THIRD PERSON SPEECH
OriginalSandman Builder/Captain of GS 19:22:35 pm CDT
rising ....I take my Steel Measuring rod in hand and strike the Stone floor to get everyones attention..
I will Moderate tonight
the usual rules keep the PM me questions and we will put them out as we can
Keep the chatter down to a minimum to make the job easier for the scribes and keep your greetings in PM's
Now then are there any questions?
OriginalSandman Builder/Captain of GS 19:26:43 pm CDT
I have a first question:
someone asked about slaves speaking in third person:
GS slaves are taught to speak third person
Masters of course dictate how their owned property speaks but what about the pledged Masters that pledge to follow GS rules?
The SKULLSPLITTER 19:29:09 pm CDT
Hmm, in all honesty, I permit My own to speak in 1st person.
Ramses 19:30:16 pm CDT
seems we had this discussion several months ago ..
at that time I thought the the general consensus was that 3rd person was not necessary
segen mentioned the difficulty she had at times moving back and forth between 3rd and 1st person in RT
Cavy 19:30:19 pm CDT
My opinion is if the Master has pledged to follow the GS rules and the rules say that the slaves speak in third person then so be it
Laroona - Scribe 19:30:24 pm CDT
hears the question and ponders*
as I understand GS rules are for all to follow when one pledges they pledge to abide by the rules and decisions
third person as I understand was introduced to differentiate between Free and slaves...
on the other hand third person is considered a punishment
I also believe the use of A/all, He/he etc: is not used in GS as it more a BDSM style of speech
my two bits worth
Ulrich 19:33:17 pm CDT
Well there are a couple of exceptions to the rule, unless they are a white silk they can speak 1st person in the kennels and I believe forum room.
I always have mine speak in third person though. Helps them remember who
they are.
aurora{Ulrich}-t 19:34:08 pm CDT
the girl's Master insists His property use third person speech
the arguments presented at previous forums were that third person speech was never used in the books...and aye slaves were having some difficulty with it in GS and slipping and using it in r/t
but it also proves confusing to new slaves...and GS slaves are trained to use third person speech...it is easily dropped when they become owned and their Masters allow them to use first person...
malia{Jake} 19:34:08 pm CDT
my last 3 personal Masters, all pledged to GS at one point allowed me to speak in 1st person, but when in GS i did my best to speak in 3rd
Laroona - Scribe 19:35:29 pm CDT
Ulrich you are correct first is permitted in Forum and kennels forgot that LOL
from the slaves rules
"Use of Slave Language
Slaves never speak of themselves in "first-person" except for the slave kennels and the forum room, white silk slaves ALWAYS speak in third person though. An exception to this is when the ‘i’ is used in the slave litany or when personal slaves use ‘my Master’. A slave, when describing her actions, will always say something such as: "this girl kneels" or "vella kneels". Slaves will always speak in third-person while in the Tavern, Bath House, Training Yard and the Piazza. The first offence should carry a warning. After that, punishment will depend upon whichever Free Person wishes to enforce this Rule.
Gorean Shores does not use the supposed "old gorean language" like "jashi or niden" as that is not from the John Norman books.... but gorean words from the books are encouraged (see dictionary) Remember that GS is situated in Port Kar so wagon people or savage language would not be heard here. "
aurora{Ulrich}-t 19:35:57 pm CDT
this one has noticed recent girls returning after many years still use 3rd person something obviously they learnt and followed
{Cavy}nassy 19:36:12 pm CDT
this girls Master present and past have required her to follow the GS rules..*shrugs*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:37:47 pm CDT
*until the rules are changed that is how the slaves will speak?*
jessenia{Rm} 19:39:16 pm CDT
is the actual question whether or not personal owned slaves should follow the GS rules when in GS... even if their Master permits them to speak in 1st?
jessenia{Rm} 19:40:08 pm CDT
or should all speak 3rd person no matter the silk color or what their Master
permits when in GS?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:42:02 pm CDT
*it depends on the owner jesse,if the slave has been told to speak in first all the time then the slave needs to post it on the boards for all to see so the Free know it S*
Ramses 19:42:12 pm CDT
personally I have no real preference
but will abide by whatever is decided
we need stop equivocating though
Laroona - Scribe 19:43:19 pm CDT
Have gone through all the rules/protocols/decisions and not seen any changes... but I admit it was a quick look LOL
Ramses 19:45:15 pm CDT
*G*
clearly no rules changes were made Laroona, but when this was last discussed I believe it was agreed it was pretty much up to the individual Master how their private slaves were to speak
{Cavy}nassy 19:47:22 pm CDT
then Master Ramses this girl agrees with Master Forest, it has to be posted for the Free to see so that They know the girl is following her Masters rules..
shadow{Ulrich} 19:47:51 pm CDT
as shadow recalls not too long ago on the corks a Master pulled His pledge due to the fact that He was told by a Captain that a girl in GS talks 3rd person.. she recalls who the slave was but not the Master.. if this triggers a memory to anyone.. *smiles*
Laroona - Scribe 19:48:04 pm CDT
Ramses LOL I am lost LOL
Maybe Council should clarify the rules *S*
jessenia{Rm} 19:48:50 pm CDT
so perhaps personally owned slaves that are allowed to speak 1st person should at that to their restriction thread?
