Present:
Thadron
Jarl Thorrn
Dak
Kazar
Tanthios
Lita
karinda
giani
iana
jalea
snowrose
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:37:01 pm CST
My humblest apologies for My late arrival...
please whisper me any items for discussion tonight...
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 19:37:15 pm CST
Thadron
It is good to have You back
We already assumed already that You took all the slaves with You on Your journey *grin*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:40:54 pm CST
~a large smile on My face...~ of course I was well attended on My travels... I have no complaints of the slaves I had about
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:49:05 pm CST
you are welcome, jalea.. and GS is a good place to learn...
I am ready to open Forum tonight... a reminder, while Forum is open, all can speak freely, Free or slave, and all social chat and greetings must be kept in whispers to allow for scribing..
just one moment and I will post the first topic
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:53:26 pm CST
On the web page for GS,the instructions for serving kla-la-na say the slave must pull the cork from the bottle with her teeth. Now GS claims to go by the books, so I have done some searching. I have found quotes on serving ka-la-na, but not a single one that I have so far found shows the girl pulling the cork with her teeth. I have also looked at the serving rules for various other Gor sites that I ran across, and not a single one instructs their slaves to do this. So why are We REQUIRING it in each and every ka ka-la-na serve? I could see doing it once in a while as a variation, but not as a regular requirement.
Here is our web page instructions:
"Ka-la-na: very potent dry red wine made from the fruit of the ka-la-na tree and is said to have an aphrodisiac effect on females
· served in a goblet
· chilled: bottles in cold room
· can also be served room temperature
· hot: small kettle over the fire (do not stir!)
· reminder: uncork bottle with teeth
. bring the bottle and goblet to the Free, serve at their feet "
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 19:55:33 pm CST
Some times Port Kar is special, Thadron
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:55:56 pm CST
May I start by saying one thing for clarification:
GS has always strove to go by the books as best we can online... not at all costs... I want to make sure that every one is clear that we do continue to make some small provision for the fact that this is an online forum.. though I am not sure this item would fall in that bucket...
I have a few pages of quotes that will reinforce the statement as we discuss...
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 19:56:45 pm CST
what is wrong with the way girls serve kalana here?
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 19:57:30 pm CST
so it isn't mentioned in the books.. it adds sensuality and style to a girl's serve.. the books don't mention reaching up on tip toes for a goblet either.. but we all do it
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 19:57:50 pm CST
iana
It is not about if it is wrong to do that It is about if the way of having the slaves opening the bottles with their teeth is according to the Gorean books
Dak 19:58:00 pm CST
well, to My knowledge, the serves of GS are an onlinism, I assume to make online Gor more colourful and entertaining !
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:58:01 pm CST
snowrose, can you confirm that the quote at the bottom of the first post is indeed how we teach the serving of ka-la-na wine
Lita, Physician 19:58:31 pm CST
iana, it is not "wrong". Pulling the cork with the teeth is just not done in the books that I can find. And, to make it a requirement in each and every serve, does not allow for any variation or creativity on the part of the slaves serving. Makes too much for cookie cutter serves.
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 19:59:43 pm CST
perhaps not wrong then.. but isn't it the same for the way a girl enters the cold room? or pulls a vessel off the shelf?
Dak 20:00:14 pm CST
in the 11 years I've been around GS it has always been done this way, I have no knowledge of how or when it was began !
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 20:00:43 pm CST
it is up to the girl to add detail and become creative.. .. if everything were done "by the books" it would, in this girl's opinion, be extremely boring..
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:00:49 pm CST
yes Master...that is how snowrose was taught, and how it's always been done since she has been here...she seems to vaguely remember reading it in one of the books, but not sure...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:01:00 pm CST
and iana.. unless prohibited in GS as some things are... then it is up to your Master how you serve in GS and it is His responsibility for how you serve in GS... If the Council doesn't agree with that, then your Owner will hear about it..
