Present:
Thadron
Ramses
Keeper
Dak
ShadowMaster
Lita
snowrose
nasreen
bria
atiya
natira
lilith
flicka
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:31:20 pm CST
why don't we get Forum started ..
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:35:05 pm CST
This is along one so read carefully: The Collar
Quotes For This Week
"In the eyes of Goreans, and Gorean law, the slave is an animal. She is not a person, but an animal. She has no name, saving what her master might choose to call her. She is without caste. She is without citizenship. She is simply an object, to be bartered, or bought or sold. She is simply an article of property, completely, nothing more." - Hunters of Gor, 148-9. "It was now out of the question that she, a slave, might serve Priest-Kings. The collar, by Gorean law, cancelled the past. When Sarpedon had locked his collar on her throat her past as a free woman had vanished, her current history as a slave had begun." - Tribesman of Gor, 107.
"What is the common purpose of a collar?" "The collar has four common purposes, Master," she said. "First, it visibly designates me as a slave, as a brand might not, it if should be covered by clothing. Second, it impresses my slavery upon me. Thirdly, it identifies my master. Fourthly__fourthly__" "Fourthly?" he asked. "Fourthly," she said, it makes it easier to leash me." He kicked her in the side. She winced. Her response had been slow..." - Explorers of Gor, 80
"The slave cannot free herself. She can be freed only by an owner. The condition of slavery does not require the collar, or the brand, or an anklet, bracelet or ring, or any such overt sign of bondage. Such things, as symbolic as they are, as profoundly meaningful as they are, and as useful as they are for marking properties, identifying masters, and such, are not necessary to slavery. They are, in effect, though their affixing can legally effect imbondment, ultimately, in themselves, tokens of bondage, and are not to be confused with the reality itself. The uncollared slave is not then a free woman but only a slave who is not then in a collar." - Renegades of Gor, 273
Questions
1) The cancelling of the past refers to the first time a slave is collared and not to each time a slave changes owners. True or False and please explain your answer. 2) Once a collar is placed on a slaves neck, they give up the respect of the Free and the right to expect her desires and wishes and needs to be fulfilled. True or False and please explain your answer. 3) A woman without a collar does not automatically make her free. Please explain why you agree or disagree with this statement.
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:40:25 pm CST
I think that queton #1 refers only to the first time a salve is collared ...but in practice when I collar a slave I consder ALL of her past to canceled for all practical purposes ... all I care is how she behaves in My collar
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:41:42 pm CST
#2 seems self-evident to Me ..it defines being a slave
Lita, Physician 19:41:44 pm CST
My thoughts on that are just slightly different. Though basically I agree, Ramses.
I think this question refers to Gorean Law, by the books. When a Woman was first collared, Her past as a Free Woman is wiped out as though it never existed. She no longer holds claim to any property She may have owned as a Free, nor can She be punished for any crimes She may have committed as a Free. After she is enslaved, as someone else mentioned, records were often kept. Training and/or changes in Ownership were recorded. If she is later Freed, her past as slave is not forgotten. The books say She must always keep with Her Her papers of manumission so that She can prove Her Freedom.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:41:58 pm CST
snowrose thinks that it does mean the first time she is collared...it is a monumental change in fortune, whether from Free Woman or Earth girl.
nasreen{TH} 19:42:21 pm CST
this one also thinks it means only the first time a collar is placed upon ones neck that it wipes out anything or anyone she may have been prior to the collar, be it a Gorean Free Woman or an earth girl brought to go on a slavers ship
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:43:06 pm CST
there is a significance to becoming slave and having any existence as free wiped out.... I agree....
I also agree with Ramses, that when you own a slave, all that matters is that that slave is yours, no previous history is important
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:43:22 pm CST
*nodding* I agree Lita ... but I always try to com eback to actual practice as well
Lita, Physician 19:43:48 pm CST
But in the books, Thadron, They did keep track, as I said below.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:44:57 pm CST
I am speaking as a Free Gorean Man who owns slaves, Lita.... and I too, think in practice, my opinion is validated
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:45:34 pm CST
the records are only to prove my ownership
natira{GS} 19:45:42 pm CST
natira was always taught that when going to a new owner her past is then erased as if it never existed before her current Master. she believes it helps the slave find the freedom in her collar
nasreen{TH} 19:46:48 pm CST
#2 once the collar is placed on the girl she gives up everything as she becomes just a beast...she has no respect and no desires expect to be pleasing to the Free...
