RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO PRAISE “GODS” OF GOR IN PORT KAR?
Rollo the Ax 19:26:41 pm CST
Welcome everybody to this weeks edition of the GS forum.... we will follow the same rules as always... everybody gets to have their say...even slaves, as long as it is done in a respectful manner.. once we start, keep the personal chit chat and greetings and such in WHISPERS so as to take some of the burden off of the scribes... anybody with a topic, question, or anything they wish to discuss, PM it to ME, and I will bring them up as time allows.. Okay ??? lets begin......
Rollo the Ax 19:34:00 pm CST
Okay.... our first topic........ ** some tend to Praise to Priest Kings and still others Odin. is there a right or wrong in Port Kar or as eclectic as the City was known to be would there be biases?
asking only for a probable lesson in Gorean religion differences. **
Trample the weak Hurdle the dead 19:34:05 pm CST
well thats that ...LOL
Laroona 19:35:41 pm CST
Odin is by Torvaslanders If I am correct
and Priest Kings by the Southeners
so in GS as we are a mix of both neither would be wrong IMO
Trample the weak Hurdle the dead 19:35:55 pm CST
well I think seeing there are Free from all regions here it wouldnt matter
galah{RA} 19:36:19 pm CST
i was always told not to discuss politics or religion hehehehheeeeee both subjects can get one is some deep do do heheheheheheeee
Jarl Thorrn 19:37:18 pm CST
scratches , my head
never thought about religion being in Gor ... besides screaning omg
*grin*
Rollo the Ax 19:38:23 pm CST
Okay... as * I * remember it from the books.... the PKs where * worshiped * or used by the Initiats as god forms mainly to subdue or repress the lower castes... many times in the books, those of the high castes who were privy to * higher knowledge * knew full well that the PKs were NOT gods or such..... but to answer this specific question, I do not remember even 1 temple or such to the PKs in Port Kar..
Jake 19:39:14 pm CST
not that it would happen. an example say..the tavern is run by a Torvaslander that sees Odin as a Higher power for lack of a better term. An Inititate say enters the Tavern to seek the virtues back of the slaves and the Tavern itself. would the Tavern owner be respectful before He took His head off before chasing away His business?
Laroona 19:40:29 pm CST
so would it be an onlinism or can it be used Captain?
as you say there are no temples and I do not recall any religious festivals etc where goreans worship
rani{KR} 19:40:46 pm CST
~steps quietly through the entrance, hurrying to Master's feet, easing to a kneel, dark eyes peering about curiously, listening and remaining quiet
Rollo the Ax 19:42:45 pm CST
In truth, be it the PKs , or Odin, or whom ever, where ever... there were examples of folks just doing like galah said and keeping their beliefs to them selves.... like in Muaraders, they knew that making the sign of the fist .... over their drinks and such was more or less okay in Torvaldsland, but not so else where on Gor... * unless they didn't give a shit and did it anyway *
Jarl Thorrn 19:43:18 pm CST
Tavern owners will, like business men, likely go where the business is, *l*
Laroona 19:44:52 pm CST
Captain only a couple have I seen do that in GS, and they make the fist of a hammer (if I recall properly),, tip some of the drink on the floor and say Praise be to Odin
Rollo the Ax 19:48:40 pm CST
LOL...LOL... Like Thorrn says, in business, MOST folks have only ONE god... MONEY !!! but lets use RT as an example... if you are Christian does that keep you from buying milk at the 7/11 from some Islamic guy ??? or not riding in a cab if driven by a Buddist ???
Kristian.. speak softly, but carry a big stick 19:49:01 pm CST
the PK's reaide inb thre
Xertog 19:49:16 pm CST
I don't recall from the books that the Initiates having much of a strong hold in Port Kar. So I've never thought the PKs were revered in Port Kar like in other cities.
Rollo the Ax 19:50:54 pm CST
To be technical Laroona, the sign of the fist is really to honor Thor.. the fist represents his war hammer... but Thor was a member of Odins pantheon of gods, so by doing so they also honored Odin..
Jarl Thorrn 19:51:47 pm CST
well, Rollo
i think religion should be a very private thing and not match into publich live so much as it did and still does
i don´t care whatever religion anybody has - as long has he doesn´t try to make others to live according to his religious rules too and as long as he pays respect to other forms of thinking and praising
unfortunately i´m afraid that is too often not the reality
Laroona 19:52:25 pm CST
thanks Captain *S*
Kristian.. speak softly, but carry a big stick 19:54:06 pm CST
the PK's, reside in the Sardar Mountains in the far north of gor & are worshipped by the ppl of Torvaldsland..
