WHEN SHOULD SLAVES SPEAK
Rollo_the_Ax 19:15:17 CST
We may as well get things going....... I call the forum to order..... So from
this point on, please follow the rules ..... no more open greetings... any
private conversations or * small talk * should be done in whispers so as to NOT
require the scribes to deal with it..... anybody with a topic they wish
discussed can PM it to Me and we will get to any/all of them as time permits ...
topaz-{Rast's_girl} 19:16:26 CST
yes Mistress...topaz knows, and please any punishment You wish, she will do,
with permission from her Master of course..or You may email Him directly..
*eyes lowered*
Rollo_the_Ax 19:20:19 CST
Okay.....we have a winner for our first topic.....LOL... it is this ...* when
should a slave speak? should slaves interrupt Free's conversation and have input
to the conversation without permission? *
Jaegers_kath 19:24:14 CST
Well kath was hoping a Free would speak first, but as a slave, girl does not
think the conversation of the Free should be interrupted...if the Free want to
include the slave, they will do so and then a girl is free to talk. Small
comments may be made...such as kneeling silently, awaiting command etc....just
to make a girl's presence known, but not interrupting. girl has been punished
before jumping into a conversation of the Free. A side comment...boisterous
slaves overtaking the room with their talk or play is a bad idea also.
Rollo_the_Ax 19:25:31 CST
In * My * personal opinion, this issue can fall into two categories .... the
first, simply open forums where the topic is general issues where the opinions
of others are more or less general public matters.....in THIS case I se no big
deal... the second, private words on a specific issue that others are
discussing....in THIS case I feel that not only slaves but even Free should ask
to join in on it out of simple common courtesy...
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 19:25:51 CST
*that is true kath, but I have seen a slave interrupt some Free while they were
talking and the slave's master did not do anything about it, I think it comes
down to the owner itself S*
Laroona 19:27:05 CST
kath well put *S*
My thoughts exactly
If I am having a conversation with other Free and desire salves input I will ask
for it... or the other Free
~Mariposa~ 19:28:38 CST
Isn't true in most Alpha dominated conversation a slave has to wait to be
acknowledge by the senior male in the room, if not the FW to be invited into a
conversation, however she posts her serves, her waiting to give and offer
pleasures, to be the slave that she has been destined to be, but to interrupt a
conversation and take part, would be an interruption of cultural norms.
Laroona 19:32:21 CST
Captain Rollo *S*
it would also apply to FW interrupting FM talking *S*
Rollo_the_Ax 19:33:11 CST
It may not be * gorean * in its context, but I firmly believe that what I was
taught as a child still stands as a truism..... * Good manners cost NOTHING, but
are worth the world....* be you slave or free..... you should still TRY to deal
with ALL others in a manner that is proper and respectful .....until such time
as THEY change the rules of engagement
Ramses 19:36:39 CST
thinking that every thing I need to know I learned in kindergarten ..*G*
Rollo_the_Ax 19:40:04 CST
As in many/all things.... there will always be those that for some reason see
themselves ABOVE the rules set for others... for ANY slave to * jump in *
such.... or do anything that they feel that they could be punished for... but
TRY to pull a CYA ( cover your ASS ) on the matter, knowing FULL WELL, that* if
you think I have done wrong, contact my Master and he will punish me * is simply
mouthing the words KNOWING that their master will let them get away with MURDER
is nothing but an insult .....to ALL !!!! Free and other slaves as well.....
Kyoto 19:41:37 CST
I have seen slaves attempt to bypass the "jumping into conversation" prohibition
by saying they are "thinking" something that is, in their mind, relevant. That
is just as bad.
Laroona 19:43:17 CST
Captain Kyoto is not thinking the same as speaking?
Kyoto 19:44:43 CST
In this context, yes, Laroona.
Ramses 19:45:12 CST
I'd have to agree with Kyoto
{Ruilans_ariel} 19:46:00 CST
may ariel please get clarification on something?