atiya {GS} 19:46:52 pm CST
nods hearing natira atiya agrees
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:47:16 pm CST
agrees with nasreen
natira{GS} 19:47:52 pm CST
natira agrees with nassy, once the collar is around the slaves neck whether she was already slave or Free Woman turned slave. she gives up all rights and expectations save those that aim towards serving and pleasing her Master
nasreen{TH} 19:48:12 pm CST
Mistress Lita is right they kept record of the girls... but that doesn't mean her actions with a previous Owner were punished or rewarded by the new Owner
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:48:33 pm CST
this one doesn't think so really...she carries with her all the experiences and training she has...they make her who she is today...her loyalty may change to a new Master, but her past made her the slave He desires today
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:48:41 pm CST
thats why I care not about that previous history, nasreen
atiya {GS} 19:49:20 pm CST
plus a girl's past defines who she is
Lita, Physician 19:49:27 pm CST
Good point, snow.
natira{GS} 19:50:27 pm CST
that does make sense. girls training, her experience has developed her into what she is, what she meant is that whatever happened with previous owners is essentially negated. not quite forgotten but not in the forground either
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:50:31 pm CST
well, if a slave comes with good training, I will acknowledge that training... but that's my choice
Dak 19:50:33 pm CST
aye, snow, but the next Master may care not for your previous training and want you to do things differently , *smiles*
nasreen{TH} 19:51:24 pm CST
this one didn't say that it wasn't carried forward by the girl....of course the training and her past makes her who she is as a slave...
never forgetting to learn how to please her new Owner and that His/Her ways may be different from the last
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:51:30 pm CST
yes Master Dak...and she would adapt, but she is not a blank slate
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:54:49 pm CST
snow, what has shaped you into who you are may not matter to a Master who has purchased you at all....
that is quite feasible on Gor
natira{GS} 19:55:06 pm CST
natira thinks question number three is true. unless one accepts her slavery within the collar she won't be able to find true freedom within her collar/slavery. until she accepts it she will constantly be fighting a battle within herself and constantly be fighting the submission to the Owner
nasreen{TH} 19:57:41 pm CST
3) A woman without a collar does not automatically make her free. Please explain why you agree or disagree with this statement.
she thinks this one is referring to Free Woman, just because she is uncollared does not mean that she is not a slave...untrained...not yet shown how free the true slave truly is
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:58:21 pm CST
yes Master...she understands that, is just saying that it's unrealistic to expect the slave to wipe out her past...she knows her place in the scheme of things...but too she listens to You Masters reminisce, and who are the slaves You remember...the ones who are who are, whichever collar she wears
atiya {GS} 19:58:38 pm CST
atiya agrees with question number 3.a lot of women are slaves inside whether they know it or not and all it takes is the right Man to bring that side of her out
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:58:48 pm CST
these quotes can be taken out of context to be opposite in describing the meaning of a collar... On the one hand, it's a collar that determines you are not free and are slave and in the next breath, you are slave whether you are physically wearing a collar or not...
if you are slave you are slave, merely removing your collar does not make you Free
Lita, Physician 20:00:38 pm CST
nasreen, I think it also refers to slaves who may for whatever reason been freed. If she is still slave at heart, her Free Status doesn't change that, and she will most likely eventually return to a collar, willingly or not.
nasreen{TH} 20:01:09 pm CST
true Mistress Lita
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:01:43 pm CST
snowrose... nothing was said that you are to wipe out your past...
that in the eyes of your Master, he can choose to wipe out your past in dealing with you
Lita, Physician 20:02:08 pm CST
Thadron, someone once said that the bran d indicates you are slave, the collar merely says by Whom you are owned. So yes, you can be unowned, without a collar, and still be dslave at heart.
lilith {GS} 20:02:10 pm CST
*nods in agreeance with Mistress Lita*
atiya {GS} 20:02:24 pm CST
nods in agreement hearing Master Thadron and Mistress Lita
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:06:58 pm CST
ok ...it feels we may have worn that one out
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:07:36 pm CST
that was well said, Lita....
Lita, Physician 20:09:08 pm CST
Thak You, Captain. NOt my original thought, but, as I said, something I heard from someone else.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:10:27 pm CST
ok ... do we have another topic?
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:15:49 pm CST
ok, I have another topic ....
Many feel the site would be better if we attracted more Free Men...
any suggestions on how to do that?
