Present:
Sandman
Thadron
Thorrn
Dak
DoUrden
Lita
snowrose
nasreen
yata
GS forum 1-9-11.txt Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 19:18:14 pm CST
sits down in the furs, pats the place at My right
kneel My slave
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 19:19:25 pm CST
~lowers to kneel at Master's side, unrolling a scroll, plucking out the writing stick she keeps stashed beneath the furs~
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 19:20:46 pm CST
puts My hand on her neck, sofrly caressing her while she prepares to scribe *smiles and enjoys to feel her tender, glowing skin*
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:20:55 pm CST
walking into the room and sitting down
yata {Lita} 19:21:43 pm CST
*kicks the urt from her ankles and continues into the room, heeling her lady to the furs and kneeling at her left hand side, camisk settling on her body, the hem rising high upon her thighs, revealing them to be unbranded. Her round backside rests on her heels, her back is straight and veiled by her hair. Her head is high*
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:25:25 pm CST
smiling,, welcome to forum All
Thanks in advance for scribing pretty rose
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:26:23 pm CST
yall know the drill,, whisper topics to me,, keep the cross talk in whispers,, and respect for all
Dak 19:27:02 pm CST
entering the forum finding a place to sit
Tal Free
greetings slaves
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:28:25 pm CST
if any has a topic whisper it now
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:33:49 pm CST
smiling,, the following has been offered,, if a white silk is ordered by Free to nadu as opposed to tower ,, what should they do
nasreen{TH}t 19:35:53 pm CST
she should with respect refuse to do so explaining that she is a white silk and that she would be punished by her Owners...if the Free still insists c&p and send it to the first girl...
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:36:15 pm CST
smiling at nasreen
Thadron 19:36:28 pm CST
well, said, girl...
yata {Lita} 19:36:36 pm CST
May yata offer her opinion, Masters?
DoUrden 19:36:43 pm CST
I would think it depends on the situation for a Master may be wanting to see how a new girl may be doing in her learning and positions....but as I said situation is key
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:37:28 pm CST
you may of course offer your opinion yata
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 19:37:34 pm CST
This one would have respectfully told Him that her Owner does not permit it yet, but that she looks forward to naduing one day soon when she is fully trained...this one's Owner's wishes are supreme...
yata {Lita} 19:38:05 pm CST
Thank you, Master.
yata {Lita} 19:40:43 pm CST
this girl feels that, if the kajira is ordered by a free man to nadu, she should explain she is white silk. If however the man insists on it, the girl should again explain she is a white silk, but offer to nadu as kajirae should obey commands given by free persons, re-emphasizing that they are white silk. If it is expressly forbidden by their owner, the kajira should apologize and like the other said, explain they are forbidden to do so by their owner. As Master DoUrden said, it is situational.
yata {Lita} 19:41:20 pm CST
Especially in the case of tavern girls, who are not personally owned.
yata {Lita} 19:41:45 pm CST
yata has said her piece and she thanks you Masters for allowing her to share her thoughts.
Lady Lita 19:44:45 pm CST
I personally do not feel in this case that it is situational. the Web Pages state in two places that white silks must kneel Tower. Now other slaves who are not white silk, but who are restricted for whatever reason, it appears by the rules that they may kneel nadu but with palms down. But I don't see that in the rules applying to white silks. I can post the rules I am referring to if the
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 19:45:22 pm CST
a slave has always to obey the orders of her Master first as the captains are the owners of the Tavern slaves the white silk slaves are restricted by the orders of the Captain to kneel in nadu
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 19:46:09 pm CST
so a white silk tavern slave can not kneel in nadu no matter what another Master besides a captain orders her that is what I think
Lady Lita 19:46:36 pm CST
Now I know girls are used to having to obey whatever the Free say, and they have a hard time refusing. However, there is a hierarchy of rules, and I believe that the Owner's rules and the site rules supercede whatever the Other Free Person may wish. Am I wrong there?