Laroona 19:46:26 CST
thank you Captain Kyoto *S*
Rollo_the_Ax 19:46:31 CST
In this * on-line * chat format that we all share, once the words are typed and
posted, they are said for ALL to see..... it is a major * cop out * for ANY
person to try and pull that * just thinking to myself * crap !!!!! A THOUGHT is
inside your head.....once put outside of your head, it is a statement .......no
if's, and's, or maybes.
Rollo_the_Ax 19:47:15 CST
yes, ariel...what do you need made clear ??
Sandman,,Builder_ 19:47:58 CST
my question would be how do you define interruption,, for me the line would be,,
a slave offering service or make general comments is not interrupting,, failing
to do so could require punishment.. but a slave should not inject herself in
direct conversations between the Free,, that would be interrupting
{Ruilans_ariel} 19:48:50 CST
just want to make sure that ari has this correct. it is not intended to be
snotty or snide, i'm simply confused.
ok.. i'm not to interrupt the Free when they are speaking together. i understand
that. however, i'm also not to be boisterous when free are talking amongst
themselves? does this include conversation with others slaves? or is ariel to
simply sit quietly until.... until what?
{Ruilans_ariel} 19:49:39 CST
thank You Master Sandman.. that is more in line with what ariel was thinking but
not able to express properly. what exactly is interruption?
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 19:49:45 CST
*Your definition, would be an interruption Sandman S*
Kyoto 19:49:51 CST
Agreed, Sandman.
Rollo_the_Ax 19:51:40 CST
ariel, I would say that it in NO WAY means that slaves can hold their own
conversations between themselves.... that would be a separate item.... and could
in no way be seen as interrupting somebody else simply by being in the same room
and speaking to somebody else.....
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 19:51:51 CST
*conversation with other slaves is fine ariel S, interruption is when a slave
butts into a conversation between the Free without permission S*
Laroona 19:52:48 CST
well defined Sandman *S*
{Ruilans_ariel} 19:53:24 CST
ok... thank You Master Rollo. so, to clarify, ariel is to come into the tavern,
offer service and then not speak. am i understanding this correctly?
{Ruilans_ariel} 19:53:56 CST
Thank You Master Forest. ariel believes that she misunderstood Master Rollo's
last post.
Rollo_the_Ax 19:54:02 CST
slaves are REQUIRED to offer service... so THAT could NOT really be seen as *
interrupting *... they are just following orders.......
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 19:54:22 CST
*if the Free are talking, yes ariel, unless you are talking to other slaves S*
{Ruilans_ariel} 19:55:21 CST
thank You Master Forest and Master Rollo. ariel is clear now.
Rollo_the_Ax 19:56:30 CST
Sorry, ariel and everybody else.......I see now that I left out a VERY important
* NOT * from that answer to ariel....." ariel, I would say that it in NO WAY
means that slaves can *** NOT *** hold their own conversations between
themselves.... that would be a separate item.... and could in no way be seen as
interrupting somebody else simply by being in the same room and speaking to
somebody else.....
{Ruilans_ariel} 19:57:06 CST
thank You for the clarification Master Rollo. ariel is relieved. *s*
Ramses 19:58:02 CST
was wondering if Rollo really meant that
Rollo_the_Ax 20:02:01 CST
Well, folks..... are there any other points on this issue that need discussed
??? and if not, does anybody else have another topic they wish to cover ?????
NON GS PATRONS – COURTESY – HOW MUCH?
ALSO PUNISHMENT
Rollo_the_Ax 20:07:43 CST
Okay...our next topic is this....* How much coutesy need be offered to a Free
who is not Pledged to GS, but has some obvious understanding of Gor, so NOT an
HNG.
Both from the Free and the slaves. *S*** ?????