Ramses 19:49:39 pm CDT
Laroona, I agree we have these discussions in Forum but then get no follow-up
Laroona - Scribe 19:50:25 pm CDT
I will undertake to have this followed up *S*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:50:40 pm CDT
*it would be so jesse and it was discussed by the council and rules that it would remain as third person last time it was discussed at forum?*
Kronan 19:50:45 pm CDT
make My gor your Gor?
be well all
OriginalSandman Builder/Captain of GS 19:50:58 pm CDT
nodding I will make a note to circulate it before he rest of the Council
The SKULLSPLITTER 19:51:27 pm CDT
The Rules have not been changed Laroona. Unless it has been stated that it
has been changed, then it is as it was before.
In all honesty, there are a few of the GS rules that are pretty much out of
the loop which probably goes back to the cross-overs from BDSM orientated chat and merging of rules for RP purposes.
This is a Rule which could easily be adopted to suit a more modern and
Gorean line of thinking, afterall, one of the primary importances in
Master/slave relationships is the psychology of their natures, and it is
more beneficial for a slave to react instinctively (i.e. revert to 3rd
person when in a state of submissive conciousness) than react for the sake
of reacting without any implication of inner feeling (i.e. the stepford
slave instinct).
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:51:44 pm CDT
*it would depend on the owner shadow, if the slave has been told to speak in first or third then that is what she speaks in and the council will abide by
it*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:56:24 pm CDT
*the rules only cover GS slaves,so maybe we should make an amend saying that private slaves follow their owners wishes*
Laroona - Scribe 19:56:27 pm CDT
IMO
if slaves act as slaves and respect a Free then there should be no problems
but as it has been said a lot of the rules do need an overhaul *S*
Ulrich 19:58:46 pm CDT
I thought that at first glance too EF, but as I read it closer, the wording
implies that personally owned slaves in GS are covered by this rule.
An excerpt below:
An exception to this is when the ?i? is used in the slave litany or when
personal slaves use ?my Master?.
To me, that implies the rule is for ALL slaves in GS. But of course it could
be tweaked a bit.
Ramses 20:00:11 pm CDT
EF, I think it DOES need to be clarified one way or another
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:00:12 pm CDT
*I think most think that as well Ulrich,so maybe we can fix it so it only
applies to GS slaves?*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:00:52 pm CDT
*well I am sure we can get it changed if the council approves it S?*
Laroona - Scribe 20:00:57 pm CDT
it is easy fixed in the rules once Council decide what is what LOL
Cavy 20:03:21 pm CDT
if that rule is applied to GS slaves only....then the restriction should be
posted that her Master requires her to speak in third person?
The SKULLSPLITTER 20:05:12 pm CDT
I'm actually going to be proposing 5 rule changes anyway to the council, and this was one of them, though for different reasons than is being discussed right now. As Sandman said, we can circulate this one around the council and have it more "concrete" for you, and hopefully that will be that on the topic.
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:05:15 pm CDT
*if it is a private slave and the owner wishes them to speak in first person
then it should be posted on the restriction board Cavy S*
The SKULLSPLITTER 20:05:40 pm CDT
Aye, Cavy.
Cavy 20:05:58 pm CDT
aye EF
OriginalSandman Builder/Captain of GS 20:07:52 pm CDT
nodding good discussion folks .. I will pose the following question to the
Council:
Should Privately owned slaves of Masters pledged to GS be required to speak in Third Person even if their Masters allow them to speak in First person.. or My The Master's decided for themselves how their own slaves speak
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:10:14 pm CDT
*I think it would depend on the owner as they own the slave and GS always
honours the owners wishes of their slaves?*
shadow{Ulrich} 20:10:21 pm CDT
guess shadow is confused
cause it wasn't that long ago a slave and her Master left GS
because a Captain did say slaves in GS speek 3rd..
this *did* happen on the corks..
maybe though it was just a few months or more back, not on the
new board.. so shadow was unaware of a rule change anywhere and
has to wonder why with this Master and slave the issue was pushed so hard.. ?
but only shadow remembers..
sen 20:11:51 pm CDT
sen remembers that shadow.
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:11:53 pm CDT
*thats why it needs to be clarified shadow so it doesn't happen again S*
The SKULLSPLITTER 20:12:09 pm CDT
Ok so who left because of that?
