Present
Sandman
Ramses
Dak
Bretval
Kazar
Lita
snowrose
zoya
karma
natira
flicka
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:27:52 pm CST
ok, lets get started
the usual rules will apply
if you have a topic whisper to Me
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:32:59 pm CST
ok, I have a topic, but before I post it
I want to apologize for Friday night
I was unable to be there for sparring as I had lost power due to the storm that hit New England
I have heard that a few showed up but the event did not go off as planned
I should be able to be there this coming Friday
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:33:57 pm CST
now for the topic:
So you belong to a chain....
Quotes For This Week
"As slaves we are told repeatedly that we are never to be jealous of our sisters; that we should never compare or measure what we are allowed with our Master against what a sister may be getting from that same Master. In this girl's experience, it is very easy to talk the talk, but very difficult to learn to walk the walk. she was surfing recently through Gorean websites and found the following statement on several different sites: Jealousy and possessiveness have killed more slaves than disobedience. Jealousy comes in many forms; jealousy of a Master's affections for a sister; jealousy of a Master's love for His FC; jealousy of a sister's skill in serving; jealousy of a sister's popularity among other slaves or the Free. For purposes of this essay, to keep the length manageable, this girl will speak of the jealousy a slave may feel toward her sisters for the Master's time and attention; the competition slaves feel for the love of their Master. This girl knows we are all human and have a lot to learn and a lot to unlearn when we become Gorean slaves. A slave must work to overcome those natural urges to "stake her claim" to the Man and resist thinking of Master as a "boyfriend." It is a Master's right to have many slaves; to take others at His whim.
I had feared, even from the beginning, that she would become excessively popular. My master was, apparently, much taken with her. I hated her. Eta, too, did not regard her with unusual affection. (Slavegirl of Gor, pg 135) "I do not know," she smiles. "Perhaps it is because I am not so beautiful and desirable. Perhaps it is because men are so fond of them. Perhaps I am jealous of their beauty and desirability, and am envious because they, and not I, are found so attractive by men." "It is natural for the ugly to find an error in beauty," I said.
(Explorers of Gor pg. 196)
The concept of "happy Master equals happy slave" is a difficult one to truly understand and embrace for a slave. Given the things we are taught on urth, learning to share a Master's time and affection is a hard fought lesson. Selflessness does not come easy. This girl used to pout and question during those times her Master gave His attention and time to others. she was consumed with pettiness and insecurity and would send Him PMs or Qs repeatedly asking if she had displeased in some way. Rather than being pleasing, her whining and attempts at manipulation only pushed her Master further away.
This girl struggled for months, earned punishments, shed oceans of tears and had many honest, often painful, talks with an FW she respects and admires greatly. she still does not know exactly what it was that brought the true meaning of selflessness to full awareness for her. But, she has learned to be secure in her Master, to cherish what she has with Him and to simply be happy when He has the time to relax and enjoy one of His girls. It no longer matters to her who that slave might be. she welcomes with open arms and heart any and all that He may choose to add to His chain; and she helps those sisters in whatever way she can to learn His kolar.
"The life of a female slave," he said, "is a life wholly given over to love. It is not a compromised life. It is not one of those lives which is part this, and part that. It is a total way of life, a total life... There are no bargains made with her, no arrangements."
(Mercenaries of Gor, pg 435)
- Entire piece from GorChat Gazette Archives
Questions
1) As an owner of a slave, do you allow your slaves to express envy or jealousy and what do you consider to be appropriate?
2) As a slave, if you are allowed to express your jealousy, how do you do it?
3) How important are emotions in your rp? Why?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:34:36 pm CST
she looks forward Master Ramses
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:35:46 pm CST
hmmm, this will be interesting
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:36:37 pm CST
who is the slave that is quoted
Lita, Physician 19:39:45 pm CST
I son't recall offhand which slave was speaking, snow. You'd have to look it up in the book. The source is given.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:40:36 pm CST
no, she meant the online slave...guess it was anonymous
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:41:45 pm CST
in My case when I have owned a slave I tried to discourage any open displays fo jealousy that is no to say I was successful, in that it clearly simmered beneath the surface
natira{GS} 19:41:52 pm CST
there has been very few times in her life on Gor that she has actually felt jealousy. and even then she has tried not to show it because to her showing jealousy is petty and at times childish depending on how it is shown. She might use her jealousy to urge her to do better at gaining the Masters attention but in the end she is on the Masters chain for a reason. If He didn't want her, she wouldn't remain on the chain. She can't say she never feels the emotion because that would be a lie but it is rare that the emotion actually affects her to the point of action. ~laughs~
she feels that emotions are very important in her rp because emotions make the actions feel and seem more realistic than just words on a screen. it shows the depth of her slavery she thinks
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:42:37 pm CST
it is unrealistic to think it won't Master Ramses..it's an unnatural state
Dak 19:43:09 pm CST
I will council with them on it, but have had many that wanted to possess the Master, and couldn't work it out , so they left what is a Master if the slave gets her way !
