Present:
Dak
Bretval
Kazar
David
Lita
snowrose
zoya
hulya
flicka
aatira
hayal
jira
Dak 19:36:46 pm CDT
ok, I will open the forum, same rules as always, keep chit chat and greetings to whispers, , have mercy on the scribe, *smiles*
Dak 19:37:18 pm CDT
first topic,
Merchants
Quotes For This Week
The Slavers, incidentally, are of the Merchant Caste, though, in virtue of their merchandise and practices, their robes are different. Yet, if one of them were to seek Caste Sanctuary, he would surely seek it from Slavers, and not from common Merchants. Many Slavers think of themselves as an independent caste. Gorean law, however, does not so regard them. The average Gorean thinks of them simply as Slavers, but, if questioned, would unhesitantly rank them with the Merchants.
Assassin of Gor, Page 208
The Merchants have, in the last few years, on certain trade routes, between Ar and Ko- ro-ba, and between Tor and Ar, established palisaded compounds, defensible stockades. These, where they exist, tend to be placed approximately a day's caravan march apart. Sometimes, of course, and indeed, most often, the caravan must camp in the open. Still, these hostels, where they are to be found, are welcome, both to common merchants and to slavers, and even to travelers. Various cities, through their own Merchant Castes, lease land for these stockades and, for their fees, keep their garrisons, usually men of their own cities, supplied. The stockades are governed under Merchant Law, legislated and revised, and upheld, at the Sardar Fairs. Captive of Gor, Page 219 "I am a merchant," said Mintar, "and it is in my code to see that I am paid." I set myself to sell my life dearly. Oddly enough, my only fear was what would happen to the girl. "Kazrak of Port Kar," said Mintar, "do you agree to surrender the balance of your hiring price to Tarl of Bristol if he takes your place in my service?" "Yes," responded Kazrak. "He has done me honor and is my sword brother." Mintar seemed satisfied. He looked at me. "Tarl of Bristol," he said, "do you take service with Mintar, of the Merchant Caste?" "If I do not?" I asked. "Then I shall order my men to kill you," sighed Mintar, "and we shall both suffer a loss." "Oh, Ubar of Merchants," I said, "I would not willingly see your profits jeopardized." Mintar relaxed on the cushions and seemed pleased. I realized, to my amusement, that he had been afraid that some particle of his investment might have been sacrificed. He would have had a man killed rather than risk the loss of a tenth of a tarn disk, so well he knew the codes of his caste. Tarnsman of Gor, Page 121 "The fairs incidentally are governed by Merchant Law and supported by booth rents and taxes levied on the items exchanged. The commercial facilities of these fairs, from money changing to general banking, are the finest I know of on Gor, save those in Ar's Street of Coins, and letters of credit are accepted and loans negotiated, though often at usurious rates, with what seems reckless indifference. Yet perhaps this is not so puzzling, for the Gorean cities will, within their own walls, enforce the Merchant Law when pertinent, even against their own citizens. If they did not, of course, the fairs would be closed to the citizens of that city."
Priest-Kings of Gor, Page 10
"I am an honest merchant," said Mintar, "and I would not cheat you, but you do well to handle your own affairs."
Tarnsman of Gor, Page 123
Questions
1)What is reasonable when it comes to Merchant power and roleplay?
2)Merchant Law is one of the most powerful set of Laws in all Gor. Why?
3)Merchants are more than just shopkeepers and they have great influence in cities. How do/should city governments deal with Merchants? 4)Do Merchants fight? Explain.
5)Have a favourite quote about the Scarlet Caste to share
Dak 19:38:14 pm CDT
if any others have topics , whsiper them to Me , *smiles*
Lita, Physician 19:46:49 pm CDT
So, Bretval, as You are of the Merchant Caste, could We have Your thoughts on the topic?
hulya{GS} 19:46:50 pm CDT
only question girl can even hazard a guess at is number two, and girl thinks it has to do with economic stability, trade and goods availability
jira{MT} 19:50:26 pm CDT
Thinks the answer to number two is that it is the only set of laws that travel from City to City
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:48:36 pm CDT
snow is a little confused by the last question...Should it be white and gold?
