June 16, 2013 | gs-past-forums

Present:

Tanthio§

Dak

Bretval

Kazar

Lita

snowrose

marieve

shimmer

hulya

fidget

flicka

Dak 19:49:52 pm CDT

if any has a topic, whisper to Me, and I will open the Forum

Dak 20:03:32 pm CDT

ok, *smiles*, I will open the forum, I have a topic, same rules keep chit chat and greetings to whispers, have mercy on the scribe, *smiles*,

Ice.

How is the coldroom so cold and where does the Ice come from if there is no electricity upon Gor?

shimmer{GS} 20:04:55 pm CDT

magic from the priests of Kings?

Tanthio§ 20:05:31 pm CDT

I often wondered that and would it be eatable if it was imported from the north?

Bretval, Merchant 20:05:38 pm CDT

I would assume the ice is chipped out in the mountains and transported by tarn

flicka-slave of Keeper 20:06:49 pm CDT

oooh that is a good pint Master Dak, well from Roman times (and perhaps even earlier) onwards, ice used to be brought packed in straw from high mountains and from the frozen north. It was very expensive though, and it was a sign of wealth to serve "ice confections" or chilled drinks.

So maybe ice is shipped in from the frozen wastes of Northern Gor.

marieve{GS} 20:06:49 pm CDT

Ice is cut from ponds in the winter, and then stored in ice houses, under sawdust. One may go to the ice houses for it, or have it delivered in ice wagons. Most Goreans, of course, cannot afford the luxury of ice in the summer."

Dak 20:07:29 pm CDT

I thought I read it was brought in from the snow capped mountains on Tarnback

Tanthio§ 20:07:36 pm CDT

would need to be a Huge Tarn to support it I would think and then what would they show up with 50% or less?

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:07:48 pm CDT

we don't really serve drinks with ice in them really...mostly they are just chilled from being in there...could be brought from the North...the room could be very well insulated from outside heat...can't say she gave it much thought

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:08:08 pm CDT

one too many reallys in there

Lita, Physician 20:08:34 pm CDT

If memory serves, the ice is broken off in blocks from the mountains, packed in straw, covered with a canvas-like material, and transported by Tharlarion. It is very expensive. Cold rooms are at least partially dug from the ground for insulation.

marieve{GS} 20:09:07 pm CDT

The average Tavern or Inn will not have bowls of ice just lying around for anyone to play with and if they have managed to acquire ice, it certainly will not be drinkable as it will be from a natural source and most likely dirty and covered in sawdust to maintain its chill.

Tanthio§ 20:10:35 pm CDT

That was what I wondered marieve.. *Takes note not to order chipped ice in My ka-la-na anymore *chuckles*

Lita, Physician 20:10:39 pm CDT

I don't believe it was transported by tarn, simply because the weight would be an issue.

Bretval, Merchant 20:11:55 pm CDT

Tarns carry a number of men ... what is a little bit of ice

marieve's answer would work in area that had cold winters

marieve{GS} 20:12:08 pm CDT

aye, Master Tanthios. That still occurs in the present day. They harvest the ice from the frozen lakes to use in camping coolers.

Lita, Physician 20:12:21 pm CDT

Tanthios, You would be surprise how well straw and sawdust insulate, and the ice would be cut in large blocks, to help preserve it.

Tanthio§ 20:14:27 pm CDT

*Nods to Lita* I often wondered though how the slaves exit the cold room so chilly with vulo bumps etc.. *smiles* Does GS have ICE?

flicka-slave of Keeper 20:15:11 pm CDT

Well flicka can still remember as a girl the Iceman coming around and delivering ice for our icebox, in summer as well as winter. The ice was in blocks about 2 feet square and would last about 4-5 days in the icebox depending on the weather. A girl's parents could not afford one of the new fangled electric refridgerators.

shimmer{GS} 20:19:53 pm CDT

well it is a cold room so girl would guess it would have to have some way of keeping things cold so must have a delivery Master to deliver ice blocks to the tavern.

shimmer{GS} 20:22:34 pm CDT

girl knows in the book merauders they did have an ice cellar because one of the girls as a punishment got tied up and put in it ... so maybe that is what we have is an ice cellar and then ice is brought up from it to put it in the cold room

flicka-slave of Keeper 20:22:56 pm CDT

marieve is right, if ice is in big blocks (as it would be for transportation) then if it is well insulated with straw or sawdust the attrition rate would be quite small. But whether a bawdy Tavern in the bowels of the dock area of Port Kar could afford to serve chilled drinks would be another matter.