Dak 20:01:55 pm CST
exactly, iana , *smiles*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:02:10 pm CST
Here are a few of the ka-la-na quotes that I have found so far:
"Come closer," he said. I heard the bells of a slave girl approach him. I stopped, head down, several feet from him. My bare feet sunk into the deep, soft, scarlet, intricately wrought rugs which floored the tent. I felt the pile about my ankles.
"Come closer," he said. Once again there was a rustle of slave bells. I stood before him. "Lift your head, Girl," he said. I looked into his eyes. I wore his collar. I quickly dropped my head. I felt his large hands part the bit of silk that I wore and, gently, drop it about my ankles. He turned from me and went to sit down, cross-legged, some feet behind the tiny fire in the fire bowl. We regarded one other. "Serve me wine," he said. I turned and, among the furnishings of the tent, found a bottle of Ka-la-na, of good vintage, from the vineyards of Ar, the loot of a caravan raid. I then took the wine, with a small copper bowl, and a black, red-rimmed wine crater, to the side of the fire. I poured some of the wine into the small copper bowl, and set it on the tripod over the tiny fire in the fire bowl. He sat cross-legged, facing me, and I knelt by the fire, facing him.
After a time I took the copper bowl from the fire and held it against my cheek. I returned it again to the tripod, and again we waited.
I began to tremble. "Do not be afraid, Slave," he said to me. "Master!" I pleaded. "I did not give you permission to speak," he said. I was silent. Again I took the bowl from the fire. It was now not comfortable to hold the bowl, but it was not painful to do so.
I poured the wine from the small copper bowl into the black, red-trimmed wine crater, placing the small bowl in a rack to one side of the fire. I swirled, slowly, the wine in the wine crater. I saw my reflection in the redness, the blondness of my hair, dark in the wine, and the collar, with its bells, about my throat. I now, in the fashion of the slave girl of Treve, held the wine crater against my right cheek. I could feel the warmth of it through the side of the crater.
"Is it ready?" he asked. A master of Treve does not care to be told what his girl thinks it is. He wishes to be told Yes, or No. "Yes," I whispered. I did not know how he cared for his wine, for some men of Treve wish it warm, almost hot. I did not know how he wished it. What if it were not as he wished it!
"Serve me wine," he said. I, carrying the crater, rose to my feet and approached him. I then knelt before him, with a rustle of slave bells, in the position of the pleasure slave. I put my head down and, with both hands, extending my arms to him, held forth the wine crater.
"I offer you wine, Master" I said. He took the wine, and I watched in terror. He sipped it, and smiled. I nearly fainted I would not be beaten. I knelt there, while he, at his leisure, drank the wine."
Page 331 - 332 - Captive of Gor
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:03:20 pm CST
let's read the quotes so far I have not seen how the bottles are opened... if you see one in the quotes point it out to us all
Tanthio§~~~ Master of iana 20:05:28 pm CST
I think the rule was made with the vision of a slaves mouth upon the neck of the bottle for sensual reason way back when.. It should be an option if the one serving wishes to do so that way or not.
Lita, Physician 20:05:30 pm CST
iana, "by the books", the slaves varied their serves. No slave in the books ever served things the way they are done on-line.
*chuckle* I was just thinking of allowing more variety in serves, so there is more interest in them. So serves don't get boring and aren't all alike. I used to know a slave who would sometimes...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:06:30 pm CST
It is served chilled or at room temperature. Book 1: Tarnsman of Gor, pages 26, 79, 96, 168;
Book 4: Nomads of Gor, page 151;
Book 7: Captive of Gor, pages 114, 331, and 332;
Book 15: Rogue of Gor, pages 158 and 375;
Book 21: Mercenaries of Gor, pages 344 and 360
Little pock-face,' called Relius. 'I would be served.' Virginia Kent, with her pitcher of Ka-la-na, ran lightfootedly to Relius, guard in the House of Cernus. 'Let Lana serve Relius wine.' said another girl, a Red Silk Girl, first to the guard, leaning towards him, lips parted. Relius put out his cup but before the girl could pour the wine she seemed suddenly to fly off the back of the dias, the seat of her tunic firmly gripped in the small hand of Virginia Kent, Lana landed with a considerable bump on the stones of the hall, the wine flying backward. 'Relius guards Virginia,' the young slave girl from Earth informed collared, Red Silk Lana.