~zoya~{Thadron} 19:50:38 pm CDT
~*~steps in as slavebells announce the slave's presence, pretty hazels gaze over the room looking for Him as she walks to the slave furs and kneels, soft smiles lifted in greeting to all gathered this night, small hands placed atop parting thighs, red silks pushed higher, chin lifting...listening to the Free talk~*
Bretval, Merchant 19:50:40 pm CDT
It seems in some ways he FN does not have a lot or respect for Merchants either. One could argue that that none of the other High caste would exist without them
Dak 19:51:31 pm CDT
Most Slavers are usually trained as Warriors, I don't believe Merchants are **-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 19:51:42 pm CDT
That makes sense. The birches powers drive directly from the goods and services in which they provide the community. As a builder all use the bridge that I have built to cross the river. However 1 also have the choice to decide which merchants to have business with. And although it is understood that some merchants and their goods are indispensable. The power has to be limited someone as to what they provide
Lita, Physician 19:52:14 pm CDT
I see that snow, and I agree that that must be an error, and it should be white and yellow or gold. Ubar Luther mentions gold. but as I recall, slavers used yellow, and They were part of the merchant Caste.
Dak 19:53:27 pm CDT
In some Cities a Merchant may be so rich they virtually run the city
Lita, Physician 19:54:23 pm CDT
Also a main part of the power of Merchant Law is that it is recognized all over Gor, and enforced all over Gor by the Merchant Caste. All other Laws are enforced only within the areas of the City that passed them.
Bretval, Merchant 19:54:24 pm CDT
And if there were NO merchants?
**-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 19:55:12 pm CDT
Aye Dak You certainly speak the truth. Yet Merchants are not allowed on the ruling console. Unless in my absence that has changed?
Lita, Physician 19:55:17 pm CDT
That is also true, Dak
Dak 19:55:48 pm CDT
not that I am aware of, David
Bretval, Merchant 19:55:59 pm CDT
Slavers use yellow and blue to set themselves apart from Merchants
*-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 19:56:35 pm CDT
Merchants are quite necessary of that there is no doubt. However the question before us is what power should they wield?
Bretval, Merchant 19:57:27 pm CDT
It has changed in our Home by necessity
Dak 19:58:51 pm CDT
I believe it varies from city to city, some have their own ruling class, and others may have been take over by a wealthy Merchant
Bretval, Merchant 19:59:46 pm CDT
How much power should any caste have? It is a question of location, etc. Each must be different to adjust to the realitys of the Home.
Lita, Physician 19:59:59 pm CDT
I believe Ubar Luther says not, David, but also says that the Administrators, Councilmen or Ubars of the Cities often supported the erchant Law, in return for political support from the Merchants.
•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:00:12 pm CDT
Dak Very true Which brings us back to the original question. What powers did they wield or rather what power should they be granted?
Dak 20:00:46 pm CDT
whatever they can buy, *smiles*
Dak 20:01:10 pm CDT
money on Gor is power !
*-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:02:01 pm CDT
Dak That is true. But the sword is mightier than the coin I would argue
Bretval, Merchant 20:02:48 pm CDT
And a rich Merchant can buy an army is needed
Dak 20:03:00 pm CDT
aye, but swords can be bought, *smiles*
**-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:03:39 pm CDT
Dak It is the way of all worlds
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:03:43 pm CDT
A girl feels that for any society to succeed it must perforce encompass all strata and all "castes", each is important. However when writing a series of books, the author tends to minimise the less exciting, dashing, adventuresome professions, to concentrate more on the less mundane, ie; warriors and ~sweet smile~ kajirae.
Dak 20:04:31 pm CDT
aye, pretty much, doesn't matter if it democracy or dictators , money rules !
^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:06:30 pm CDT
So flicka you're saying that a male author was more concerned with fighting and beautiful slave girls then he was selling bread how strange. Smiles
Dak 20:06:51 pm CDT
that is true, flicka, *smiles*
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:07:22 pm CDT
~chuckling~ Yes it is strange indeed is it not Master David, not what one would expect at all.
Dak 20:08:04 pm CDT
that's kind like it costs less to go to the grocery store, than it does to a sports game , *smiles*
Bretval, Merchant 20:10:04 pm CDT
Very strange indeed... imagine ignoring the stories of all but warriors and slavers
hulya{GS} 20:10:56 pm CDT
It is most tragic girl thinks
Dak 20:11:25 pm CDT
would be no books, *smiles*
Bretval, Merchant 20:11:56 pm CDT
and ignore those who protect their groceries from thieves?
Dak 20:15:53 pm CDT
aye, the peasants protect their own, and Merchants wat hired warriors to protect their business
hayal{GS~o} 20:16:15 pm CDT
just a thought with the question of how much power should merhcants be given.. wouldn't that be controlled with how many restrictions are put upon them? do different city's have different laws or regulations which control who trades on city land? for example, do merhcants have to pay a fee for trading in a marketplace?