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:16:33 pm CST
Ramses grins more slaves attract more free men
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:17:31 pm CST
Kazar... I think there are quite a few slaves in GS..... hot ones too
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:18:03 pm CST
we have some extremely hot slaves Kazar
natira{GS} 20:19:05 pm CST
actively participating more in the rooms? hard to do with a busy real life though
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:20:23 pm CST
grins yep plenty of hot ones here ~~~~~ always use more ~``~`~
HAS anyone heard from marieve
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:20:37 pm CST
It seems many outsiders read our boards...snowrose made a post to the slaves Wednesday and it's been read 79 times...perhaps we could post reminders a day or two before about forums and book club and game night..Invite Visitors to join us
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:20:50 pm CST
*chuckles*
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:21:26 pm CST
not a bad idea snow
Lita, Physician 20:31:37 pm CST
I think, to the original question about attracting more here, It's a vicious circle. It takes more Free Men present to attract more slaves, and it takes more slaves being in to attract Free Men. And on that note, perhaps I should leave, so the discussion may continue freely.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:34:18 pm CST
let's say there are slaves in GS....
and I have found even with this, that it's hard to attract Free Men...
what else can be done?
natira{GS} 20:35:06 pm CST
maybe setting up more events Master?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:35:59 pm CST
Again, with respect, this girl thinks that the Mistress is correct it is a vicious circle. Perhaps we should address practicalities. How to attract more Masters and more slaves. In other words more people.
natira{GS} 20:37:36 pm CST
natira is always talking to her Gorean friends trying to get them to come visit
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:40:33 pm CST
yes, more events to attract more people...
but I am interested in ways to make Gorean Males want to come here...
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:41:10 pm CST
Post in other gorean sites about events bring more here
Dak 20:41:23 pm CST
very few seem to want to learn Gor anymore !
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:42:33 pm CST
and why is that true.. what is online Gor missing that it once had?
nasreen{TH} 20:42:55 pm CST
tough Master's ....
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:43:05 pm CST
~very very softly, hoping she will not get jumped on~
flicka feels that we are very welcoming to slaves, we have things in place to make them feel a part of Gorean Shores from the very first time they step into the Tavern, with the "o" collar, then the GS collar, then the slave classes, the friendly help of the first girl and so on. But what about Masters? Often Men come into GS with perhaps a vague idea of Gor, a gut feeling of Mastery, perhaps only an incipient feeling toward that. What do we have in place to make them feel more comfortable?
nasreen{TH} 20:43:10 pm CST
role play
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:43:35 pm CST
yanks the chestnut locks atop my girls head~
excuse me, did you say something nasreen?
Dak 20:44:06 pm CST
well, what I hear from old Goreans, is that things aren't the way they once were ! back 10 years ago !
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:44:12 pm CST
The first thing to ask is what attracts people, who is our demographic?
The second thing is how to get that demographic to come here, why come to Gorean Shores?
The first thing is being addressed with updating a few things about the site.
I am still thinking of a POD (Point of Differentiation) for Gorean Shores.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:44:21 pm CST
exactly, flicka... now you are understanding my question
nasreen{TH} 20:44:32 pm CST
winces... aye Master girl did...
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:45:03 pm CST
offer mentorship?....a banner on the boards... People do read them...there are guests present almost every time snowrose goes to the boards
No disrespect, but she thinks new Free need help too
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:45:50 pm CST
the POD sounds interesting....
that would increase role play as well
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:46:49 pm CST
~smiles at the first girl for having the courage to say what flicka did not have the courage to say.~
Very few Men would leap from their mother's wombs shouting bring Me paga slave!!
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:47:14 pm CST
then They should come back and help make it that way Master...the slaves are limited in what they can do...and even now...slaves need to be reminded all the time that they are the ones who have to please the Free, not the other way around
nasreen{TH} 20:47:23 pm CST
giggles at flicka's words
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:48:38 pm CST
I think We mentor new Masters in an ad hoc way. Would it be beneficial to have a slightly more formalised system for those who are completely new to Gor.
Let's face it We may or may not be born Masters, but We are not born knowing exactly how a Master should act in this place.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:48:49 pm CST
~blushes and grows silent, hoping she has not been too bold
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:49:07 pm CST
the mentorship idea it seems is a great idea.. but we havne't been able to implement it...
I am sure with me it's because of time management... and priorities...
do you think if I held a forum during slave class titled "what is Gor about? for Free only, that anyone would come?