Assassins of Gor --pg. 238
Aphris got up and fetched not a skin, but a bottle, of wine, Ka-la-na wine, from the Ka-la-na orchards of great Ar itself. She also brought a black, red-trimmed wine crater from the isle of Cos.
“May I serve you?” she asked.
Kamchak’s eyes glinted. “Yes,” he said.
She poured wine into the crater and replaced the bottle. Kamchak had watched her hands very carefully. She had had to break the seal on the bottle to open it. The crater had been upside down when she had picked it up. If she had poisoned the wine she had certainly done so deftly.
Then she knelt before him in the position of the Pleasure Slave and, head down, arms extended, offered him the crater.
Nomads of Gor Book 4 Page 151
------------------------------ "Clitus, too, had brought two bottles of Ka-la- na wine, a string of eels, cheese of the Verr and a sack of red olives from the groves of Tyros."
- Raiders of Gor p 114
"I had tarsk meat and yellow bread with honey, Gorean peas, and a tankard of diluted Ka-la-na, warm water mixed with wine."
- Assassin of Gor p 87
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:06:45 pm CST
probably some long ago slave did it to be sexy, and others kept it up, and the Captains at the time like it...the books don't say a slave was forbidden to do it
Dak 20:07:09 pm CST
I can go to the local bar for varied serves ! I get a real drink there !
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:08:13 pm CST
Dak
did you get a slave-like service at that bar? If yes, post the addy *g*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:08:33 pm CST
Here we go....
Kamchak had watched her hands very carefully. She had had to break the seal on the bottle to open it. The crater had been upside down when she had picked it up. If she had poisoned the wine she had certainly done so deftly.
Tanthio§~~~ Master of iana 20:08:42 pm CST
Chuckles
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 20:08:49 pm CST
iana supposes it is not the pulling of the cork that has twisted her own cork so to speak but the remark about "going by the books"... it's impossible..
Lita, Physician 20:09:11 pm CST
say the cold room door stuck, and when she pulled it hard to get it open, it gave suddenly and knocked her ass over teakettle clear across the kitchen. she didn't do that every time., but when she did it always brought a chuckle. And that of course isn't in the books either, but slaves didn't have to go to the cold room every time they served, either.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:10:29 pm CST
iana,didn't I already address that we don't go by the books explicitly... there are many instances where we don't and really can't
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 20:11:39 pm CST
You did Master Thadron... she was only stating that she agrees with that.. and explaining herself, she will go silent if that is Your preference
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:12:25 pm CST
iana
going by the books doesn´t imply all and everything what is done in Port Kar
But it is one goal of the life in GS to be not far from the books, so there can be lots of discussions about details. If it is meant to be strongly like the books or more freedom. That discussion will never end
Dak 20:12:52 pm CST
when we used to have the older experienced slaves around they used to do that frequently, Lita, most of things are learned from previously experienced slaves, and of which, we don't have many from the old GS
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:12:58 pm CST
what I am hearing is a request for more variety and creativity in serves... but that makes it hard for trainers to train than to have some strong basis for what a serve is to be...
I believe the Council approves of creativity ....
iana {T§}~~His Pet~~ 20:13:15 pm CST
she nods.. going quiet..
Lita, Physician 20:13:38 CST
iana, it is partly a matter of if the rules say this thing must be done this way each and every time, the slaves don't tend to get creative, for fear of doing something wrong.