Dak 20:17:47 pm CDT
all they can take by the sword, *smiles* hayal
~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:18:14 pm CDT
Bretval But therein lies the question of power. Well it's true your goods should be protected but what is more Valuable? Your goods or the protection that guards them? And the roads in the bridge is that I build them you could not receive North ship your goods to other cities and towns. It is truly an argument without end
Bretval, Merchant 20:20:00 pm CDT
are we talking merchants or slavers, Dak, are better known for taking all by the sword
hayal{GS~o} 20:20:47 pm CDT
very true Master.. smile
Dak 20:20:57 pm CDT
sounds like the "you didn't build that" argument, *laughing*
**-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:21:24 pm CDT
Dak That's very funny
Bretval, Merchant 20:22:00 pm CDT
You are correct, David... a society that suvives is the one that integrates all the castes and guilds
Dak 20:22:40 pm CDT
I thought it would add some humor, *smiles*
**-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:22:46 pm CDT
It's all is symbiotic relationship. We are completely interdependent on each other for the goods or services which we provide. The merchant who sells the bread The warrior who protects the merchants shop The bridge that spans the river for the merchant ship is good to other towns. 1 would be hard pressed to live without the others
Bretval, Merchant 20:27:31 pm CDT
And yet the Council barred Merchants from their numbers... despite the values they provides...
Bretval, Merchant 20:29:11 pm CDT
better to get rid of the Initiates
Dak 20:29:26 pm CDT
no, it was Gor in general that set up the caste system
Dak 20:30:55 pm CDT
that is why you find slavers are usually Warriors so they are amongst the High Castes
**-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:31:14 pm CDT
Dak That is most true. And wow some leeway of course is acceptable. You must remain true to the core in my opinion
Bretval, Merchant 20:32:10 pm CDT
and run to the Merchants when in trouble
Dak 20:34:18 pm CDT
why would you say that, Bretval ?
Bretval, Merchant 20:36:18 pm CDT
isn't where the slavers run to when in trouble... the Merchants Code
Dak 20:37:09 pm CDT
I don't think so, *smiles* Slavers are usually pretty independent !
Bretval, Merchant 20:38:35 pm CDT
Usually... true... operative word is usually... not always
Dak 20:40:13 pm CDT
maybe you should write your own Gor books, Bretval, *smiles*
Bretval, Merchant 20:42:18 pm CDT
oh... I thought this was Forum not Book Club
Dak 20:42:31 pm CDT
a lot of things in Gor are open to conjecture, but seriously, I don't think the books were written with the intention of covering every aspect of life, *smiles*
*-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:43:07 pm CDT
Dak You're right
Dak 20:43:48 pm CDT
it is a forum, but why cover something never mentioned in the books and begin conjecturing different things about them, *smiles*
Dak 20:44:15 pm CDT
Thanks David
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:45:10 pm CDT
but its intent is open too ones interpretation
Bretval, Merchant 20:46:21 pm CDT
so it is another form of book club...
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:47:07 pm CDT
with respect Master Dak, this girl feels that the books are the framework on which we drape our cloth.
•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:47:39 pm CDT
It book club by the definition is a discussion on what the book says and what it means to others. However it is my believe in this form some things may be discussed but others are not open to interpretation.
Dak 20:48:50 pm CDT
aye, and that is all, *smiles* I've likened the books of Gor to the Bible, in that they both are a framework for life, *smiles*
**-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:50:05 pm CDT
Dak An interesting comparison As seen the birches had a bit of a problem with their power in the Bible also
**-•^{~DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:50:21 pm CDT
Forgive me that should say merchants
Bretval, Merchant 20:54:11 pm CDT
Another source I don't use when thinking
Dak 20:57:42 pm CDT
it is 9:00 do we need to beat this to death any further ?
DAVID~ MASTER BUILDER~}^•-** 20:58:49 pm CDT
If its up for vote I vote to close a meeting and go and have a tankard of mead
Dak 21:00:06 pm CDT
aye, I think it's time so I will close this week's Forum, thanks all that came and participated in the discussion .
thanks snowrose for scribing
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:01:34 pm CDT
Thank You for leading Master Dak...this one always enjoys when the discussion is about Free matters...
Dak 21:01:49 pm CDT
good to see you here, David, different than our usual fare, *smiles*
Dak 21:02:37 pm CDT
aye, we seem to have more of these like this lately, and it can be quite informative, *smiles*