Still a girl thinks that the Master's would pay quite dearly to ensure that we slaves have to enter a frigid room, flicka cannot imagine why They like it so much.

Tanthio§ 20:23:31 pm CDT

I still take note not to have chipped ice in drink. since there may be straw or sawdust mixed in it.. that explains the ones I've ordered in the past. ha ha

Dak 20:23:35 pm CDT

I could see, the Tarnsmen of Treve bringing ice to the lower communities and then doing raids for slaves on their return, *smiles*

marieve{GS} 20:24:05 pm CDT

~laughing with flicka~

hulya{GS} 20:25:12 pm CDT

*giggles at Master Tanthios*

Tanthio§ 20:25:22 pm CDT

We like wet silk contests girl *winks*

flicka-slave of Keeper 20:26:37 pm CDT

Master Tanthio§ also ice in Your drink would dilute it and a girl thinks that a brawny Master would not want to drink anything insipid.

Master did You get an upset tummy?

Tanthio§ 20:27:15 pm CDT

Ice never had a chance to melt flicka *Laughs*

Dak 20:27:26 pm CDT

does anyone have a better idea of how the keep coldrooms cold now, *smiles*

Lita, Physician 20:27:33 pm CDT

O.K. here are some quotes from Ubar Luther regarding iced:

There is little cold storage on Gor. Ice is commonly a luxury, especially in the summer. Ice blocks would be cut from ponds in the winter and then stored in icehouses under sawdust. Physicians might require cold storage for certain medical supplies. It seems likely that a place like the Cylinder of Physicians would have a cold storage area. The storage of certain medical supplies would be important enough to pay the expense to do so. A small Physician's office on the other hand might not have the financial resources to have his own cold storage area.

Tanthio§ 20:27:51 pm CDT

and well I suppose it may be a way for One to get fiber in Their diet *Laughing Out Loud*

Lita, Physician 20:28:00 pm CDT

Most food is preserved by being dried or salted. Ice is cut from ponds in winter and then stored in icehouses under sawdust. You may go to the icehouse to get it, or have it delivered from ice wagons. Ice is an expensive luxury, especially in the summer. Few paga taverns will have cold storage areas. It would be much more common for them to store certain foods and drinks in a basement area to keep it cool, though not really cold.

flicka-slave of Keeper 20:28:30 pm CDT

~chuckling~ Aye Master Tanthio§ yet another aberration that flicka does not understand. Now Masters stripped to the waist, Their muscles oiled and rippling as they lift kegs of ale or practice Their fighting, this flicka can understand.

Bretval, Merchant 20:28:37 pm CDT

I would not worry about ice from the mountains as the air is not as polluted as the mountains of Earth...

Lita, Physician 20:28:57 pm CDT

Thassa in this region is frozen for about half the year. The waters contain many icebergs, some several pasangs wide and hundreds of feet high. Usually in the spring and summer, icebergs break off from the glaciers. As the icebergs are made of fresh water, they are less dense than the salt water of Thassa.

Thus they float, though much of the iceberg is submerged beneath the sea. Commonly, an iceberg is about eight times larger than what is visible. There is no specific term for "iceberg" in Gorean. They refer to it simply as a "mountain" though sometimes will call it an "ice mountain" to differentiate it from other types of mountains. The icebergs drift with the currents, basically eastward. The parsit current is the main current in the polar region and it flows eastward. It receives its name because several varieties of migrating parsits follow its path.

Tanthio§ 20:31:47 pm CDT

so therefore the ice may be salty as well *hmmm*

Dak 20:32:39 pm CDT

salt melts ice

Bretval, Merchant 20:33:58 pm CDT

A lesson learned by the Titanic

Lita, Physician 20:34:20 pm CDT

And yet, Dak, even salt water will eventually freeze under the right conditions.

Dak 20:36:08 pm CDT

if it is diluted enough, yes or cold enough, *smiles*

Tanthio§ 20:36:36 pm CDT

Perhaps the slaves will have to run to Lita's chambers to get clean ice *chuckles*

Bretval, Merchant 20:37:49 pm CDT

At -40 saltwater probably won't melt

Lita, Physician 20:40:16 pm CDT

Tanthios, according to the oone of the quotes from Luther that I gave, I as a lone physician might not be able to afford ice. If ther Tavern DOES have ice, it might be part of My contract that I am permitted to keep some of my medicines store in the Cold Room if they need to be kept cool.