And in the books, were done differently in the different cultures around the planet. The way We do things on-line, all the same,tends to get very boring sometimes.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:14:02 pm CST
chuckles @ Lita
Funny actions like that are always estimated as additional spice.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:14:27 pm CST
iana, I was just hoping that I had been heard... your comments are welcome... and I love it when I am agreed with ~winks~
Lita, Physician 20:15:44 pm CST
I wouldn't mind seeing a slave pull a cork with her teeth now and them, but it would be nice also to see them occasionally pull it with fingers, or, say, can't get it out and have to go get a pair of pliers to pull it with, stuff like that.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:16:41 pm CST
to be honest snowrose teaches by the manual...to be sure the girls know the steps of a serve, the other protocols...but when they're serving, and when she is serving, we don't follow it slavishly...she thinks we all try to spin it a little...but then a Free will complain about that at times...we're slaves, we can't win for losing
Dak 20:17:03 pm CST
I think it is very difficult for slaves to be creative, when the person being is more concerned with how quick they serve than how creative the serve is !
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:17:20 pm CST
I think, going by the books is a kind of framework to stick to, to have a basic common understanding in the training of slaves and expectations a Master can have on a slave Beyond that framework variety and fantasy is very welcome, at least for Me
May be Wwe should remember that habits of Gor ar often explained in the books with varieties in the different towns of Gor
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:18:52 pm CST
~chuckles~ as with bringing in new girls that have to learn.. we have a basic structure for a slave to follow...
I agree with iana that creativity should be exhibited and allowed and I agree with Thorrn that as we discuss details we will always find things that are not strictly by the books.. the importance in My mind, is .. are we doing something that would never be done on Gor? if so we need to discuss that item... if there is the possibility that it could be done on Gor.. then I have some leniency
Lita, Physician 20:18:57 pm CST
Now I know having a lot of variety makes it a bit difficult for the trainers, and I know the girls would rather have everything 1..2...3...4... etc., so no one can object to what they do. But I think we have a group of intelligent slaves, and certainly our trainers and first girl are the best, so I think we could all handle it if everyone, slaves included, could use their brains.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:19:59 pm CST
framework is exactly the word going through My mind, thank you Thorrn...
Dak 20:20:11 pm CST
that is true, Thorrn, many of the things in GS are from other books, not just Raiders mixed together , to make the scene more enjoyable
Lita, Physician 20:20:47 pm CST
That is a good point, Dak. Perhaps We as Free need to be more careful to ask for a harta serve if we are in a hurry for some reason and don't wish to give the girl time to be creative.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:21:52 pm CST
"Ka-la-na: very potent dry red wine made from the fruit of the ka-la-na tree and is said to have an aphrodisiac effect on females
• served in a goblet
• chilled: bottles in cold room
• can also be served room temperature
• hot: small kettle over the fire (do not stir!)
• reminder: uncork bottle with teeth
. bring the bottle and goblet to the Free, serve at their feet "
looking at this closer I can justify why it is taught this way... if a girl uses her own lips to uncork the wine she can't be poisoning it... so for a Tavern in Port Kar to require it, I don't think it is extraordinary
karinda {GS} 20:22:05 pm CST
sometimes karinda wishes she didnt have to count how many posts she makes for a serve.....worrying she doesn't have enough or too much.....in her words......lowers her eyes and hushes her lips now
Dak 20:22:35 pm CST
aye, that is the reason for a harta serve, *smiles*, which also I've never seen in the books
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:23:21 pm CST
Lita
I´m too sure Wwe have some lovely and intelligent slaves in Port Kar
But as snowrose already mentioned, when there is a rule about something a slave will have to be prepared that a Master (or a Mistress getting her Black Wine) insists in the slave following the rule or she gets scolded or punished.