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:50:22 pm CST
~Laughing~
You read My mind flicka!
Although we have discussed similar ideas before!
nasreen{TH} 20:50:29 pm CST
it could be a start Master...it might take awhile for them to come around... at one time didn't the Free go over to the Gorean Inn during class?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:50:48 pm CST
Absolutely Master Thadron!!!!! Yes this girl thinks that Many would come.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:51:55 pm CST
~slipping her hand onto His thigh~ Aye my Jarl You have indeed infiltrated this girl's mind.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:52:14 pm CST
I think that is part of the problem Thadron. Not many Masters are willing to admit ignorance or lack of knowledge.
That is why a quiet, behind the scenes mentorship might be better
Dak 20:52:19 pm CST
well, at one time not long ago, they assumed if free ere in the Tavern, that they would be bothering the slaves !
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:52:41 pm CST
be careful if you are inside flicka's head, Keeper...
I fear it to be a very scary world ~winks at her~
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:52:46 pm CST
she thinks the Inn should be reclaimed in some way she knows it is not owned by GS, but it was created to be a place to show what Gor is like...it sits fallow now
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:53:47 pm CST
Keeper some would come here just ry and drag a slave too furr her
ShadowMaster - bria's Dark Master 20:55:20 pm CST
There are Those who are like that, Kazar, yes. They don't let GS be Their only hunting spot, either
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:55:29 pm CST
flicka's head is full of many things, and yes Thadron, it is a both a scary and challenging place to be!
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:55:47 pm CST
okay, a few good ideas...
The Council would like for Men to be Men here as well, so one thing that will be started is Thursdays we will have Sparring nights... it will be for training and for sport... contests will be saved for festivals
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:56:32 pm CST
oh that's wonderful Master Thadron
nasreen{TH} 20:56:37 pm CST
claps that is a wonderful idea Master
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:57:05 pm CST
Jarl, while a girl does agree that most Masters would be loathe to admit that They need "help" a girl thinks that while slave class was happening, it would be good for Masters to have an informal gathering, a "chewing of the bacon" (is that he right saying?) so to speak. Like when they are in the locker room and discuss the foibles of women and stuff. But it could have a more Gorean bent.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:57:23 pm CST
True, Kazar, but I think both you and ShadowMaster are right. It would have its good and bad side, like most things.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:57:42 pm CST
That is true Kazar and Shadow Master
we do teach the slaves how to handle what we call... HNG's... Horny Net Geeks
ShadowMaster - bria's Dark Master 20:57:57 pm CST
May I suggest that the Men keep it as sport, and not as actual combat, no seeking to actually cause harm?
natira{GS} 20:58:28 pm CST
~shivers and squirms at the thought of Men sparring and getting all...dirty and grins~ would slaves be able to watch ~looks all hopeful
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:59:10 pm CST
Keeper ``~yep i get some of gor not all still learning ~~ thier isnt a mentorship get one to the next level ``~ ~ havnt had a advisor to the council in a long time now
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:59:56 pm CST
~little wimper~ Master Thadron, but we girls would want to see You Men doing that.
~dreamy eyed as the smell of Man sweat, Men doing Manly things is remembered.~
Dak 21:00:08 pm CST
I mentor anytime I get the opportunity,
nasreen{TH} 21:00:28 pm CST
that is the night after class not during class
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:01:01 pm CST
well, the answer to that is yes, natira... but you will have to be clever to role play why a slave might be watching Warriors face off in the Training Yard... understand?
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 21:01:13 pm CST
Oh Yes please Thadron.
OOC- It has been 25 years since I held a Kendo shinai in My hand.
My swordplay does need improving Thadron.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:01:51 pm CST
bring towels and water to hand out during breaks between matches?
natira{GS} 21:01:53 pm CST
ai Master well understood ~grins~
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:02:03 pm CST
ah nasreen, a girl gets confused, so that would be Friday for her. Um she thinks.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:02:22 pm CST
yes, sparring in the training yard will be for sport and festival will be for sport as well...
natira{GS} 21:02:27 pm CST
be a cheerleader for the Master? all that jumping up and down of slave flesh may distract the Free though ~giggles~
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 21:02:39 pm CST
And lots of salve flicka for the bruising from rebunted weapons.
nasreen{TH} 21:02:39 pm CST
girl thinks that we would be there with towels, and cool drinks ....water not ale or paga during training...