Dak 20:40:31 pm CDT

well, have we beat this to death long enough ?

Lita, Physician 20:41:48 pm CDT

I'd say so, Dak. Got another interesting topic?

Tanthio§ 20:43:09 pm CDT

*Grins and understands Lita* Your practice is limited..

Dak 20:43:47 pm CDT

well, maybe , *smiles*

new topic

have a discussion about the use of The Training Room, and whether, as is listed in the entranceway, slaves can use it for dance practice. Perhaps this can be discussed, although to change anything would require the Council's determination.

Lita, Physician 20:44:28 pm CDT

Yes, although I'd guess busier than normal for the number of patients I have. Pirates and sailors seem to injure themselves a lot more than the average person. *LOL*

flicka-slave of Keeper 20:45:42 pm CDT

Not to mention vicious attacks by animals with sharp claws and teeth Mistress Lita.

Tanthio§ 20:46:34 pm CDT

chuckles

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:47:40 pm CDT

think we talked about this not long ago and it was going to be discussed by the Council..it really makes no sense that slaves would ever be allowed to come and go there. And they can practice in the tavern...

hulya{GS} 20:48:06 pm CDT

*smiles at Mistress Lita as She sounds exasperated by how bust She is kept*

Tanthio§ 20:48:15 pm CDT

*Bites My Tongue*

Dak 20:49:28 pm CDT

aye, that was My thinking, and if they want privacy, they may go to the kennels, otherwise the Tavern is an excellent place to practice, and let others witness their progress 1

Lita, Physician 20:49:47 pm CDT

Is the Training Room a room meant for the slaves? Or is it a training room for the Masters to spar in and so on?

fidget {GS} ~t 20:50:04 pm CDT

mistress ~ it is sometimes hard to practice in the tavern, with all the serving and furring ~ and it seems a shame that part of our home is not utilized because slaves are not allowed to go there

~she smiles sweetly~

besides, there must be a way to get that sun-kissed skin we all admire

hulya{GS} 20:50:07 pm CDT

*nods in agreement with mistress snow*

flicka-slave of Keeper 20:50:53 pm CDT

Master Thadron said He would like it discussed in a full forum.

Dak 20:51:01 pm CDT

I thought that was what the Port Kar room was for

fidget {GS} ~t 20:52:03 pm CDT

when the Port Kar room was created it was meant to be a 'catch all', if you will, for all roleplay that didn't fit into other rooms

shimmer{GS} 20:52:14 pm CDT

it would be nice to practice dances out in the sunlight at times the kennels and tavern it can leave a girl stir crazy..

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:53:05 pm CDT

fidget, the room is for the Free..we as slaves can't just use it because They don't..if the room is busy, that's not the time to be practicing dances...we should be serving, tidying up, or actually dancing . but the tavern is empty for many hours when it can be used for practice

Bretval, Merchant 20:53:57 pm CDT

Training Yard

1. Free Women are permitted to enter the training yard.

2. slaves need not beg entry to the yard

flicka-slave of Keeper 20:54:16 pm CDT

the Entrance to Gorean Shores has this discription against the Training Room.

Training Yard- also located outside the Tavern, this walled in area serves as a place for men to practice at weapons and even catching slaves. Slaves may also use the area to practice dances if it is not in use. Kill/Capture Zone

fidget {GS} ~t 20:54:21 pm CDT

as per the GS pages in room descriptions

Training Yard Located off the Piazza is where patrons exercise their skills and train as warriors. At the far end of the yard there has a raised dias with several curule chairs for the Captains, with a table before them. so they have a clear view of events. The main arena is surrounded on three sides by tiered benches where patrons and slaves may view the combatants. To one side is a smaller sand pit where patrons and slaves can use practicing . Any un-collared slave can be captured if she enters the yards. Free Women can also been seen watching events in the training yard. A Capture area for un-collared slaves

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:54:53 pm CDT

we can even use the piazza for dancing that doesn't require a pole...

shimmer{GS} 20:54:59 pm CDT

it is hard for this girl to stay in the tavern and kennels all the time is use to the open plains it has been a real hard adjustment... she was use to dancing out side... feeling the dirt between her toes...