So it is better to get clear what are rules and where varities are allowed or welcome
Dak 20:24:07 pm CST
aye, Captain, and is probably the reason for that procedure,
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:25:10 pm CST
wine can be served from a pitcher as well.. and we do it when we serve "Northern style"
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:25:17 pm CST
karinda, that is what snow means...as long as all the actions are performed and the serve is broken up, not huge posts, she doesn't care if it's short a post...if a serve is sensual, captivating, interesting, that's what matters
Lita, Physician 20:25:38 pm CST
But Thadron, in the books the Free weren't always worried about being poisoned. In fact, in all the books I think there was only one incident in which a Master ordered a slave to taste His drink for poison , and that was because He KNEW she had tried to poison it. The Free weren't always concerned that Their drinks might be poisoned, not even in Port Kar. And, if the girl opens the bottle in front of Them, They cold SEE if she tried to put anything into the bottle., or for that matter into the wine after it was poured.
karinda {GS} 20:26:10 pm CST
nods to snowrose
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:26:21 pm CST
Thadron
Well, if a slave has to open the ka-la-na wine bottle with her teeth then i would poison the bowl with paga, the tankard with ale or the plate of verr slices or fruits or verr cheese What makes the wine so special for poisoning it?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:27:39 pm CST
karinda.. we teach the many steps for the reason to show that a girl has put thought into each part of her serve... I concur with snowrose.. a well thought out and sensual 4 post serve is often better that a 5 or 6 post serve.. but in teaching... we are giving a framework that can be followed...
Lita, Physician 20:28:05 pm CST
Thadron ka-la-na could also be served "mulled" and from a crater. Saw a couple of quotes on that too, though I'm not sure if I saved them
Dak 20:28:06 pm CST
when I came to GS , it was common for a slave to taste the offering, but they did drop it a few years later , saying it was presumed everything in GS was safe !
Dak 20:28:47 pm CST
But GS has always been the bottles
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:29:52 pm CST
I think you can find more than one instance, Lita...
what about Assassins?
the point I was making that in a place of thieves and cutthroats that is Port Kar, it isn't too far off the course to believe that a Tavern Owner would make rules like this for the slaves
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:30:15 pm CST
isn't that kalda Mistress
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:30:20 pm CST
I posted the one about the crater, Lita...
Lita, Physician 20:30:40 pm CST
Goreans in the books just didn't concern Themselves a whole lot withthe possibility of being poisoned. for one thing, should a Free die of poison, the slave who served Them would immediately be deemed guilty and killed, whether she actually did the poisoning or not. Whisper from karinda was that post for Thadron.....it is an interesting idea snow....
Lita, Physician 20:32:26 pm CST
snow, kalda is a bit different than mulled ka- la-na. Sometime when I have time I'll dig up the differences for you. I have yet to hear anyone on-line aske for mulled ka-la-na anyway. "chuckle"
giani{GS} 20:32:32 pm CST
personally as long as the slave remembers to uncork the bottle (which at times girl has accidentally forgotten) it should not matter how it got uncorked.. cause personally has anyone in r/t tried to open a bottle of wine with their teeth.. it has so much pressure it probably would knock out the teeth when the cork popped free...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:32:48 pm CST
"Come closer," he said. I heard the bells of a slave girl approach him. I stopped, head down, several feet from him. My bare feet sunk into the deep, soft, scarlet, intricately wrought rugs which floored the tent. I felt the pile about my ankles.
"Come closer," he said. Once again there was a rustle of slave bells. I stood before him. "Lift your head, Girl," he said. I looked into his eyes. I wore his collar. I quickly dropped my head. I felt his large hands part the bit of silk that I wore and, gently, drop it about my ankles. He turned from me and went to sit down, cross-legged, some feet behind the tiny fire in the fire bowl. We regarded one other. "Serve me wine," he said. I turned and, among the furnishings of the tent, found a bottle of Ka-la-na, of good vintage, from the vineyards of Ar, the loot of a caravan raid. I then took the wine, with a small copper bowl, and a black, red-rimmed wine crater, to the side of the fire. I poured some of the wine into the small copper bowl, and set it on the tripod over the tiny fire in the fire bowl. He sat cross-legged, facing me, and I knelt by the fire, facing him.
After a time I took the copper bowl from the fire and held it against my cheek. I returned it again to the tripod, and again we waited.
