Priest Kings' Control
Lemuel~~~ I hereby call the Monday night forum to order. Rules the same as every other time. ~G~ Any topics, please whisper them to Me.
Lemuel~~~ O.K. - first topic...
Was there a reason why Priest Kings controlled advancement of things so much?
Shadowglade~~~ It is my belief that the Priest Kings were very concerned with keeping their planet as pristinely natural as they could, so they prohibited higher technologies. I think it was also a way to keep the populations of humans on the planet in managable proportions. Both to keep us from overpopulating, and to keep us from killing each other off to extinction...
Kayla~~~ well I imagine that the PK's knew that from the aquistion voyages to earth they knew the abilities of the humans and thus Goreans and knew that they could advance to be competetion.
I also think they wanted to keep Gor the way it was and prevented the tech advancement knowing it would change things...
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to Master Shadowglade's response~
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ But the PK's do allow some advanced technologies...there are the stabiluzation serums, energy bulbs, tarn & slave goads, etc.
Shadowglade~~~ *nodding to both Kayla, and Lemuel* Well, as far as medicines, and energy bulbs and the like I think they allowed those things because they would not endanger human life as it was....*shrugs* but then the Priest Kings' intellect is far beyond our own, so there's no telling why they do what they do...
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ also.. perhaps.. since Gor's environment was more pure than that of Earth.. that could also be a reason why the Priest Kings controlled things so much.. the pollution factor.. ???
Errand Knight~~~ I think the double knowledge it a very important part of gor..and given the Priest Kings previous experiences with science they are concerned at what its unbridled use may do to gor
Lemuel~~~ The areas that the PK's seem most interested in limiting are transportation, long-distance communications, and (most notably) warfare.
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to jasma~ Yes, I think they are concerned with keeping Gor free from the polution caused by an industrialized society.
Ayana~~~ *listens intently to the conversation*
Errand Knight~~~ yes the science they have made available like the serum and the energy bulb is for the good of goreans
Kayla~~~ well if Goreans were able to do mass killing with bombs and guns and such who then would they rules over?... all of Us would be dead
Errand Knight~~~ I think they have seen that otherws cannot be trusted with some science and that it can distroy a planet ..such as their home ..and they wish to preserve gorean society
Shadowglade~~~ *chuckles and nods to Kayla* hence what I said before "to keep us from extinction"...
brenna{GS}~~~ *wiggling herself deeper into the furs as she smiles and listens*
wowiytanye_G_WW_sg~~~ ~kneels quietly and listens~
Errand Knight~~~ though I have often wondered why they have sent the Initiates to desroy My castes work on finding a cure for Dar-kosis
Shadowglade~~~ *chuckles* what makes you think EK that the Priest Kings only utilize the Initiates in their work?....
Kayla~~~ even Goreans need something to overcome *S*
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ And perhaps the PK's feel that those energies that would be spent on finding quicker and messier ways to kill each other would be better spent on enjoying the beauty of the world around us, or on trying to make the world we live in a better place?
Errand Knight~~~ Shadowglade: well as the Initiates provide guard for the Priest Kings at the Sardar Mountains and conrol visit it is My assumption that the Initiates were not working on theor own decision when they distroyed the research of the Pysician
Shadowglade~~~ Im sure that's probably true, however, I don't believe the Initiates have anything more to do with the Priest Kings than *I* do...*chuckles* Though I think they'd have anyone interested in believing that they do...
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to her Owner.. smiling at His words~
Errand Knight~~~ *chuckles* now that wouldnt surprise me of the bald headed badgers...they do need to invent ways of keeping themselves aloof
Lemuel~~~ ~nods agreement with SG~ I doubt the PK's would care one way or the other about diseases that affect humans so long as they aren't of epidemic proportions. now if You were developing a virus that killed Priest-Kings...~G~ *POOF* a bright blue flame, then nothing but ashes. ~G~
Errand Knight~~~ well theres nothing in My laboritory that would invite a Flame Death
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ I didn't mean to scare everybody. ~G~
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: You need to keep that slave goad hidden!
Lemuel~~~ ~laughs~ I didn't think it was big enough to be noticed... ~EG~
Errand Knight~~~ *chuckles*
well just cause a slave has seven less brains than a PK doesnt mean she cant serse its presence Captain
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Anything else on the PK's restrictions of technology?
Or maybe another topic?
Ayana~~~ *listens intently, reaching for a pad and starting to sketch the images of the Tavern*
Lemuel~~~ ~smiles listening to the silence, having a sudden urge to take out a pin and drop it~
The Game
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ O.K. - how about a show of hands as to who has any interest in learning more about kaissa?
Shadowglade~~~ *raises his hand* If you have any kind of understanding of the game, Brother, I would much like to understand it better than I do...which at the moment is not at all
Kayla~~~ I would like to learn more Lemuel...