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:09:10 CST
i give as much curteousy as a pledged member of GS. like You said early Master
Rollo, it doesn't cost ariel anything to be polite or kind.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:09:17 CST
*courtesy achieved as courtesy is granted S*
Laroona 20:09:25 CST
Captain Rollo I would hope that we all afford newcomers help and courtesy and
make them feel welcome to our Home and hope that they will soon be a member of
this great place *S*
alyena_{GS} 20:09:31 CST
alyena thinks that if the Free seems to have real knowledge of Gor then a slave
should certainly treat Them with as much respect as she does Those pledged to
GS...
zara_A_ 20:10:26 CST
<= speaks softly =>
A girl believes and was trained to believe that any Free that enters a Gorean
Home..and has some knowledge of Gor, should be offered the same courtesy that is
given to a pledged Member or One of the Council..a Free is a Free..no matter
what, so if a girl was rude to a vistor..it is a potential Patron..
Ramses 20:10:56 CST
I will usually respect all newcomers, and give them complete attention, until
they have proven they are no longer deserving
alyena_{GS} 20:11:29 CST
~nods to Mistress Laroona’s words~
aly should have said all.. tho.. some at some point do make it very hard for a
girl.. ~laughs~
yalena{Sg}~t 20:11:53 CST
all the courtesy a girl can give, Master Rollo, she is to be pleasing to *all*
Free at *all* times
Kyoto 20:11:58 CST
Well, I won't give a newcomer the keys to the slave kennels... but I do treat
them with some basic courtesy till I can learn their intentions and such.
Slaves should treat them as a free person, with respect.
jasma{LB} 20:12:36 CST
i didn't think it was a choice on whom we were courteous to and whom we're not.
sorcha{Orion} 20:12:42 CST
unless a girl is restricted in some way, to only serving pledged patrons, she
should give a non pledged patron the same service as offered to pledged patrons.
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:13:06 CST
besides, with a bit of knowledge, some kindness and a gentle push here and
there, even an HNG can become something else.
sometimes...
caitlin_{Xg-L}t 20:13:06 CST
agree with yalena completly
Paedur-Slavemaster 20:13:14 CST
Listens to the answers.
So if a girl is found to be not pleasing to a newcomer.
Then what?
I have seen We dismiss it because they were HNG, so this newcomer is no HNG.
Then what? *S*
Laroona 20:14:09 CST
adding....
If the Free has little or no regard to GS rules and Protocols, after being
politely pointed out to those,,, and the behaviour continues,,, then I would
think they be made feel most unwelcome *S*
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:15:02 CST
ariel takes her punishment if the Newcomer is brave enough to administer it.
zara_A_ 20:15:07 CST 61.68.47.46
A girl thinks that her Master be informed and an appropriate punishment given.
Well thats what would happen to this girl
Jaegers_kath 20:15:22 CST
slaves are to treat the Free all the same kath thinks. If a girl finds that a
HNG is posing as a Master, this should be reported...but as ariel says, even an
HNG can find His Mastery awakened. Most new simply are trying to "fit" into the
site, learning customs etc and deserve our attention and patience.
nayyirah{P} 20:16:24 CST
~knows nayyirah was taught to be polite and respectful to ALL Free, as she is
but slave, and thinks she would have tasted the whip otherwise, not sure how
this Home views things though~
Kyoto 20:16:48 CST
It depends on the situation, Paedur. If the slave is one that all know as being
reliable and the free is new, perhaps the situation can and should be
adjudicated so that all parties come away richer for the experience.
Not everything is a slave's fault in such cases.
(And slaves, this is not a ticket to misbehave, not if I am close by.)
That is why a c&p can be helpful.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:17:01 CST
*it shouldn't matter whether they are HNG or not Paedur, if a slave is found
displeasing she should be punished S*
Kyoto 20:17:51 CST
Looks at ariel and raises my brow, my voice growing menacingly soft.
Brave enough, ariel?
Keene 20:19:11 CST
Emerald, I would ask, by who's definition of displeasing are we speaking. The
Free she displeased or her Master's?
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:19:11 CST
aye Master Kyoto, it has been ariel's experience that Newcomers are sometimes
hesitant.
Laroona 20:19:13 CST
hearing Captain Kyoto I smile
I echo .... slaves should in all cases if ever in doubt C&P to CYA (cover your
arse)
Paedur-Slavemaster 20:19:23 CST
Well Emerald, I am sorry but THAT is at times not what happens.