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:46:58 pm CST
you are correct Thorrn,, GS owned white silks must do as ordered by their owners
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:47:22 pm CST
as for other slaves,, that is the business of their owners
Lady Lita 19:47:26 pm CST
The slave page titled "Training Levels" says the following: " * As a white silk, kneeling upon the serving furs or serving before a Free, will be done in the tower position. ie: slave kneels, their bottom resting on their heels with their back and shoulders straight, their chest out, belly in, and their head up, thighs are to remain touching with hands upon them, palms down, eyes averted. "
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/goreanshores/kajirainfo/training.html
Lady Lita 19:48:13 pm CST http://www.angelfire.com/vt/goreanshores/kajirainfo/positions.html
Positions
"If a command needs to be repeated as the saying goes, the girl needs to be punished."
Dancer of Gor, Page 211
" The slave, for example, and this is commonly included in their training, seldom bends over to retrieve a fallen object. Rather she flexes her knees, lowering the body beautifully, and retrieves the object from a graceful and humble crouch. "
Mercenaries of Gor, page 207
This page covers all the positions a slave should learn, including some unspoken commands. Some positions are illustrated thanks to Bladebane's ja'dain.
Nadu or pleasure slave position
the first and most often used of all of the Gorean slave positions, and one of the first a slave learns. the command gets its name, nadu, from the Gorean word for kneel. in this position the slave kneels and sits upon her heels with her back and shoulders straight, her chest out, belly in, and her head up, though she averts her eyes to the floor, her thighs are open, widely spread, her hands rest upon her thighs. a slave in GS is never to simply say she is doing "nadu", she is to describe it every time, her palms up on her parted thighs is to show she is for full sexual usage, palms down is to show she is restricted from sexual use
Kajira of Gor page 282
Tribesmen of Gor page 53
Slave Girl of Gor page 34
Savages of Gor page 155
Explorers of Gor page 166
Tower slave position
a slave kneels the same as nadu but with her knees modestly together, this variation is referred to as Tower and is typically reserved for white-silk slavegirls or slavegirls who serve a Mistress, this is a non-sexual position and palms would be down on thighs to signify this, may even cross wrist over her lap to show she is not for sexual use
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 19:48:30 pm CST
may i add something to Your words, Captain
other slaves also have to follow the orders of their Master first, the orders of another Master come in second line
at least that is what i expect from My slaves
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:49:55 pm CST
aye Thorrn as long as the orders of the second Master,, do not conflict with the orders of their owners
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 19:50:01 pm CST
girl can't imagine a real Gorean insisting she disobey her Owners
yata {Lita} 19:50:32 pm CST
yata ran into the situation the other night with a free man in the tavern, she knelts in tower, made her apologies and remained in tower, but offered to kneel in nadu if the man insisted. He declined and said this girl was fine as she was. Now, yata knows from her Mistress that she is to always kneel in tower, until or unless she is told otherwise. yata agrees that the one who owns the girl supersedes the orders of any other.
Dak 19:50:41 pm CST
I can't either snowrose
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:51:21 pm CST
smiling to rose,, unfortunately there are some that think they can Cap their names and magically become a Master
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 19:53:17 pm CST
To Me the orders of the second Master are ... second, in every case The slave will not be held responsible by Me when not obeying orders of another conflicting with the Owner´s orders. Of course the girl has to inform respectfully about her Master´s orders. When that master still insists it is His fault. A girl then better sees to take her leave to resolve the situation
yata {Lita} 19:55:00 pm CST
and if the free man insists on punishing the slave for not obeying? what should a girl do then, Master? if he tosses her in a cage? she cannot then take her leave.
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:55:06 pm CST
aye Thorrn,, you mention the way a slave can get out of the situation,, by leaving it
yata {Lita} 19:55:21 pm CST
not the girl's owner, but the free person, Masters.
nasreen{TH}t 19:56:19 pm CST
in that case a girl would enter the cage and wait for her Owner to come and release her...
in this one's mind..