Laroona - Scribe 20:12:15 pm CDT
shadow I do not recall that *S*
anyway it is being handled now *S*
shadow{Ulrich} 20:13:16 pm CDT
~smiles to sen glad shadow isn't crazy.. ~
not to be rude Master Forest, but it was clarified *that* day and the Master
pulled His pledge
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:14:06 pm CDT
*maybe by the Captain, shadow, but it needs to be clarified in the rules*
Ramses 20:14:07 pm CDT
nods in agreement with EF
shadow{Ulrich} 20:14:49 pm CDT
shadow will whisper the name to You Jarl Skullsplitter if You wish but since
it seems to not really be public knowledge she doesn't wish to make it so
*s*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:16:20 pm CDT
*even some Captains can take rules different to others*
Cavy 20:16:46 pm CDT
I wish to ask a question to clarify this...a slave doesnt have to speak in
3rd person in the kennels or forum?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:16:50 pm CDT
*but if it states that it is for GS slaves only then it can't be taken any
other way S*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:17:32 pm CDT
*thats true Cavy S*
Cavy 20:18:26 pm CDT
ok but if You look down the posts all slaves have spoken in 3rd person by choice it would seem
jessenia{Rm} 20:18:47 pm CDT
but then that reverts back to what i believe the actual question is..
if GS slaves are told to speak in 3rd person... should the slaves of a PLEDGED Man.. who has sworn to uphold the rules of GS be expected to follow the GS rules.... and speak 3rd person as well...
unless i'm confused on what the question was.. which at this point is very possible
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:19:31 pm CDT
*well it is up to the slaves what they speak in here Cavy and I suppose most would still speak in third because they are used to it S*
Laroona - Scribe 20:20:08 pm CDT
LOL I can see a lot of confusion unless the slave has her restrictions or non restrictions posted on the boards to cover her arse so to speak
shadow{Ulrich} 20:20:12 pm CDT
*nods and smiles at Master Cavy*
shadow believes *online* that is one of many things that help a slave know here place and feel her slavery.. she could go on and on but think she has spoke too much already
blckrose{Zor} 20:20:29 pm CDT
this one speaks this way out of honor and respect for my Master
sen 20:21:22 pm CDT
~soft smile to Master Cavy~
sen is simply used to it Master, she has spoken in third person. When she was...collared for the long time she was it was expected, so it's simply in her to do so. It's a way for sen to remember her place, to feel her place each time she speaks it.
Cavy 20:21:27 pm CDT
ok then My point is why change what they are used to if they are doing it comfortably and by their own accord
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:22:40 pm CDT
*well to answer that ? jesse,it would depend on the owner,They might like having Their slave speak in first and if They wished it in GS the council would honour Their wish but it would need to be posted on the restriction board S*
Laroona - Scribe 20:22:48 pm CDT
I know the older slaves and those who return will naturally speak in third some of the newer ones will not once out of a GS collar
(hope I make sense)
Ulrich 20:23:44 pm CDT
Aye Cavy Mine are taught to speak third person to keep them in their place, so I don't expect to hear them speak otherwise.
petala~{SW~G} 20:23:59 pm CDT
a comment/question if allowed:
is it really threatening to Free for slaves to use 1st person speech? slavery is from within as is being Free, so each knows their place without worry of the use of i, me, my ... yes? afterall, we are adults
shadow{Ulrich} 20:24:48 pm CDT
so guess shadow is really confused..
why change it now??
why change what we as slave know?
Cavy 20:25:08 pm CDT
aye Ulrich I agree with You
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:25:14 pm CDT
*it is not being changed Cavy, it just needs to be clarified a bit better so it is for GS slaves only unless the owner wishes them to speak in other person?*
The SKULLSPLITTER 20:25:17 pm CDT
Not all are doing it Cavy, but again, I think the whole point here is that IF the rule was to be changed where it was only a "requirement" of GS slaves, then it gives more leeway for a Man to have his own preferences respected without upsetting his pledge, or whatever it was that was mentioned before about someone getting pissy about the rule. If a slave chooses to talk that way when she is given the choice of 1st, or 3rd, then it is not going to make a difference or have any negative impact. Some Men prefer their slaves to speak in 3rd person all the time, so it is going to make no difference there either. So the change would not really affect those who are comfortable in that.
sen 20:26:09 pm CDT
petala, sen doesn't believe it's threatening. don't believe it's that at all, it's simply respect and out of the wish for the Free. If that is what pleases them, then why question?
Cavy 20:29:05 pm CDT
in that case it doesnt affect Me....nassy and carrieann WILL speak in third person....
{Cavy}nassy 20:29:11 pm CDT
so that this one totally understands ...
her Master requires her to speak in 3rd person He is or will be pledged, in what the girl read in the rule it therefore requires her to speak 3rd person because as a Pledged Member He has agreed to follow the rules of GS..
so if that rule is changed, then nassy would need to go and modify her restrictions on the board to indictate that her Master requires her to speak in 3rd person..so as she would not get in trouble?
thinks she too is as confused as t he other girls..