Rollo the Ax 19:55:10 pm CST
but it was also made clear in the book that by openly honoring Thor and Odin, you were NOT following the * accepted * or legal religion of the Initiats.... lets face it though folks, even in the books John Norman showed his distain for orginized religion by showing that the Initiats were for the most part just parisites living off the fears of the masses.....
Laroona 19:57:23 pm CST
I do not recall ever seeing any Initiates in GS
*looks to galah to see if she recalls
Xertog 19:58:22 pm CST
From Luther's writings:
Those in Torvaldsland respect the Priest-Kings but do not worship or revere them as gods. Instead, the worship gods like Odin and Thor, gods from the Norse mythology of Earth. geocities.com/delphius2002/id81.htm
Rollo the Ax 19:59:15 pm CST
to be exact... the PKs live in the Sardar, yes... but they do not concider themselves Gods or anything like that.. they don't even care much about what the Initiate caste does... it is the PEOPLE that just keep following the OLD ways without questioning them that allows the system to keep going...
Jarl Thorrn 20:01:44 pm CST
everything else than that would have surprised me, Rollo
the old religion of Odin and Thor and Freia and Loki and all of them is at home in the North
Rollo the Ax 20:03:15 pm CST
To be as honest as I can... I am sure that there are/were Initiates that may well have been honest belivers ... but much of what the books say is that many if not most were just in it by caste ... and into it to screw the masses anyway they could... kinda like RT religions... right ????
Jarl Thorrn 20:03:51 pm CST
very much like in RT
Kristian.. speak softly, but carry a big stick 20:04:12 pm CST
Torvaldsland is based upon the cities & lives of norse Vikings
Jake 20:04:13 pm CST
shepherds leading the flock
aurora{Ulrich}GS~sg 20:04:54 pm CST
soft nod
agrees, very much like r/t religions
it all comes down to money
and self acclaimed rightiousness
Jarl Thorrn 20:06:41 pm CST
nodes in agreement to Jake and aurora
Laroona 20:07:55 pm CST
each to their own VT in the Gorean sense and RT I would suppose
Rollo the Ax 20:08:13 pm CST
LOL.. well... Odin and the Norse pantheon are of the OLD gods... the golden age when man finally saw gods as human... like Zues and his bunch... no longer bulls heads on mens bodies or aninals... or parts of nature like the sun, moon, water.. etc... so they still get called ** Pagan **... LOL...LOL..
aurora{Ulrich}GS~sg 20:08:53 pm CST
Behind the Initiates, standing, as befits the men of other castes, I saw men of a hundred cities, joined here in their common fear and plea to the denizens of the Sardar. Well I could suppose the terror and upheavals that had brought these men, normally so divided against one another in the strife of their warring cities, to that palisade, to the dark shadows of the Sardar...I was pleased to see that the men of other castes, unlike the Initiates, did not grovel. There were men in that crowd from Ar, from Thentis, from Tharna, recognized by the yellow cords in their belt; from Port Kar; from Tor, Cos, Tyros; perhaps from Treve...perhaps even from...Ko-ro-ba. And the men in that crowd were of all castes, and even of castes as low as the Peasants, the Saddle-Makers, the Weavers, the Goat-Keepers, the Poets and the Merchants, but none of them grovelled as did the Initiates; how strange, I thought---the Initiates claimed to be most like Priest-Kings, even to be formed in their image, and yet I knew that a Priest-King would never grovel; it seemed the Initiates, in their efforts to be like gods, behaved like slaves."
p 294-295, Priest Kings of Gor
Laroona 20:09:57 pm CST
great quote aurora *S
Rollo the Ax 20:13:39 pm CST
Outstanding quote..... It shows how when small men are given power, they worry more about losing it then using it for the good of all......