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:55:44 pm CDT

snow always took that to mean fighting slaves

Lita, Physician 20:56:37 pm CDT

shimmer, as was just said, you can use the Piazza. And slaves did not, in the books, get to choose where they went or what they did.

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:57:10 pm CDT

shimmer, you live where you live now... do girls really think the Free care if slaves want to be out in the sun more.

shimmer{GS} 20:57:13 pm CDT

Slaves may also use the area to practice dances if it is not in use. Kill/Capture Zone

fidget {GS} ~t 20:57:18 pm CDT

fidget is unsure when the training yard was deemed off limits to slaves ~ she's looked (not very hard due to limited time) for the ruling on it, but has yet to find one

fidget {GS} ~t 20:58:34 pm CDT

fidget does not think the Piazza would be a good place to practice an openly sexual dance ~ some girls do not wear silks or camisks while dancing and in the Piazza, you must cover up

Lita, Physician 20:58:53 pm CDT

fidget, I think the Training Yard allows slaves to watch the Masters spar, not for their own use.

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:58:57 pm CDT

snow gave a chore recently that slaves could choose whether it be indoor or outdoor

Bretval, Merchant 20:59:14 pm CDT

But this is not the books Lita and irrelevant except in book club

hulya{GS} 20:59:54 pm CDT

girl would rather stay away from the training yard until the Captains say otherwise, specially since the website has been noted to being in dire need of update

Lita, Physician 21:00:20 pm CDT

Bretval, sorry I kind of lost track. What are you referring to that is not in the books?

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:00:23 pm CDT

If we are not going to allow slaves to practice dance in the Training Yard we need to change the entrance discription of the room. This is yet another example of "private information" conflicting with "public information"

shimmer{GS} 21:01:08 pm CDT

yes Mistress

fidget {GS} ~t 21:02:34 pm CDT

has anyone seen where it was stated that slaves cannot enter the training yard??

Bretval, Merchant 21:03:03 pm CDT

The use of the training yard as described in the Gorean Shores info

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:05:54 pm CDT

fidget, flicka has only seen where it says we can use the Training Yard to practice dance.

~smiling at shimmer~ shimmer flicka agrees with you, she is lucky she is able to get out and about, flicka would imagine few Masters would find a wan and pale slave all that attractive.

fidget {GS} ~t 21:06:40 pm CDT

~nudges flicka~

hey ~ fidget is pale

~makes a face at flicka and then laughs~

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:06:58 pm CDT

this is the rule on the info page.

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:08:25 pm CDT

~chuckling at the nudge~ ah but fidget as the only pale one you would be considered exotic and therefore desirable.

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:08:26 pm CDT

as she said, she thinks that means fighting slave practice. There used to be an old info page...did it say dancing in the arena on there?

fidget {GS} ~t 21:10:44 pm CDT

fidget has long lost the link to the old page ~ but it still does not state that slave aren't allowed there

the only reason she persists is that its a shame that a room in GS goes unused and that slaves are disallowed from going into a room in the place they consider home. if that were the case, why have that room at all?

honestly, how many Masters have you seen practice there since you've all been here?

Bretval, Merchant 21:11:26 pm CDT

That is clear as mud re: slaves nd practicing

Lita, Physician 21:11:28 pm CDT

snow, on the page as you are entering GS, where it describews the rooms, it says:

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:11:50 pm CDT

it doesn't have to state that slaves may not use it for dancing...if they were permitted , it would say so...

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:12:03 pm CDT

When one enters GS and is offered a selection of room to choose to enter this is what is listed against the Training Yard:

When people first come to our home this is what they will see, only later do most people read the webpages.

We need to have all parts agreeing with each other.

Bretval, Merchant 21:12:10 pm CDT

yea, it did

fidget {GS} ~t 21:12:17 pm CDT

it does

~laughing softly~

~points to Mistress Lita's post~

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:12:44 pm CDT

mistress snowrose it does say so.

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:13:20 pm CDT

snow is looking at the current info page, below the message box here Mistress angelfire.com/vt/goreanshores/info.html

where did Mistress find that post

Lita, Physician 21:13:34 pm CDT

Sinced there seems to be confusion between the entry page and the web pages, perhaps we do need a ruling from the Captains on this.

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:13:56 pm CDT

~sighs~ it is on the page when you enter GS.

fidget {GS} ~t 21:14:43 pm CDT

mistress, was it shadow that told you slaves weren't allowed in the training yard?