Errand Knight~~~ pulls out the red and yellow hundred-squared board
Lemuel~~~ ~laughs~ I have very little understanding of it Myself, but I've been doing a bit of research on it just out of curiousity. I figured I could do an impromtu report on what I've discovered if people wanted to learn more about the game.
Kayla~~~ I would love to see what you have Captain *S*
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: that would be great captain ..I enjoy the game Myself
Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ Alright, I'll do My best, but keep in mind that I'm "winging" this one. ~chuckles~
Errand Knight~~~ *giving Lemuel a hand setting up the pieces*
Lemuel~~~ The first time we see anything of kaissa is in "Tarnsman" when Marlenus and Mintar are playing a game in Mintar's tent. We learn very little about the game, just the names of a few pieces, that the board is made up of 100 red and yellow squares and that:
"To some men this game is music and women. It can give them pleasure. It can help them forget. It is Ka-la-na wine, and the night on which such wine is drunk." - pg. 170
Errand Knight~~~
"Kaissa, like love and music, is it own justification. It requires no other." (Players of Gor, p.236)
Kayla~~~ nods
brenna{GS}~~~ *kneeling and listening quietly*
Lemuel~~~ As John Norman's series progresses, the game evolves and changes a bit. For instance, in "Tarnsman" there is a piece called "the City" that is a distinct and different piece from "the Home Stone" - but by "Beasts" we learn that:
"...a piece which once in Ar had been called the "City" was now identified officially as the "Home Stone" even in Ar." - pg. ??? (darn, didn't write down the page for that in My notes!)
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening about the Game~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~offering~
page 43
Errand Knight~~~ yes the object of the game is the capture of your opponents Home Stone (or City) though interestinly the Home Stone piece is not one of the orginal 20 pieces on the board when the game is started. It is, in standard rules, introduced onto the baord in the second row after the 10th move. Some Cities play a variation where it may be introduced as ones 7th move
Lemuel~~~ Anyway, the previous quote can be found at the begining of chapter 3 in "Beasts"
We are also given enough information "Beasts" to deduce the starting arrangement of the pieces as well as some hints about their movements.
Lemuel~~~ ~grins at jasma, blowing her a kiss~ Thank you My sweet.
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~smiling softly to her Master~..
Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ Aye E.K. that's one of the things that changes from "Assassin" to "Beasts" - In "Assassin" it says:
"The Home Stone, incidentally, is not officially a piece of the game, as it cannot capture, though it can move one square at a time; further, it might be of interest to note that it is not on the board at the beginning of play, but must be placed on the board on or before the seventh move, which placement counts as one move."
Whereas in "Beasts it says:
"Centius of Cos placed his Home Stone at his Ubara's Builder one. He had done this on his ninth move. It needed not be done before the tenth move."
Lemuel~~~ Also, the blow-by-blow description of the moves and other comments regarding the match between Scormus and Centius in "Beasts" would strongly suggest that the "Home Stone" must be placed in the first row of the board.
Errand Knight~~~ aye Lemuel. Standard tournament rules were agreed upon by the High Council of the Caste of Players and officially promulgated by the Merchant Caste in 10124 C.A. at the En'Kara fair. Notwithstanding some Cities like Ar still allow the introduction of the Home Stone as ones 7th move. I think thats just to give their players a strategic advantage because the Ar tournament is the most prestigeous on gor, even more so than the one played annually at the En'Kara fair
Lemuel~~~ The starting positions of the pieces per the descriptions given in "Beasts" would be as follows:
First row: Initiate, Builder, Scribe, Tarnsman, Ubara, Ubar, Tarnsman, Scribe, Builder, and Initiate.
Second row: Physician, Rider of the High Tharlarion, Spearman (six of them), Rider of the High Tharlarion, and Physician.
Note that the Ubar and Ubara positions would be reversed for the opposing side.
Errand Knight~~~ aye Lemuel ...on the first row ..it means that in playing the game one must clear a place from the first row within 9 earlier moves to allow a first row piece whether than be Initiate(2), Builder(2), Scribe(2), Tarnsman(2), Ubara or Ubar to be moved
Kyoto~~~ That does force one to a more aggressive stance, having to clear a piece from the first row, especially if you wish to have a secure placement for the homestone.
