Present:
Thadron
Ramses
Bretval
Kazar
Dak
Xertog
ShadowHawk
Lita
snowrose
karinda
aura
flicka
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:22:11 pm CST
ok, we have a small group here tonight but lets get started anyway ....
and topics, whisper them to Me
Lita, Physician 19:22:34 pm CST
O.K. I have company from out of state, so I cannot stay. However I did bring a topic. To Whom should I whisper it?
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:22:52 pm CST
whisper to Me, Lita
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:26:42 pm CST
ok, here we go: Quotes For This Week
"There is no single humanity, no single shirt, no correct pair of shoes, no uniform, even a gray one, that will fit all men. There are a thousand humanities possible. He who denies this sees only his own horizons. He who disagrees is the denier of difference, and the murderer of the better futures."
(Savages of Gor, p.31)
"Truth, you see, has reality on its side. Truth's problems do not derive primarily from the complexity of nature but from the simplicity of people. It is always more convenient to adopt a slogan than conduct an inquiry. Too, the often cold and flinty nature of truth may, too many people, understandably, constitute a poor substitute for the comforts of self-deception. Harmless lies, perhaps, improve the quality of human life. They do not, of course, improve its nobility or grandeur."
(Blood Brothers of Gor - Page 264)
"Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live , they can not tell you ; they do not have tongues, do not ask the wise man how to live for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you; if you would learn how to live, do not ask the question, its answer is not in the question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so."
(Marauders of Gor - Page 9)
"Honor is important to Goreans, in a way that those of Earth might find it hard to understand; for example, those of Earth find it natural that men should go to war over matters of gold and riches, but not honor; the Gorean, contrariwise, is more willing to submit matters of honor to the adjudication of steel than he is matters of riches and gold; there is a simple explanation for this; honor is more important to him."
(Beasts of Gor - Page 42)
"What of honor?" I asked.
"An inconvenience," he said, "an impediment on the path to power."
"You seem to me," I said uncertainly, "one who might once have had honor."
"I have outgrown it," he said.
"The most dangerous lies," I said, "are those which we tell ourselves."
(Vagabonds of Gor – Page 468)
Questions
1) What Gorean values have you considered as you develop your character?
2) Have you ever had to deal with a situation in rp that has compromised those values and how did you handle it?
3) Most people carry over their real values into their rp. When a situation arises, how do you separate the real from the rp?
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:27:18 pm CST
I will give you all time to digest ...
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:29:32 pm CST
Some Goreans do battle for money...pirates, others
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:32:08 pm CST
I am particularly curious of anybody has had to deal with #2?
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:34:06 pm CST
flicka is probably wrong here, and stands to be corrected, but her understanding is that as a slave she has no honour. Honour is reserved for Free Persons.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:34:53 pm CST
~it seems to apply to Free, as a slave obeys her Master's orders on how to handle things, so snuggles down to listen~
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:34:56 pm CST
true, but what values would a slave hold? and did you feel they were ever compromised in your RP, flicka?
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:35:36 pm CST
I'm not so sure on that point, snowrose
*not letting you off the hook*
Dak 19:36:21 pm CST
I remain true Myself in all situations !
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:37:28 pm CST
so far, she has not had a situation that was beyond that Master...and hopes she never does...
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:37:40 pm CST
so your RP values as identical to your RT values, Dak?
Dak 19:38:06 pm CST
pretty much, *smiles*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:39:56 pm CST
ohhhh, if that's what You mean...snowrose is more....adventurous than the real girl...but still no...she has not been asked to go further than she may someday in r/t
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:40:18 pm CST
~nodding and thinking deeply about Master Ramses words.~ Master, the Gorean answer is that she, like mistress snowrose obeys her Jarl, His honour, His integrity flow to His slave and she behaves accordingly. However, flicka is also a person behind the Role Play and that question is addressed to that person or so flicka thinks, and so will attempt to answer it.
The values that flicka holds to be tantamount are; integrity, loyalty, honesty, kindness, compassion. Never once has she been forced to compromise any of these values by a pledged Master of Gorean Shores.
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:40:58 pm CST
and you find no inherent conflicts or psychological dissonance, Dak?