I have seen and heard many times a slave's punishment being dismissed simply
because the Free was not a pledge of GS.
or the Free was a difficult Man to please.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:20:29 CST
*the Free that she displeased Keene, S*
zara_A_ 20:21:11 CST
<= thinks that any slave should try their hardest to please, for that is a
slave's job...a slave is to be pleasing all the time..it isn't a part time
job..if it was..they shouldn't be a slave...=>
Keene 20:21:14 CST
Thank you for that clarification Emerald. Its good to see you again.
jasma{LB} 20:21:47 CST
being difficult to please can be a challenge but not necessarily a bad one. i
seem to recall a few pledged Free that have also been a bit more *difficult* to
please..
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:21:51 CST
*a slave is to be found pleasing at all times, and if not she should be
punished, but I suppose it comes down to who is in the room at the time of the
displeasing?*
Rollo_the_Ax 20:21:53 CST
There is no * simple * answer to this issue... any * new * person SHOULD be
given the benefit of the doubt in most cases.... until they either prove that
they have nad can learn to follow OUR rules... or until they show that they
don't give a rat's ass and so do NOT deserve such a benefit.....
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:22:33 CST
*very true zara and jasma S*
nassy{Sg} 20:23:22 CST
seems to go to the line in the Litany
"He is to be pleased and i am to please"
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:23:23 CST
agrees with jasma. there have been many Free difficult to please. that's
actually part of the excitement. at least for ariel.. to see if i can match up.
meet and beat those expectations.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:24:28 CST
*if a slave is found displeasing to the Free that she is serving, she should be
punished ,but if she is found displeasing by another Free in the room that she is
not serving it should be up to the person she is serving to either punish her or
not S*
Paedur-Slavemaster 20:24:35 CST
So if a Free is difficult to serve, does that mean that Free should be shunned
as well? *S*
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:24:59 CST
not in ariel's opinion Master Paedur.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:25:26 CST
*nope,it means that the slave's are to try harder to please that person, Paedur
S*
yalna{Sg}~t 20:25:43 CST
exactly sis nassy, and until one is told publicly to *ignore* Another, we don't
get to pick and choose...a Free is a Free, is a Free and due everything a slave
has, her all.
Kyoto 20:27:13 CST
Hell, I can be difficult to please... does this mean I should be shunned?
nassy{Sg} 20:27:22 CST
nods as Master Forest's words...the girl has to try harder to please the One
that is difficult....tis not the One's fault ...tis something that she herself
has missed..
Paedur-Slavemaster 20:27:59 CST
OK THAT is good to hear Emerald
but it is good to hear.
Not many Free are as easy to serve as Kyoto. LOL
Rollo_the_Ax 20:28:04 CST
It is simple human nature to NOT extend the same level of * concern * or require
the same level of compliance from those we KNOW and those we do NOT know.....
remember that on Gor, the words for Enemy and Stranger are one in the
same.......
jade{Dk} 20:28:05 CST
it speaks of being pleasing to HNG's in Fighting the Princess Principal... it
should not matter whether Free or HNG, Free is still Free whether they know Gor
or Not
jasma{LB} 20:29:00 CST
~dark gems sparkling as Master Kyoto speaks.. sensual lips turning to a smile~..
hmmmmm.. no Master.. not at all.
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:29:43 CST
it's been ariel's experience that the harder the Man is to please the more
slaves adore Him.
Keene120:29:59 CST
If you treat all the "strangers" who come into your Home as enemies Rollo, you
will never have anyone new around.
jade{Dk} 20:30:07 CST
enjoys serving the Ones that are harder to please... it is more of a challenge
and keeps the slave on her toes and learning*
yalena{Sg}~t 20:30:37 CST
~smiles from deep inside~ funny how that works, hum ariel
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:31:12 CST
*We treat strangers as strangers till We get to know them Keene S*
Rollo_the_Ax 20:31:25 CST
Sorry, folks....but an RT issue has just came up that I must go and deal with,
so I will have to leave now..... One of the other captains can take over the
forum and run it ....... Be well, all..... I hope to see everybody again soon...
if not before, perhaps at the next forum....... Farewell, all........