*Smiling in appreciation of the artists fine work*
Lemuel~~~ ~nods to E.K.~ Aye, and it does say that kaissa is played differently in different cities across Gor, each with it's own peculiar rules. ~S~
The most notable differences are in the way kaissa is played in the far north, in Torvaldsland:
"The Kaissa of the men of Torvaldsland is quite similar to that of the south, though certain of the pieces differ. There is, for example, not a Ubar but a Jarl, as the most powerful piece. Moreover, there is no Ubara. Instead, there is a piece called the Jarl's Woman, which is quite powerful, more so than the southern Ubara. Instead of Tarnsmen, there are two pieces called the Axes. The board has no Initiates, but there are corresponding pieces called Rune-Priests. Similarly there are no Scribes, but a piece, which moves identically, called the Singer. I thought that Andreas of Tor, a friend, of the caste of Singers, might have been pleased to learn that his caste was represented, and honored, on the boards of the north. The Spearmen moved identically with the southern Spearmen." - chapter 4
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Kyoto~ Aye, though from what I've found so far in the little bit of research I've done, it seems that the "Tarnsman" piece may be able to move much like the "Knight" of earthen chess, thus allowing an almost immediate placement of the "Home Stone".
Lemuel~~~ Oh, and that quote was from "Marauders" (remember, I told you I was winging this ~chuckles~).
Errand Knight~~~ smiles at Kyoto ..yes whilst some favour corner placement of the Home Stone because it is only open to 3 lines of attack, it is essentially a defensive move...and just as with any fight, it cannot be won on defense alone
Lemuel~~~ Another difference in the names of the pieces in the north is that the "Home Stone" is called the "Hall" in Trovaldsland.
Errand Knight~~~ I have seen though not played with assassins and spear slaves as standard pieces.
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: and likewise 5 lines of attack
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding~ I can't remember reading it, but I have heard it suggested that the "Assassin" piece was replaced by the "Physician" piece after Pa-kur's defeat in Ar.
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~really confused as she tries to picture it in her mind.. ~
Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ But of course. It is interesting to note that in the game between Scormus and Centius they both opted to place their Home Stone at Builder one, still giving them 5 avenues of freedom, but far enough into the corner that they could be easily protected.
Kyoto~~~ I'm sorry if I am repeating information, but Maza Napa has an intersting site dedicated to Kaissa, he has information relating to the movements of the pieces. Granted, this is not official...
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: a good thing then! though the Physician doesnt get to move forward, backward or sideways any amount of spaces like the two Builders
Kayla~~~ Well from one that has never understood it??? I understand even less now... LOL
Ayana~~~ *thinks it's a good thing there are no artist pieces, I shall stick to the colours of the board*
Errand Knight~~~ Kyoto: thank for that ...didnt know about it ,,,will have a look later
Lemuel~~~ ~nods to Kyoto~ Yes, I hadn't gotten that far in preparing My notes Kyoto, thanks. I also know that there is a version of the game for sale at:
The Game
Again, it's not *official*
~laughs~
Kyoto~~~ And at this site, it may be possible to buy a set...
(i didn't place the url to the site since it was the same one that Master Lemuel posted)
Errand Knight~~~ Kayla: You have never played chess?
Lemuel~~~ ~laughing at Kayla's comment~
Kyoto~~~ lol! Looks like we had the same thought, Lem
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ Great minds think alike, eh Kyoto?
Lemuel~~~ !!LOL!!
And again!
Errand Knight~~~ cant wait until i retire ..I will carve My own set
penny{Kyo}~~~ Quickie question... if a Master wanted to play Kaissa in private with a slave, could she be taught?))
Lemuel~~~ ~G~ Me too, E.K. - I have this vision in My head of what the pieces should look like. ~S~
Lemuel~~~ Answer to penny: Well, Tarl taught sura in "Assassin" so there is a precedent for it, but I don't think a Master would enjoy being beaten by His slave. ~G~
Errand Knight~~~ slaves may not play the game penny ..but I guess what master does with you in private is His business *winks*
penny{Kyo}~~~ ((heh, heh... Master does NOT like losing in board games to penny as it is, so it might not make any difference if it were Kaissa... Master and penny are board game addicts...
Lemuel~~~ ~looking to the water clock~
Well, we've run a bit long tonight...which I guess is o.k. since we started late. ~S~ At any rate...I hereby call this forum to a close. All normal Tavern rules now apply, etc. etc. ~S~
Errand Knight~~~ thanx Lemuel
Kayla~~~ LOL... but there was presedence that slaves did know how to play
and aye EK I love chess
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~finishing up the scribe work.. ~
Kayla~~~ Thanks Lemuel
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ thank You Master for allowing You girl to learn
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ It was My pleasure E/everyone. I thank you all fro coming and participating, that's what makes the forums great, plenty of warm bodies and shared thoughts. ~S~
Errand Knight~~~ Kayla: well it shouldnt be hard for you hon ..just a 10x10 board rt an 8x8 board with 20 peices in two rows rather than 2 rows of 8..and there are only six Spearmen meaning than there are two Riders of the High Tharlarion and Physicians on the front row. Most of the moves are a variation of chess ..for example, Spearmen have an initial move option of one, two or three spaces forward. After their initial move, they can only move one space at a time either forward, diagonally forward or sideways and cannot retreat
Kayla~~~ I guess you just have to be there EK...LOL