Lita, Physician 19:43:28 pm CST
yes it was, snow
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:44:28 pm CST
*smiles at natira's words ...
Lita, Physician 19:44:52 pm CST
This is true, Dak. However what is a Master if He allows HIs slave to leave just because she can't "own" Him and wants to find ONe sh can?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:44:59 pm CST
as to the 3rd question, her emotions are always in play...she feels it all...what would be the point of coming and typing words...she thinks most slave feel it too
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:45:05 pm CST
Dak, I agree but what I have found is that it goes underground perceptions,. slights, back handed comments and such
Dak 19:45:56 pm CST
most usually leave Gor , becuz the figure it is that way will all Masters
Dak 19:47:19 pm CST
I'm not sure I've experienced that , but maybe I just don't recognize it !
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:47:25 pm CST
I think that's true as well, DAk
karma[Q] 19:49:11 pm CST
karma thinks if a slaves belly is to please her Master, then there really is no place for jelousy as all it brings is pain to all.
not to say that it doesnt exist...its just not healthy
Dak 19:49:17 pm CST
well, Lita, I am online to enjoy My time and if a slave is making My time miserable I would rather relieve her of My kolar, than continue it !
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:52:36 pm CST
agrees with both natira and snow abut question #3 it obvious to Me whan a slave feels that way
but that can also be trap if the slave is not aware of her emotions and potentially her jealousy
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:53:28 pm CST
yes Master Ramses...that too is very true...it's a fine balance
natira{GS} 19:54:43 pm CST
that is true Master Ramses. however, with that a slave must be careful when not trying to show her emotions in her rp because then it looks like she doesn't really want to do it. that she doesn't want to be here. so it is one of those things that natira believes is use her emotions while rping but be mature enough to know how and when she needs to hold back a little
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:57:50 pm CST
natira, I agree its a fine line to walk
SM-Comfortably numb (In memorium of rose4u) 20:01:39 pm CST
Do these questions count in general, or only in GS, Ramses?
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:03:02 pm CST
SM, we are focused on GS, but they apply in any Gorean relationship and in any D/s relationship really
SM-Comfortably numb (In memorium of rose4u) 20:05:16 pm CST
Well if it's in general, I could chime in a bit
Dak 20:05:57 pm CST
nothing is general about Gor it is by the books
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:06:25 pm CST
please do SM
that is why we are here
SM-Comfortably numb (In memorium of rose4u) 20:09:48 pm CST
Back when I first joined PS......waaaaaay back when. I did have two girls collared to me. They both weren't put one over the other, but one started feeling like she was being treated less and less than the other. And actually, it wasn't jealousy between them, they both loved and adored another. The one who felt she was being more in the forefront talked with me, and we agreed that the collar should come off her.
I think what really is a key issue, wether in Gor, rp, or any D/s situation, is communication. If you don't talk with one another, and just assume things, you will find things going south very fast.
Lita, Physician 20:11:49 pm CST
Good point SM. Even the books say that Masters took great pleasure in talking to Their slaves, and if You talk enough, everything will come out eventually.
natira{GS} 20:12:59 pm CST
she agrees. it doesn't matter what dynamic one is in, communication is very important for things to work out well
SM-Comfortably numb (In memorium of rose4u) 20:13:27 pm CST
If You don't talk enough tho.....Wwho is at fault for explosions? Is it the Master for trying to talk, or the slave for not saying a thing?