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:31:39 CST
it's amazing yalena. *g* simply amazing.
Sandman,,Builder_ 20:31:44 CST
Free should not be shunned .. but perhaps it is reasonable to expect the Pledged
.. or a Captain to intervene ,, on behalf of the slave .. if the newcomer is
going beyond simple ignorance
Laroona 20:31:47 CST
geesh wonder if I am more loved for being harder to please LOL
seriously I often set high standards, more as a teaching slaves to be even
better.... *S*
Kyoto 20:33:39 CST
Keene, it has less to do with treating them as enemies as knowing that until a
stranger shows he is not, he is usually watched closely.
That philosophy isn't so strongly adhered to in most on-line Gorean rooms as
people are expected to respect the room rules. If they say no kill, then no kill
is accepted. Things such as that.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:33:51 CST
*if that happens Sandman, then the slave is to C&P the incident and then leave
and send it to the council to look over S*
Keene 20:33:55 CST
Yes, I understand and have seen that Emerald. And I don’t suggest you welcome
everyone who walks in with open arms. There must be a middle ground.
Keene 20:34:51 CST
Kyoto, I didn’t follow you. Can you elaborate for me.
Sandman,,Builder_ 20:35:06 CST
nods to Emerald Forest ,, that makes sense
Paedur-Slavemaster 20:35:57 CST
Keene, there is, with a slight wariness of the Man but without a sword at His
throat. LOL
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:36:19 CST
*well with open arms and a dagger close by Keene LOL*
Keene 20:37:07 CST
*Laughs* Paedur.
I would be much more wary of Me with a sword at my throat then not.
Paedur-Slavemaster 20:38:01 CST
I look at it as a new customer to the local bar on a Saturday night.
Most people keep their distance but are decent enough until that Man has been
ion for a few saturdays in a row and the bartenders know His name. *S*
Too many Biker and STrip clubs in My day I think. LOL
Keene 20:38:37 CST
*chuckles* Emerald. I understand where most of You are coming from. I am sure
you have experienced your share of "idiots" and that makes you a little
apprehensive about someone new walking in your doors.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:39:06 CST
*those are still My days Paedur LOL*
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:39:58 CST
*but that does not mean that We just kill them Keene, We give them time first
then We kill them LOL, only kidding S*
Kyoto 20:40:38 CST
Chuckling softly as I hear Keene, looking back to my post and rereading.
I'll try... sometimes I tend to ramble a bit now days...
what I meant is that, in Gorean, the words for stranger and enemy are the same.
It is best in such a context to not put too much trust in a stranger lest he
becomes the other...
Now, that is the book interpretation. We have a bit more leeway in our on-line
realm. We can set the rules of the rooms to soften the effects of someone who
has ill will to you.
Paedur-Slavemaster 20:40:53 CST
Mine too Emerald. LOL
and We have to wait to see how many drinks they buy before We decide if We will
kill em off or let them keep buying. LOL
Keene 20:41:10 CST
Give them enough rope to hang themselves with Emerald?
But in the meantime shouldn’t they be given all the courtesies of a Free?
Keene 20:42:01 CST
Ok, now I understood what you meant Kyoto. Thanks.