Dak 19:56:26 pm CST the room has a logout button
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 19:57:05 pm CST
that is the fate of a slave, yata
A Free Person can cage her or punish her in any other way anytime, for any reason or even without a reason
Lady Lita 19:57:21 pm CST
Dak, I hate to say it but I have seen other places where slaves are required to obey the request of the Free present, regardless of their Owner's rules or the site rules. That is one of several reasons I wished to clarify this matter.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 19:57:44 pm CST
this one would submit to the cage and c&p it all to her Master
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:57:47 pm CST
yata if a Free does something such as that the slave should inform their owner/owners and the first girl via c+P with the string emailed,,, for example,, some idiot can come thru here pull out their sword and claim to kill everyone in the room,,,,, but the Council will rule as to whether anyone actually died,, or that the idiot suffered from delusions
Dak 19:58:02 pm CST
not here that I've ever known of !
yata {Lita} 19:58:04 pm CST
Yes, Master. kajirae are at the mercy of the free. yata would stay in the cage until fetched by her Mistress. *smiles at Master Thorrn*
yata {Lita} 19:58:41 pm CST
Thank you, Masters. yata is still new here and learning.
Thadron 19:59:09 pm CST
I would come and fetch My slave if she had been put in a cage as quickly as I could... I know that if any Free put nasreen in a cage she would enter and wait for Me to sort it out...
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:00:04 pm CST
good for the slaves is, even an idiot Master is a Master but good luck in GS the board of Captains can overrule even death
nasreen{TH}t 20:00:54 pm CST
nodding she knows her Master would come quickly for her...and He would have a c&p of the whole incident...
yata {Lita} 20:02:31 pm CST
this girl too would s&p the conversation to her Mistress, and wait to be fetched.
*smiling up at the lady in green robes, her eyes shining*
Thadron 20:03:24 pm CST
so if the situation was out of hand.. the girl didn't know what to do... she c&p'd it and logged out without saying a word... would that be acceptable behaviour for a slave?
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:03:26 pm CST
smiling,, any more discussion on this topic?
Lady Lita 20:03:46 pm CST
*smiling back at her girl*
nasreen{TH}t 20:04:44 pm CST
not for this slave it wouldn't be...
yata {Lita} 20:04:51 pm CST
*blushes lightly as her Mistress smiles at her* Master Thorrn brings up an excellent point.
yata {Lita} 20:05:11 pm CST
excuse this girl, she meant Master Thadron
Lady Lita 20:05:26 pm CST
Thadron, it would be for My slave. Unfortunately, the books operate on the assumption that everyone is sane and reasonable, and that Gor makes them that way. However, we all know the craziness that can happen on-line, and it's Our job to protect Our property from it as best We can.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 20:06:06 pm CST
yes Master Thadron, girl thinks it would be alright in extreme
circumstances...force used when told the act is not permitted...she would x out
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:06:45 pm CST
thinks, leaving without a word wouldn´t be acceptable for a slave the girl can post that she has to leave
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 20:06:58 pm CST
or she might cage herself
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:07:46 pm CST
smiles,, perhaps the girl might post that she heard her owner calling her and she had to leave
Lady Lita 20:09:15 pm CST
Good idea, Sandman, and We all know MY strident tones can be heard for parsecs! *grins*
yata {Lita} 20:09:41 pm CST
*giggles, having yet to hear her Mistress even raise her voice*
Thadron 20:10:01 pm CST
if nasreen were in the situation where she couldn't reason even to the point of submitting to the cage or being tied to a post till her Master could come.. I would want her to say that her Master that she cannot so she must beg to leave... give a chance.. then I would expect her to leave...
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 20:10:12 pm CST
yes girl didn't mean she wouldn't post, just not wait for permission
DoUrden 20:10:41 pm CST
~almost sputters laughing out at Her words~...Oh theres no debating that Lita....~winks~
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:12:58 pm CST
being caged or being tied to a post isn´t a severe thing to do to a slave so i think in such cases a slave has to deal with it even when she didn´t do anything wrong
It is Gor and that has not to be fair - it is ruled by the Masters
chuckles at Mine caging herself
wonders how she will lock the cage from inside and keep the Master out *g*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 20:13:41 pm CST
oh, she thought it would be self locking
Lady Lita 20:14:15 pm CST
*grins at Do Urden* That's how they train Tarns to fly over the Thassa. I stand on the shore and yell at them, and it scares them so they have flown out of sight of land before they even realize it! After that, the sea is nothing to them!