I began to tremble. "Do not be afraid, Slave," he said to me. "Master!" I pleaded. "I did not give you permission to speak," he said. I was silent. Again I took the bowl from the fire. It was now not comfortable to hold the bowl, but it was not painful to do so.
I poured the wine from the small copper bowl into the black, red-trimmed wine crater, placing the small bowl in a rack to one side of the fire. I swirled, slowly, the wine in the wine crater. I saw my reflection in the redness, the blondness of my hair, dark in the wine, and the collar, with its bells, about my throat. I now, in the fashion of the slave girl of Treve, held the wine crater against my right cheek. I could feel the warmth of it through the side of the crater.
"Is it ready?" he asked. A master of Treve does not care to be told what his girl thinks it is. He wishes to be told Yes, or No.
"Yes," I whispered. I did not know how he cared for his wine, for some men of Treve wish it warm, almost hot. I did not know how he wished it. What if it were not as he wished it!
"Serve me wine," he said. I, carrying the crater, rose to my feet and approached him. I then knelt before him, with a rustle of slave bells, in the position of the pleasure slave. I put my head down and, with both hands, extending my arms to him, held forth the wine crater.
"I offer you wine, Master" I said. He took the wine, and I watched in terror. He sipped it, and smiled. I nearly fainted I would not be beaten. I knelt there, while he, at his leisure, drank the wine."
Page 331 - 332 - Captive of Gor
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:32:56 pm CST
yes Mistress she knows it has juice too...
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:34:06 pm CST
nods to giani
I never heard about tooth doctors on Gor and when the slaves would uncork bottles by teeth they surely would need one from time to time *l* I wouldn´t want to do that in rt
Dak 20:34:28 pm CST
there are many things in the rules directed at the possibility of poisoned needles, like when a slave enters and splays her fingers, I don't know how many know that is so a slave can't hide a poison needle between her fingers
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:37:24 pm CST
I don't feel there is a reason to change the way this is taught...
the slave as snowrose said so eloquently, cannot win.. the Free is always right...
however, I like the thought of the seal from the quote from Relius... that I posted earlier.. and will work with snowrose to come up with maybe an update to the rules when the corks get updated.. of course any change will be voted on by the council....
a girl will not be punished for being creative when she is honestly trying to please... she may be corrected and all of us have proven capable of correcting a slave...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:38:42 pm CST
this topic is closed
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:40:00 pm CST
~smiles~ next topic has to do with pointing out how quickly a woman from earth can be enslaved. It is from Book 27, Prize of Gor
"For these personal reasons, reasons of a rather particular nature, it amused me to bring her here, and have her enslaved." "Was she troublesome on Earth?" asked one of the men.
Mirus smiled.
"Perhaps she once entered a line, or a door, before you, not invited to do so, but as though it were her right?"