Dak 19:41:26 pm CST
not really, *smiles*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:41:40 pm CST
and if it's an HNG, being outrageous, we are permitted to leave with a brief post
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:43:49 pm CST
And Master Ramses, what of You? May a girl ask Your thoughts?
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:45:51 pm CST
*laughs* it is not so easy for Me
I do have certain values I try to bring to My role play
honor, dignity, integrity, strength
I am not so self absorbed as to believe though
that I have maintained those values perfectly
in fact I know I have violated them at times ...
Dak 19:46:42 pm CST
well, I come from a different age and time, *smiles*
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:48:21 pm CST
for Me ... carrying over real values in to RP can be difficult because all of the traits I just listed are totally at odds with the whole concept of slavery .. in RT
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:48:50 pm CST
*laughs*
do not be so sure about that, Dak
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:49:29 pm CST
flicka would think it harder for a Master, all we, as slaves need do is obey.
Since time immemorial it has been the excuse ( I was only following orders) for the committing of the most heinous of crimes, for the lowest of actions, dishonourable actions, lying, cheating and so on.
I was ordered by my superiors to do it. My country required it of me. My religion. My boss.
Dak 19:51:02 pm CST
well, it may be a lot to do with where one comes from in life, rt has not always been as it is today, *smiles*
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:51:43 pm CST
Ramses grins
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:52:05 pm CST
yes flicka...in fact she thinks being a Free overall is harder...They have all the responsibility...even for their slaves' bad behavior
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:52:39 pm CST
Ramses like yiu honor integrity honesty ~`` same as in r/t ~try keep same values```` in r/p
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:53:39 pm CST
that is true Kazar
and while those values are ideals
I have not always lived up to them
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:55:09 pm CST
Ramses was taught at a young age always be true to yourself something always remembered ~~
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:56:06 pm CST
Indeed mistress snow, as flicka posted on the boards, in the words of Anais Nin. " I do not want to be the leader."
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:56:12 pm CST
I guess I would have to agree with Ramses....
rt does not involve having slaves ..... at the moment.... or even submissives..... but I don't feel like my role play is contratdicting any values I hold in rt.... maybe it is because I don't really feel like I am enslaving anybody in rp
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:56:24 pm CST
girl supposes does bring her r/t values ...she tries to be fair and kind..helpful...not just be here to satisfy her own needs and vanity
Bretval, Merchant 19:56:58 pm CST
Personally I prefer to live up to those ideals in RT...
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:57:05 pm CST
that is the psychological work around that works for Me as well, Thadron
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:58:24 pm CST
oh oh well said Master Thadron, flicka was trying to resolve the conflict that Master Ramses words had engendered in her. But You have neatly sliced the Gordian knot. In role play flicka chooses to be what she is, there is no forced enslavement.
Dak 19:58:44 pm CST
the thing about Gor is we train slaves to do things a certain way, so we always know what to expect from them , and we seldom have to make corrections or tell them exactly what to do, so I find the conversion rather easy !
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:01:29 pm CST
nodding, flicka I was just thinking of how the slave girls in GS freely offer themselves.....
I have yet to force collar anyone and believe that they submitted to me as Master as a change in them... know what I mean?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:02:45 pm CST
A girl does know exactly what You mean Master Thadron.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:03:41 pm CST
*pushing the envelop here*
but are we not being disingenuous here to think that way Thadron? in reality slavery was brutal and repugnant
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:05:44 pm CST
it was in the books too at times...those horrible tiers of women in tiny cages, no life at all...the stories revolved around a very few very privileged slaves...and that's the life we live here in GS...
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:05:53 pm CST
Master Dak, with respect, this girl's Jarl has not trained her in that way. He would fain have His bondsmaid so trained as to be an automaton.
He allows much latitude with flicka, and if, as is sometimes the case when an animal is not kept on a tight leash, that animal exceeds the bounds, then He will make a correction.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:05:55 pm CST
I agree with you, Ramses, that I have not made the leap to enforcing the brutal aspects of slavery in rp or in rt
Dak 20:07:33 pm CST
all Masters are different, flicka, *smiles*
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:07:34 pm CST
*nodding to Thadron*
playing a bit of the devil's advocate here
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:08:07 pm CST
I understand that well, flicka... different strokes I guess, Dak, I know that you appreciate when a slave behaves exactly as you have trained her...
but that wasn't always the way in the books
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:08:16 pm CST
girl's Master is very strict with her...