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:14:36 pm CST
even when it is selflocking, from outside the cage can be opened again or do you think a slave would be lost for ever in such case, My sly little slave?
yata {Lita} 20:14:50 pm CST
Jarl Thorrn has a point, Masters. and yata agrees with him, it is ruled by free men, who may do as they please to a slave. Unless the slaves owner is around and may naysay the other person.
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:15:27 pm CST
*LOL* @ Lady Lita
so you are the turnaround of scattering the walls of Jericho by trumpet sounds?
*grin*
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:15:54 pm CST
nodding to Thorrn,, slaves do need to be prepared for things that might otherwise seem unfair,, Free that are displeased by what most would judge a perfectly good serve.. but,, failing to obey the instructions of their owners,, should not be required of them
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 20:16:06 pm CST
~laughs~ girl admits she is not mechanically inclined my Master
yata {Lita} 20:16:08 pm CST
*laughs at her Mistress's words, having heard of the large birds.*
yata hopes to never hear you raise you voice at her Mistress. this girl fears she would go deaf!
Lady Lita 20:16:21 pm CST
You betcha Jarl Thorrn!
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:17:11 pm CST
nods to the Captain
that is where i see a limit too, a slave can not disobey her Owner - or there will be consequences
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:18:36 pm CST
i hear You Lady Lita
so as long as You are present in Port Kar the city will be safe *g*
yata {Lita} 20:18:37 pm CST
*shivers and wraps her hands around her body*
yata certainly has no desire to feel the slave goad.
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:20:17 pm CST
smiles,, any more discussion?
Thadron 20:21:07 pm CST
it was good to talk this case out, I think... I know I will be discussing it further with nasreen, so she knows what to do.. I will remind her that Gor is not tame and a slave is a slave, but in the end, please let sanity rule...
nasreen{TH}t 20:21:51 pm CST
nodding as Master says we will talk further on this..
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:22:45 pm CST
nods to Thadron
i think a good summary of the discussion and a good guideline for a slave to act along
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:24:27 pm CST
aye yata
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:25:39 pm CST
and it is a good point to discuss this further with One´s slave ... in privacy and with showing her what the power of the Owner over His property can mean *little grin*
yata {Lita} 20:26:10 pm CST
She is sure she knows the answer, but she wants to make sure she is understanding correctly.
A kajira , collared or not, must serve any free person within the limits of her owner's setting, and be fully pleasing. Is that correct?
yata {Lita} 20:30:25 pm CST
may yata be excused for rti? she will return shortly.
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:31:09 pm CST
yata is correct with her understanding of obeying
yata {Lita} 20:32:17 pm CST
Thank you, Master. yata was sure she was understanding correct.
Lady Lita 20:33:21 pm CST certainly, yata
Thadron 20:33:51 pm CST
but the limits her owner has set can be different from Free to Free... that is one use of the corks to post restrictions
Lady Lita 20:34:25 pm CST
Agreed, Thadron. *S*
nasreen{TH}t 20:35:04 pm CST
her restrictions are posted...and she offers to post them at any time.
. yata {Lita} 20:35:04 pm CST
Thank you, Mistress. yata wishes you well, and all the free well.
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:37:50 pm CST
if there is no more discussion,, another topic has been offered:
How many female slave are in Gor (rough percentage of females)
Lady Lita 20:39:31 pm CST
Do You men in the books, or on-line, Sandman?
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 20:41:06 pm CST
girl does not remember the percentage, but that is was small?
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:41:44 pm CST
I think the person wanted to discuss the comment that was made in the books that only a small percentage of Gorean women were slaves,, yet online,, perhaps the ratio is much different
Dak 20:42:28 pm CST
it's like 5 or 10%, I think
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:42:59 pm CST
in one book T.C. mentioned that 1 or 2 females out of 50 in a city are slaves, but when reading the books nearly females appearing in them are slaves - or became slaves till the end of the book *g*
Dak 20:43:07 pm CST
in the books
Thadron 20:45:47 pm CST
thanks for bringing that up... I would have thought the number to be much greater than that based on the fact that most female characters you meet in the books are at least at some point slave...