towels to wipe the sweat away from One's brow
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:02:57 pm CST
gavnt spred on line have used swords in r/t ~~
natira{GS} 21:03:35 pm CST
~nods nods and thinks of the slaves being hailed as water girls during this~
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:03:44 pm CST
~laughing at the eagerness of we girls to get involved~
ShadowMaster - bria's Dark Master 21:04:13 pm CST
*has used different types of weapons RT and VT*
nasreen{TH} 21:04:15 pm CST
flicka class is on wednesday night or thursday morning for you so yes the sparring would be thursday night of friday morning
natira{GS} 21:04:37 pm CST
lol flicka, we slaves long to...get involved...with the Free whenever possible...especially if the Free get all hot and sweaty and mm yeah laughs
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 21:05:03 pm CST
mmm, naked cheerleader slaves!
Now that is something JN did not dream of!
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:05:43 pm CST
~laughing at natira~ down girl!
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:07:21 pm CST
a very good idea has been raised...
that we should do some activities.. like sparring on Friday nights that would make it easier for other time zones to participate... being the center of someone's weekend is easier to accomodate than the work week
natira{GS} 21:08:15 pm CST
~grins at flicka and winks~ see naked cheerleader slaves would be a great distraction for ones opponent
nasreen{TH} 21:09:24 pm CST
this one thinks friday night saturday morning would attract more people
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:09:50 pm CST
this place is often empty on Friday nights...
could you all respond if you would come on Friday nights, GS time?
natira{GS} 21:10:07 pm CST
agrees with the Friday night and Saturday activities
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:10:21 pm CST
ohhhhh Friday yaaaay..
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:10:44 pm CST
yayay... If it is on a Friday night it means that Jarl Keeper can come, for that is Saturday morning for Us. Oh frabjous day!!
nasreen{TH} 21:10:57 pm CST
she will try but as You are well aware Master her time has been taken with rt activities a lot lately
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:11:01 pm CST
I will bring the Friday night up with the Council....
natira{GS} 21:11:05 pm CST
Friday is perfect for natira, her school work rl tends to be completed and turned in by then so she has friday and sat free
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:11:07 pm CST
yes Master...Friday is better for her..unless she can't
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:11:56 pm CST
I do not know what Sandman and Ramses have going on Fridays...
but many Fridays I am free
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 21:12:43 pm CST
Another idea, and a possible POD is we should try to use more of the rooms, by that I mean, lets go the Bath-House, or the plaza etc on occasion. Variety is the spice of life.
nasreen{TH} 21:12:43 pm CST
she will do her best to get freed up in the evenings again
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:12:44 pm CST
ok that was a blonde moment
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:13:04 pm CST
thanks for you ideas... I think I will call Forum for tonight...
Thanks for scribing, flicka and to Ramses for leading
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:13:49 pm CST
~the bath house is her favorite place....she goes in and cleans at times, hoping to lure a dirty ole Master in
nasreen{TH} 21:14:02 pm CST
thank You Master for taking over for Master Ramses.. thank you flicka for scribing
natira{GS} 21:14:46 pm CST
~grins~ bathhouse can be quite fun
Dak 21:15:24 pm CST
Thanks Captains for leading
thanks flicka for scribing
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:15:29 pm CST
Thank You for continuing on with the forum Master Thadron/...and to Master Ramses..
and a heartfelt thank you to flicka for scribing...
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 21:15:36 pm CST
In absentia; Thank You Ramses for leading
Thank You Thadon
and of course, thank you flicka for the scribe thingo!
ShadowMaster - bria's Dark Master 21:17:15 pm CST thank You Captains, and flicka, of course for scribing
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:18:06 pm CST thanks for Leading Ramses /Thadron .
flicka for scribing
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:19:16 pm CST just a reminder, flicka is manning the scribe email...
I think it is gs-scribe@hotmail.com use it when things on the webpage need to be updated
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:20:06 pm CST
~laughing~ hmm mannning, yes Master Thadron, ~looking down at her newly acquired nether dangly bits~
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:20:40 pm CST
if it has to do with slave issues, please send an email to snowrose satindoll17@yahoo.com
natira{GS} 21:20:51 pm CST
snickers at flicka and covers her mouth straining not to guffaw and embarrass herself~
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:20:57 pm CST
I meant, flicka is whoring the scribe email..... looking for new Masters to pounce...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:21:59 pm CST
and of course, my email is open for GS business
as well as the Councils... goreanshores@hotmail.com