The SKULLSPLITTER 20:29:34 pm CDT
I do not define how much of a slave a girl is in My collar by her use of personal view pointing speech. I find it somewhat odd that many here base their slavery, or ownership on a girl by that. I can tell you now that 9.9 times out of 10, if I am pissed at one of My girls, she will "naturally" revert to 3rd person automatically, not by My request, because that is simply their natural fetis/defensive and submissive instinct coming into play - you wouldn't be able to tell the difference much in a girl that speaks that way 24/7 because it is drilled into her. But again, merely an opinion.
petala~{SW~G} 20:29:46 pm CDT
sen - but if the point is to follow the books ... then perhaps it does matter on some level what is done and not done?
Cavy 20:30:18 pm CDT
thats what I was asking earlier nassy
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:31:04 pm CDT
*not really nassy, if your Master wishes you to speak in third then you don't have to change your restrictions, it is only for the slaves that Their owners wish for them to speak in first?*
The SKULLSPLITTER 20:31:44 pm CDT
It's not rocket science - what is there to be confused about?
There is no rule change - at present - but the council will discuss it I am sure, and if a change is made, the people will be made aware, and as such, you can then modify your restrictions.
Cavy}nassy 20:31:49 pm CDT
nods at her Master girl is just making sure she has got some sense of what has happened here Master...
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:32:04 pm CDT
*but there are some things that We don't follow in the books petala S*
sen 20:32:28 pm CDT
petala, sen does know that first speech was in the books. sen would talk first with her Master plenty of times, third speech she would revert back to when she was in trouble..just an instinct of hers. But again, if it pleases the Free..does it matter? If it was in the books or not? slaves are here to please the Free, to please your Owner.
petala~{SW~G} 20:32:50 pm CDT
~ softly ~
yes, Master ...
~ pretty eyes twinkle to You ~
shadow{Ulrich} 20:33:07 pm CDT
it was always shadow's understanding that if a girl's Master is pledge to GS His girl will follow the rules of GS.. and that is why when You read on the slave pages each item doesn't state this includes personally owned slaves.. shadow thought a girl follows the rules to her Master's home
Cavy}nassy 20:33:47 pm CDT
thank You Master Forest
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:34:36 pm CDT
*well if the rules are hard to understand sometimes shadow, just follow them until you find out what is right?*
shadow{Ulrich} 20:35:27 pm CDT
they are not hard for shadow to follow, Master Forest, that is not what the girl said..
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:36:27 pm CDT
*well all girls will follow the GS rules unless stated by their owners shadow S*
The SKULLSPLITTER 20:37:44 pm CDT
Ok so what is the problem exactly shadow? At present, all girls are required to speak in 3rd, so you are following the rules.
At present, some wish that to change - you gave the example of a pledge leaving over it.
So, if we changed it, to give owners the CHOICE, then it only affects the owners, not you, because you are only complying by your owners decision anyway. I couldn't give a shit if an owner makes their girl bark 24/7, it is up to them at the end of the day, but I really don't want to talk about this for another 90 minutes.
Is the general populous here happy with Sandmans question he was going to put forth to the council for those who asked?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:38:41 pm CDT
*so true Thorfinn and I agree with the question S*
Ramses 20:38:46 pm CDT
Thorfinn, I am happy with it
Laroona - Scribe 20:42:16 pm CDT
I am happy
have been for some time LOL
shadow{Ulrich} 20:42:55 pm CDT
shadow didn't say there was a problem with the question Jarl Skullsplitter, shadow will hush.. she was under the impression that this was a forum and this girl was merely giving her opinions..
blckrose{Zor} 20:43:02 pm CDT
rose softly nods in agreement
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:44:31 pm CDT
*your opinions are fine shadow, its just that it is going around in circles at the moment S*
Laroona - Scribe 20:46:01 pm CDT
**waiting for the next topic*
The SKULLSPLITTER 20:46:19 pm CDT
This IS a forum shadow. But everything has pretty much been laid out and now it is starting to go around to the start of the topic again when a proposition was reached 35 minutes ago. I'm just a grumpy fucker because it is 2:30am for Me and I am twiddling my thumbs wondering where else this topic can go - some are happy with 3rd - some aint - so an option has been given to suit everyone and so far no one has directly opposed it.
OriginalSandman Builder/Captain of GS 20:47:49 pm CDT
does anyone have a new topic?
OriginalSandman Builder/Captain of GS 20:55:02 pm CDT
listening,, are there no more topics for the short time we have left
OriginalSandman Builder/Captain of GS 21:00:16 pm CDT
in that case forum is closed,, I think all who participated tonight