Xertog 20:42:35 CST
With all that has been said about how strangers are treated in Gor, I'm curious
as to what your experience has been in GS so far Keene.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:42:54 CST
*yes They should Keene and will be S*
Keene 20:46:07 CST
Xertog. I will say only this as to not point fingers and name names. I have been
treated very well by most of the slaves in GS. I have been treated with leary
courtesy from most of the Free with a few exceptions. However, I do not believe
as a Free I am treated with the same respect from some as someone who is pledged
to GS. I guess that is to be expected
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:46:27 CST
*ok then,I think this topic has been cleared up, lookin at the waterclock, well
time is almost up for a long discussion so I will give you a small one that has
been brought up over the past week to do with larma again LOL,it seems that a
white silk cannot give larma on a tray in a fruit platter, but it is said in the
slave pages that they can, fruit & cheese
this platter should contain at least 3 kinds of fruits, more is even better and
arranged deliciously with bite size chunks of cheese, verr cheese is the perfect
accent for a fruit platter as it is sharp and a bit crumbly, like a cross
between feta and cheddar. possible fruits would be a selection of ta- grapes,
ramberries, tospit, larma, redfruit, plums, apricots, and/or dates
nayyirah{P} 20:47:38 CST
nayyirah hears what is being said, and understands the ways of the Free and
Strangers, but that should not apply to how kajira act, as kajira have a duty to
be pleasing and respectful to the New Free, is that not the case in this Home my
Master??
~dark eyes look up as she wants to make sure she does not dishonor You, though
she has read all over and over the last two weeks on Your rules and manuals~
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:49:03 CST
*a slave should treat you as a Free Keene, but another Free treats people
differently from another Free S*
Keene 20:50:43 CST
And my actions? Should they be in concordance with a Free in regards to a slave
or should I if an incident occurs C & P it to the council for review and you
take the action necessary?
Paedur-Slavemaster 20:50:51 CST
Aye nayyirah, you will always treat the Free with respect and courtesy.
without question.
Else you will answer to My whip, or worse.
Laroona 20:57:48 CST
Keene I have only seen you act and speak with honour and I do enjoy your visits
*S*
nayyirah{P} 20:53:00 CST
Yes Master, nayyirah hears and understands!
~leans in closer, a small shiver passes through her lithe form at the thought of
His whip, her soft cheek presses against His knee~
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:53:19 CST
*as a Free Keene, You can punish a slave, it is in the rules how far a Free can go
with an owned slave, if it needs to go further then she is to be tied to the post
and then a C&P to the council or to the owner and let it be dealt with by them
S*
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:53:49 CST
don't know about anybody else, but Master Ruilan would say that if ariel is
displeasing she should be punished. no need to c&p no need to wait. don't kill
her, maim her, or permanently disfigure.. but punish and be done with it.
Keene 20:54:16 CST
I thought I had read that in your rules. Thank you for clarifying it as well
Emerald.
Kyoto 20:55:22 CST
I hope you don't take it personally, Keene, that feeling of not being treated
the same as other free persons by free persons.
We love to have new people come, it strengthens our home, and from what I know,
you look as if you will do well here. But relationships take time to form, in
any environment.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:55:47 CST
*any Free can punish a slave if she is displeasing, whether a cuff or a kick, S*
Jaegers_kath 20:55:47 CST
Nods to ariel.....Same with Master Jaeger and His slave..just no maiming or
killing, scarring
Keene 20:55:55 CST
*nodding to Laroona* Thank You for the compliment Lady.
Keene 20:56:39 CST
No, I do not take THAT personally at all Kyoto. And I completely understand
that.
ShadowHawk - Outlaw 20:57:27 CST
*nodding to ariel*.. as with Ruilan girl.. I am the same..
Kyoto 20:57:52 CST
With my slaves, if they warrant punishment, cuff, kick or bind them as needed...
I just want a brief c&p to see how much I will punish them.
Looking to tassa...
ShadowHawk - Outlaw 20:58:43 CST
Keene.. even from some of Us that have been here for years.. still have
problems..
{Ruilans_ariel} 20:58:59 CST
it only makes sense Master ShadowHawk. punish if need be. Gorean Masters are
harsh, not cruel and if ariel is displeasing i'd rather be punished immediately.
not wait.. it's worse to have to wait.
EMERALD_FOREST_CAPTAIN 20:59:19 CST
*ok folks I think We might call this forum to a close, take care all that are
leaving and hope to see you'se all here next week S*
Laroona 20:59:24 CST
some Free are impatient and do not look at time stamps between posts.... that is
an issue I have observed
ShadowHawk - Outlaw 21:01:07 CST
I have noted that Some also tend to be a bit hypocrit.. but hey.. so goes life..