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 20:46:53 pm CST
well that makes sense really...submissive females are drawn to the idea of exploring this side of their nature online in a thrilling setting like Gor..
. Lady Lita 20:49:04 pm CST
Quote from Ubar Luther on the percentage of slaves, female AND male: "The Gorean novels portray a skewed image of the amount of slaves on Gor. As slaves are often important characters in the novels, the books at first glance might cause you to believe that most women were slaves on Gor. In actuality, only about 2 to 3% of all women on Gor are slaves. Free women vastly outnumber kajirae on Gor. These ratios do vary though from city to city. For example, in Ar there are about 20% slaves. In Tharna, after the revolution against the Tatrix, almost all of women in that city were slaves. (Online, the number of slaves is over 50%.) Of all the slaves on Gor, 90% of them are female. So, male slaves are a very rare item, only about .2 to .3% of the men on Gor. There are many terms used for female slaves such as chain sisters, slut, collar meat, tastas, tasty pudding, morsels, and candies. Kajira is one of the most common terms for a female slave. Sa-Fora, which means Chain Daughter or Daughter of the Chain, is another common expression. For the most part, these terms are considered complimentary. "
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:49:06 pm CST
that is what i wonder about too, Thadron
and there is another point in this small percentage of slaves, only 2 to 4 percent
That would mean by far the most males in Gor don´t have a slave at all, especially when considering that those who have slaves in the book usually have a few or even a lot of slaves
Lady Lita 20:51:32 pm CST
Perhaps that might account for why so many Men made use of Tavern slaves, Jarl Thornn. They could not afford to own one of Their Own?
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 20:52:34 pm CST
girl read somewhere that most Warriors could not afford the upkeep of a slave, to own one
Thadron 20:53:16 pm CST
thanks for that quote reference from Ubar Luther, Lita
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:53:17 pm CST
You have a point with that lady Lita
Dak 20:53:54 pm CST
what book is Ubar Luther From ?
Thadron 20:54:08 pm CST
I know all of My resources seem nearly depleted for the upkeep of just one slave *winks at her*
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:55:50 pm CST
chuckles women are like that Thadron
nasreen{TH}t 20:56:04 pm CST
blushes at Master's words and wink...
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 20:56:46 pm CST
Ubar Luther is someone who runs a website with a lot of wise comments and collected facts about Gor.
he also wrote a lot of summaries of the gorean books
Dak 20:57:15 pm CST
oh, ok
Lady Lita 20:59:00 pm CST Dak, Ubar Luther was a very knowledgeable man who studied the Gor books intensively and correlated the statistics in them, and wrote some 90-odd essays about the Gor of the books. His work can be found here: http://www.gor-now.net/delphius2002/id3.htm He has for many years been an accepted authority on Gor.
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 21:00:34 pm CST
at least the resources of one´s time are already used up when owning two slaves, as I experience with My two wonderful beasts
For Me it makes no sense to build up a big chain of slaves and not be able to deal with them accordingly
But in some books of Gor display slaves are mentioned, slaves which are only aquired to display them
other slaves are gathered for curiosities in looks or brands
and some Master´s in the books own a lot of slaves for the work to be done all this reduces the remaining pool of slaves for the average Gorean male
Dak 21:00:56 pm CST
I had never heard of Him before
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure 21:04:34 pm CST
this one has learned a lot on those pages..especially when she was new and uncollared, unable to be here much...she read a lot
Jarl Thorrn loves His roses 21:04:51 pm CST
Dak
Ubar Luther is a widely accepted and cherished authority on Gorean matters
Lady Lita 21:05:43 pm CST
I think he goes clear back to irC Gor and the days of Silk and Steel, and maybe even before. I know he was already well-known when html Gor came into being.
Dak 21:06:16 pm CST
ok
Lady Lita 21:06:37 pm CST
There is even a link to contact Him on His web site
OriginalSandman_Builder/Captain of GS 21:14:24 pm CST
smiling,, we are out of time,, thanks to all who attended and rose for scribing