Bretval, Merchant 20:08:32 pm CST
not to the sheep, Ramses... and there were the free who were sheep as well
Dak 20:08:41 pm CST
I'm not much for the brutal aspects either, that is why I believe in training to the point of not going there !
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:09:59 pm CST
well said, Dak
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:10:01 pm CST
~blithe little smile~ And yes Master Dak, vivre la difference!!
mistress snowrose, yes in the books there is a very dark side, we in our role playing only encapture the light and the enjoyable.
Very few girls would even role play the darker aspects of Gor.
Dak 20:10:54 pm CST
it wasn't ?? interesting, I thought under the whip most girls tried very hard to be pleasing, *smiles*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:10:56 pm CST
no, it would be boy's club...
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:13:13 pm CST
very few Masters will really role play the darker aspects
which brings Me back to that conflict between RT and RP
whether we want to acknowledge it or not
Dak 20:14:17 pm CST
no conflict for Me, *smiles*
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:15:43 pm CST
so Dak, in RT you would have no issue
killing one you called a slave because you were in a bad mood and she pissed you off?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:16:09 pm CST
or worse, just Masters and FW
Dak 20:18:32 pm CST
I wouldn't kill one even in rp, *smiles*, never have never will, *smiles*, no conflict !
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:19:06 pm CST
Ramses... if Gor were my rt, my temper would be tested not to kill a slave that pissed me off.... I don't believe that I would get away with it in rt here on earth and somehow I refrain..
~chuckles~
Xertog 20:19:52 pm CST
Has anybody else killed a slave? I did a few years ago. It wasn't taken lightly and the Council voted on it.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:20:38 pm CST
there have been a few that I almost killed, Xertog, but no, I haven't killed one
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:20:53 pm CST
~listens to Master Xertog, greatly interested in His words~
Master may flicka ask the circumstances?
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:20:58 pm CST
Dak, you are being disingenuous with yourself
slavery, even on Gor could be and was brutal
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:21:48 pm CST
Xertog, I have not
and I can only imagine the emotional churn such and act would create for Me even in RP
Dak 20:21:56 pm CST
well, I guess that is why we call this roleplay, *smiles*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:23:24 pm CST
nods~ some on Gor could do it without even a thought, Ramses...
I agree again with you, I would not be able to do it even in RP without much self introspection
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:25:07 pm CST
and that is the inherent conflict between gorean values and RT values Thadron ...
and anyone who says differently, at least to Me, does not truly understand gor or the values they supposedly espouse
Xertog 20:26:03 pm CST
Thadron do you whip the new GS slaves? Does GS still do that?
I didn't care for it much when I first joined the Council.
Bretval, Merchant 20:26:50 pm CST
Hear, hear
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:26:52 pm CST
nods, we whip and brand the slaves... we whip slaves who have misbehaved....
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:27:26 pm CST
ok all
My time has expired for tonight
I wish you all well
karinda {GS} 20:28:08 pm CST
remembers girl's first whipping as a new GS slave. quivers at the thought of the pain....but lifts chin high as it was a proud moment for girl as well.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:28:13 pm CST
I think that we can call an end to Forum, Ramses... I won't be able to stay much longer
Winds Brother
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:29:09 pm CST
does anyone have any lasts?
Xertog 20:29:13 pm CST
Ramses is that why you don't raid the commerce on that canal that is between where we live? lol
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:29:40 pm CST
laughs~ I'm sure that's why, Xertog
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:31:08 pm CST
karinda, I agree that it is a defining moment for a slave... both the first whipping and the branding...
karinda {GS} 20:31:50 pm CST
nods to SlaveMaster....it was.....and still is Master. girl smiles
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:34:46 pm CST
I declare Forum over for tonight...
flicka, thanks for scribing
thanks everyone for a lively discussion
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:35:15 pm CST
~ a smile to the departed Master Ramses and a thank You for leading an interesting Forum~