Laroona 20:17:34 pm CST
**thinks we beat that topic to the proverbial death**
Rollo the Ax 20:17:41 pm CST
perhaps we should move on to another topic... I am showing my personal lack of acceptence of the major religions .... religions are like political ideals..... either can be VERY good in theory, but fail simply because it take HUMANS to make them work and so very often fail miserably.....
aurora{Ulrich}GS~sg 20:18:18 pm CST
lol...slaves grovel
Initiates grovel
the Free pray to who they want to pray to *L
Jarl Thorrn 20:19:09 pm CST
agrees about skipping this now
but was still good to hear how it is looked at in Gor and by John Neuman
Karima 20:21:02 pm CST
~Enters quietly as to not disturb and settles upon the furs~
Rollo the Ax 20:21:31 pm CST
I hope that all that was said answered the original question about how things are/were done in Port Kar.....
Rollo the Ax 20:22:48 pm CST
Any other questions or topics ????
zoya{GS}t 20:24:33 pm CST
~*~slips in and to the back, kneeling to listen~*~
Rollo the Ax 20:27:12 pm CST
LOL...LOL.. looks like I still have a problem finding the whisper box.....LOL...LOL.. well at least it was a harmless screw-up... LOL..
Jake 20:27:41 pm CST
chuckles
Jarl Thorrn 20:28:37 pm CST
thinks Rollo should get some slaves to whisper with Him a lot to learn and be in training
*grins*
Rollo the Ax 20:28:42 pm CST
Any other questions or topics ???
Jarl Thorrn 20:30:27 pm CST
no more questions here
i´m too easily being content *l*
Rollo the Ax 20:32:39 pm CST
To be honest, Thorrn... I try to NOT use the whisper function whenever possable..... I usually only use it as a courtesy to anyone that might want their questions or whom they are kept private..... for the most part, if you just say everything in the open, you never have to worry about having anything you said used against you at a later date...
Jarl Thorrn 20:33:56 pm CST
may be not at a later date ....
... but may be at a later dating
*chuckles*
aurora{Ulrich}GS~sg 20:34:34 pm CST
dropping whispers Jarl?
~grins~
Jarl Thorrn 20:35:17 pm CST
nope - that was meant as a piblic posting, aurora
just a lil joke ... that is how am i´m sometimes *l*
Rollo the Ax 20:35:19 pm CST
LOL.. many, many years of dealing with so very many issues have most likely made me somewhat paranoid... so I find it better to just be willing to say everything out in the open... either that or don't say it at all.....
Laroona 20:35:20 pm CST
None of us are guilty of dropping whispers LOL
Jarl Thorrn 20:36:59 pm CST
i´m for too long in the chat already aurora to drop whispers so often anymore ... learnt about the basic whisper-rule
first highlight (or whatever the site requires) the other name .. and THEN type
*L*
Laroona 20:38:55 pm CST
Captain and often when one says something in the open they get jumped on LOL...
aurora{Ulrich}GS~sg 20:42:28 pm CST
thank You Master Rollo
thank You scribes
. Rollo the Ax 20:44:51 pm CST
LOL...LOL.. it is all too true... so in MY opinion, just like I said... if I am not willing to have EVERYBODY hear or read what I say, I simply do NOT say it.... LOL...LOL... and if anybody still wants to * jump * me about it, they can.... but remember... I JUMP back !!!!! LOL..LOL....LMAO
Rollo the Ax 20:45:54 pm CST
So again..... any other business or topics ???
Jarl Thorrn 20:46:04 pm CST
LOL @ the jumping back aand thinks not many will survive that unharmed
Laroona 20:46:28 pm CST
heee why we agree with you Captain Rollo *S*
seriously I speak for myself I learn a lot from you *S
Karima 20:47:01 pm CST
~Peers up from the furs to smile upon the room~
Greetings Aall.
Rollo the Ax 20:50:51 pm CST
LOL...LOL... Now have folks been talking again ??? saing that Rollo is so big that if he * jumps * on you, you might not survive it ??? LOL.. it may well be true that it is more likely to be crushed by me than to get cut by my axe... LOL..LOL... roaring with laughter.....
Rollo the Ax 21:00:51 pm CST
Well folks... it is very close to time for us to end the forum, and I have some duties in RT to attend to, so I will call the formal forum to a close... if anybody wants to stay and keep talking, please feel free to do so..... Be well, everybody... and may Wodin the One eyed watch over everyone that calls GS their HOME......
Laroona 21:02:12 pm CST
thank you Captain Rollo
{Ulrich's}shadow GS~fg 21:02:09 pm CST
girl thanks You Master Rollo
an to the scribes.. ~smiles~
Ulrich 21:02:53 pm CST
Thanks Rollo and the scribes