Tanthio§ 21:15:15 pm CDT

one or the other needs updating and I don't see any problem with it since it's a Kill / capture zone as well.

Lita, Physician 21:16:00 pm CDT

Here is the link, snow to the page to which I refer: gorean-shores.com/chatrules.php? ..

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:17:17 pm CDT

The problem with the webpages is that there is no direct link to them for a new comer to GS.

It has been attempted to have the link on the entrance page altered to the Angelfire website, but the WebMaster wishes for it to remain as it is. A link to an obsolete site.

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:17:47 pm CDT

snowrose teaches from the webpages, as she was taught..but if it says it then dance there, but not when there are Free to be served in the tavern, please

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:18:46 pm CDT

there is a direct link below this box...help, room info, changing rooms etc

Lita, Physician 21:18:49 pm CDT

Well, it is confusing to say one thing in one place, and another elsewhere.

fidget {GS} ~t 21:18:51 pm CDT

fidget would never think to ignore the tavern if she is elsewhere ~ whether it be the baths, kennels or piazza

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:20:27 pm CDT

A girl thinks it would go without saying that if a Free Person was anywhere with Gorean Shores, this girl would never ignore them. The only exception is when slave class is being conducted.

Lita, Physician 21:21:06 pm CDT

snow, perhaps it is my computer, but when I clicked on the Room Info link below the box here, it led me to a blank screen.

lilith {GS} 21:21:18 pm CDT

*nods to flickas words*

shimmer{GS} 21:21:37 pm CDT

and if visitors come in to GS that is the first thing they see of GS it should be what GS goes by or it should be changed so there is no contradiction.

but shimmer would never ever neglect service to the Free ever.she likes her flesh ivory white not pink or red striped...

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:21:52 pm CDT

for this girl also Mistress Lita, but flicka already knew that.

Dak 21:21:54 pm CDT

it's getting late, do all want to keep discussing this topic ?

Tanthio§ 21:21:57 pm CDT

Me as well Lita

Lita, Physician 21:21:58 pm CDT

Could someone else check that link to see if it is just Me please?

hulya{GS} 21:22:10 pm CDT

Agrred shimmer

fidget {GS} ~t 21:22:34 pm CDT

Mistress ~ it is indeed a blank page

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:22:43 pm CDT

oh, it takes her to the info page

lilith {GS} 21:22:46 pm CDT

It goes to a blank page for lilith as well Mistress Lita

Lita, Physician 21:22:58 pm CDT

Thanks, Tanthios

And I am going to have to leave soon anyway.

hulya{GS} 21:23:42 pm CDT

For hulya it says that the address is not found

Dak 21:24:19 pm CDT

it opens for Me, it is the first page after the login page

Tanthio§ 21:24:30 pm CDT

Well indeed Dak. this is a never ending topic that the Council needs to resolve.. the sooner the better. I am done with this.

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:24:48 pm CDT

hmmm she always goes in by her bookmark toolbar...she will advise the Slave Master...but He is going to be away for a week...not sure what day He leaves

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:27:10 pm CDT

Master Dak, flicka is not sure, but that link will take You she thinks, to the old web pages.

Dak 21:27:14 pm CDT

aye, so it is, *smiles*, I will call the Forum to close, and thank all for coming and participating in the discussions

thanks flicka for scribing

shimmer{GS} 21:27:24 pm CDT

from the web page..

why would it have a separate sand pit if slaves were not to dance in it.

To one side is a smaller sand pit where patrons and slaves can use practicing .

Dak 21:28:02 pm CDT

which link are we talking about ?

shimmer{GS} 21:28:34 pm CDT

thank you for leading Master Dak

Thank you for scribing flicka

flicka-slave of Keeper 21:28:59 pm CDT

~smiles~ and thank You also Master Dak for moderating and leading.

snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:29:13 pm CDT

Thak You for leading Master Dak..

and thank you for scribing flicka

Tanthio§ 21:29:41 pm CDT

Thank You Dak for the lead and flicka for the scribing

lilith {GS} 21:29:57 pm CDT

thank You for leading Master Dak

thank you for scribing flicka

hulya{GS} 21:30:20 pm CDT

Thank you for leading Master Dak and for scribing flicka

Bretval, Merchant 21:30:29 pm CDT

Thanks Dak for leading

and flicka for scribing

fidget {GS} ~t 21:30:54 pm CDT

thank you, Master Dak and flicka