"Perhaps she cast you a haughty glance, or once spoke shortly to you?" suggested another. Ellen then began to grasp how easily a woman of Earth, and with so little awareness, thinking herself superior and safe, might court the collar of a slave. A movement, a glance, a word, a gesture which might cause no more than a moment’s irritation or disgruntlement to a typical male of Earth, used to such abuse, might have different consequences altogether with another sort of man, a man less tolerant and less accommodating than those on whom she was accustomed to inflict her pettiness and disdain with impunity. "We will come back for her," might say a Gorean slaver. "That one does not know it but she has just made herself an appointment with the slaving iron." How differently would a woman of Earth behave before a man, thought Ellen, if she realized that one day she might find herself at his feet, on her belly, stripped and chained, his slave.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:40:21 pm CST
damn, slaves can be so dangerous
poisoned wine, poisoned needles
I will have to check My slave more thoroughly *grin*
Lita, Physician 20:40:33 pm CST
The one thing I liked about that quote, Thadron, is that it showed that the slaves were always in fear of displeasing the Free. They could not hide behind a rote way of serving that was "the" way to do it, and if the Free was displeased say, "well that's how we do it here". If the Free was displeased, He/She could punish the slave regardless. And Tavern slaves were particularly subject to this, as Taverns catered to travellers from other parts of the world of Gor, where things might be done differently. iana is right, the slave cannot win. That is part of what slavery means. A slave in a Tavern could never get comfortable and think she had it all down and could never get into trouble by serving "wrong" because whatever she did, someone from somewhere else might want it done differently. And the Free in the books didn't feel the need to TELL the slave specifically how They wished to be served. The slave was just supposed to know. As that quote shows.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:41:39 pm CST
well said, Lita
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:42:37 pm CST
~wonders how that would be possible, her Master already so very thorough
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:43:24 pm CST
a good hint for the slaves, Lita
Don´t complain, try to read the mind of the Master and be pleasing, if you fail - and is ALWAYS you who fails - bear the consequences
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:43:51 pm CST
snowrose, I do appreciate you picked the most appropriate icon for discussing serving from a bottle
Lita, Physician 20:44:13 pm CST
*laughs* Thadron. Free Women couldn't win either. Remember when Hilda the Haughty walked behind Ivar Forkbeard. It was commented that doing so was "slavelike" and could get Her a collar.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:44:34 pm CST
reads the long lists in which Free Women from Earth can fail with Gorean Males óbserving them on Earth
I like that list of reasons to enslave a Woman *eg*
Lita, Physician 20:44:50 pm CST
quote You just gave, She couldn't have walked in front of Him either!
karinda {GS} 20:45:21 pm CST
karinda always fears of displeasing Free........so she nods at Mistress Lita's post.....and Master Thadron of course.
Lita, Physician 20:46:21 pm CST
I think perhaps if I ever walk with a Gorean male, I'd best be sure he is in a collar and leash, just to make things clear!
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:47:17 pm CST
*LOL* @ Lita
then it wouldn´t be a gorean Male but a gorean male slave
Well, some Mistresses of silk male slaves . .
giani{GS} 20:47:58 pm CST
if girl is not in a state of some f ear then she is not a true slave.. for a girl should never get so comfortable to think she is above being punished.. or that is this girls way of thinking.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:48:05 pm CST
I always wondered why you are brave enough to come to a Gorean paga tavern unescorted,
Lita...
Lita, Physician 20:48:17 pm CST
Jarl Thorrn, a male slave did not have to be a 'silk" slave, even if owned by a Free Woman. I think it would be fun to own a thrall and
Lita, Physician 20:48:37 pm CST
NOT ever use him! *grins*
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:49:05 pm CST
But that remark about a FW losing whether She before or behind a Man shows something which is also part of the Gorean books ...
sometimes there are contradictions.
John Norman wrote so many years on them that He will have forgotten in later books what He wrote in the early books, i think
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:49:16 pm CST
wouldn't hurt My feelings if that is what you choose to do with a thrall, Lita ~laughs~
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:49:43 pm CST
yes, there are contradictions...
Tanthio§~~~ Master of iana 20:49:52 pm CST
Chuckles at Thorrn's comment
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:51:41 pm CST
btw, Lita
In the book i´m just readin (no 27) the word Thrall is also used for females slaves
Lita, Physician 20:52:05 pm CST
Two reasons, Thadron. first, the rules here state that Free Women ARE allowed in the Tavern. I was assured of that when I first came. Secondly, as a Physician, Im accustomed to going places Free Women normally don't go, in the practice of My Caste. Now if You were lying on the Tavern floor bleeding to death, I am sure You would not want Me to wait tilI could round up an escort before I would come attend You. Also, I am under contract to the Tavern to provide medical care for the slaves and Patrons. Give the girls their slave wine and such, Take care of the results of bar fights that break out. So there is some leeway there.
Dak 20:52:49 pm CST
aye, I noticed that, too, Thorrn, *smiles*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:53:28 pm CST
~laughs~ well said, Lita... though I have never read where a Free Woman was allowed in a paga tavern without escort in the books... have you?