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:13:34 pm CST
agrees with SM ... but Dak is also correct
that communication may lead to one or both or all leaving Gor
Dak 20:13:50 pm CST
I spend hours talking with My slaves, always have , it s best to get them talking and just listen to them !
natira{GS} 20:15:11 pm CST
Master Shadow, natira thinks both parties are at least partially responsible for the rift if one or both are not communicating enough. she doesn't think that the blame should fall solely on one or the other
SM-Comfortably numb (In memorium of rose4u) 20:16:31 pm CST
But if Master or slave are talking, -trying- to communicate, but the words are falling on deaf, nonresponsive ears, what choice does one have, natira?
natira{GS} 20:16:35 pm CST
but riding on that comment as well is this..the slave needs to know how and when to approach the Master, and the Master needs to allow the communication because sometimes thats the only way He will truly know how the slave is feeling. it is very much a give and take
Lita, Physician 20:17:17 pm CST
Any failure in the relationship is always the slave's fault. And Ramses, if it comes to one, both, or all leaving Gor, perhaps that is an indication that they were not really meant for Gor, and have not really grasped what Gor means. Not everyone is cut out for Gor.
Dak 20:18:15 pm CST
I will agree with that, Lita!
natira{GS} 20:18:17 pm CST
if that is the case then yes the one who refuses to listen is mostly to blame. but what brought that about? was it a failure in the beginning to bring communication into play? or was it a flaw of the one not listening to begin with. it is better one thinks, for both to take the responsibility instead of throwing blame everywhere else
Lita, Physician 20:18:51 pm CST
In the books, if a Master and slave couldn't deal with each other properly, He simply sold her. Maybe Someone Else could deal with her.
SM-Comfortably numb (In memorium of rose4u) 20:20:00 pm CST
And what if the slave chooses, instead of talking, to run?
natira{GS} 20:20:31 pm CST
Mistress Lita, natira respectfully disagrees with that statement of it always being the slaves fault. natira was once owned by a Master years ago and no matter what she tried to communicate with Him, He refused to hear what she was saying. In the end she was miserable and begged release. was the failure then natiras fault? even though she did everything possible to communicate and work things out possitively?
Lita, Physician 20:20:32 pm CST
natira, a Master is not required to listen to HIs slave. Many took pleasure in doing so, but, as He is Free, if One did not, it is simply "tough titty" for the slave.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:20:43 pm CST
Lita, I agree completely
natira{GS} 20:21:04 pm CST
then the slave is a coward Master Shadow and the fault does not fall to the Master
Dak 20:21:27 pm CST
that's why I choose to unkolar rather than have a slave run !
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:21:39 pm CST
sometimes it's just the nature of a person to feel aggrieved, even if the situation doesn't warrant it...and it's not the other peoples' fault...as Mistress said, Gor isn't for everyone..many girls come expecting Gor to change to suit their needs, not the other way round
SM-Comfortably numb (In memorium of rose4u) 20:22:07 pm CST
But still, Ramses, Dak, Lita, doesn't it say something about the Master if He is willing to talk and listen?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:22:58 pm CST
snow agrees too Mistress Lita...it Gor
natira{GS} 20:22:59 pm CST
ok from a Gor point of view yes that is true ~smiles~ the slave is the lesser being therefore she must deal with what is thrown at her and not complain about it
Dak 20:23:06 pm CST
you can talk and listen, but in the end, Gor is Gor, and that says it all !
Lita, Physician 20:23:41 pm CST
SM, if a slave chooses to run, then she is declared a runaway. In the books, she was killed when caught. on-line, she may be killed or simply expelled from the home, and/or ignored. r/t, One would declare her "persona non grata", and ignore her existance totally, even when she wants to come back. And usually they do want to come back sooner or later.
SM-Comfortably numb (In memorium of rose4u) 20:23:50 pm CST
Agreed, Dak.
natira{GS} 20:25:22 pm CST
natira has been accused often times of being far too opinionated as a slave ~laughs softly~ perhaps thats why she ends up being punished heehee
Lita, Physician 20:25:35 pm CST
Yes, it does, Shadow Master. Even more because He doesn't HAVE to. But, He needs to be careful that in talking to and listening to His slave, He does not become "topped from the bottom", as it were.
Dak 20:26:51 pm CST
even in the books, slaves would try to manipulate the Master, andsoon find out that wasn't a good plan !
Bretval, Merchant 20:27:54 pm CST
I am with you natira... if a Master cannot take the time to care for a slave He should let them go
natira{GS} 20:29:13 pm CST
its one of those things that she has heard rt...if you like your toy why break it? so one supposes she puts that saying into Gor Master and slave interactions.