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:53:39 pm CST
the definition is not gender specific to males ..
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:54:29 pm CST
snowrose
so far i assumed that thrall was specific for males slaves
Dak 20:54:31 pm CST
but in Marauders, they only used thralls referring to male slaves
Lita, Physician 20:55:32 pm CST
Actually, Thadron, I HAVE read that there were Taverns that catered to Free Women as well as Men. And remember the scene on the bridge in Ko-ro-ba when Talena demanded money from the Free Man to take the other Free WomaN TO GET A DRINK? aND hE OFFERED TO GO WITH THEM AND tALENA WOULD NOT LET hIM?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:57:04 pm CST
I would be interested in seeing those paga taverns with dancing slaves referenced...
Dak 20:57:07 pm CST
that was in Tarnsmen wasn't it , Lita
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:57:57 pm CST
The habits about FW, accompanied or not, being allowed in a Tavern, is answered in different ways in the books, it is said that it depends a lot from the habits in a town
karinda {GS} 20:58:20 pm CST
smiles as dancing is mentioned....she closes her eyes remember she danced twice this week......her body naturally sways.
Dak 20:58:29 pm CST
book 22 Dancer had a white silk slave dancing
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:59:11 pm CST
Thadron
I remember faintly that about taverns where FW are allowed it has been said that there shall be no slave dancing
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:59:34 pm CST
I need to read those quotes... I always thought a Free Woman to be vulnerable in a paga tavern... but I do know how Free Women in some towns can go unescorted... without fear
Lita, Physician 20:59:37 pm CST
Here is a quote from uBAR lUTHER'S sCROLLS ON tAVERNS WHERE fREE wOMEN WERE ADMITTED:
Free women are not permitted in most paga taverns though they are permitted entrance into a few. In some taverns, even families are permitted entrance. In such taverns, efforts are made to promote modesty and decorum. Men in these places try to restrain their natural tendencies so as to not offend the free women. Tavern owners would try to enforce this decorum so that they can maintain their reputation and protect their business. Men have plenty of taverns they can go to where they do not need to be restrained so there is no reason for them to do so in these places. Most free women though would rather not attend such establishments. They do not wish to see their men fawning over such lascivious kajirae.
Lita, Physician 21:00:58 pm CST
Yes, Dak, that was in Tarnsman
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:01:02 pm CST
well if that is the type of paga tavern you think GS is, then we have to change the rule
Lita, 21:02:15 pm CST
Again, as Free Women were expected to practice Their caste as Physicians, They would almost HAVE to be allowed to go places where Free Women did not ordinarily go.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:03:22 pm CST
I already said "well said" to your justification for being a physician in a paga tavern....
Lita, Physician 21:03:29 pm CST
Thadron, I did not say that GS is a "family" Tavern. What I am saying is that the rules say Free Women are permitted here. At one point they were not, then at some time that rule was changed. It's on the Web Pages.
Dak 21:03:36 pm CST
aye, well, that was Normans first book, I believe He made many adjustments after that and if you remember the Priest Kings burned Karoba by the 2nd book, *smiles*
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:03:59 pm CST
I prefer the tavern of GS to stay as it is and FW may be allowed to visit but Masters still can behave as it pleases them . ..
Dak 21:04:32 pm CST
aye, Thorrn
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:04:51 pm CST
I know Lita...
but nobody get the idea that GS is a "family" Tavern, it is not...
Lita, Physician 21:05:26 pm CST
Yes, Dak, they did,. but, I DON'T think the pRIEST kINGS BURNED kO-RO-BA for allowing Free Women IN some TaVERNS
*CHUCKLE*
Lita, Physician 21:06:03 pm CST
Sorry for the caps, folks. My keyboard is being a pain.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:06:06 pm CST
I thank everyone for open and honest discussion tonight...
Forum is closed...
thank you for scribing, snowrose...