Present:
Sandman
Dak
Bretval
Lita
snowrose
ruby
maddie -anne
hazine
natira
galah
jason
marieve
flicka
Dak 19:33:58 pm CDT
if any have a topic, whisper to Me, and I will open the forum
Dak 19:40:51 pm CDT ok, I have a topic, I will open the forum, same rules keep greetings and chitchat to whispers for the benefit of the scribe , hope scribes re ready !
Today's Topic
What are your thoughts?
Quotes For This Week
"Remove your clothing ," Would my master say to a high born free woman, suing to be considered by him in companionship. She would do so, and be assessed. If he was not pleased, he would send her weeping from his presence, clutching the rag of a slave, to don it and return to her dwelling. If he was not displeased he would gesture to the tiles before him where there waited a goblet of slave wine which she, kneeling before him, would eagerly drink. She would serve him that night as a slave. In the morning, she, nude would prepare and serve to him his breakfast, after which he would make fresh use of her; he would then send her from his presence, first pressing a coin, usually a copper tarsk or a silver tarsk, commensurate with the quality of her service. Such women went from his quarters proudly. Clad in full regalia of the free woman. They were not discontent." Slave Girl of Gor -155
… even girls who will be free companions, and never slaves, learn the preparation and serving of exotic dishes, the arts of walking, and standing and being beautiful, the care of a man's equipment, the love dances of their city, and so on. Nomads of Gor - Page 63
Would have pressed the small fellow on this but, at that moment, I saw Relius standing before Virginia. Her head was down and he, with his hand, lifted her head. Her eyes, deep and fine, met his; her lips were slightly parted. Gently he lowered his head and kissed her. She cried out, pressing her head to his shoulder. He removed from her throat the slave collar. No, she said. Please, no! She looked at him, suddenly afraid. No! she cried. Keep me! Keep me! Would you consent, ask Relius, to be the companion of a Warrior? Companion? she asked. Relius nodded his head, He held her very gently. She looked at him unable to comprehend his words. It is the hope of Relius, said he, that the free woman, Virginia, might care for a simple Warrior, one who much loves her, and accept him as her companion. Assassin of Gor, page 401
Drink with me the cup of the Free Companionship, said Relius, rather sternly. Yes, Master, said Virginia, yes! Relius, said he. I love you! she cried. I love you, Relius! Bring the wine of Free Companionship! decreed Marlenus. The wine was brought and Relius and Virginia, lost in one another’s eyes, arms interlocked, drank together. He carried her from the court of the Ubar, she lying against him, weeping with happiness. Assassin of Gor, page 402
Questions
1) based on the quotes can it be thought that a FW can love her companion?
Can a FW serve her companion as a slave and be paid for her sexual service to Him? What are your thoughts and why do you feel the way you do?
We know the youth had class in becomming a citizen, now based on the quote could it be said that FW were taught things to make them better companions? That they learned to serve, cook and pleasure their companion?
Now for the last 2 quotes. Can a Master love his slave and visa versa? If you are a Free and love your slave would you love her enough to free her to companion her? If a slave how would you react to this happening to you?
Last question. Was a FW a sexual woman once companioned?
Did she know from her lessons what to do?
Who do you think taught her those lessons?
His maddie~anne{T§} 19:47:26 pm CDT
~aqua eyes lift beneath the sweep of dark lashes in offered silent greetings to Master Sandman, then to marieve, before falling again and pondering Master Dak's topic~
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 19:47:51 pm CDT
Well . I have had a woman here. While we were always discreet and appropriate in our affection publically, privately she was as hot as any slave
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 19:49:04 pm CDT
she thinks a FW in the first situation would not be justified in ever looking down on a slavegirl
ruby~{Randolph} 19:49:19 pm CDT
inmho a Master can most definitely love His slave...in hopes He would love the girl so much He would never free her
Lita, Physician 19:50:12 pm CDT
There were quotes in other places that say that Free Women had to know everything a slave must know. This would be in part in case They ever became a slave, and in part so They could supervise the training of the slaves of Their househodl
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 19:50:39 pm CDT
It would be hard for this one not to love her Master...and yes, she thinks Masters sometimes love their slaves, perhaps even more than They want to do
His maddie~anne{T§} 19:53:46 pm CDT
~keeping eyes low as her voice softly sings out with long ago experience~
this slut found that what happens in private between FCs is just that, private and...well...there is a different kind of heat in that private, that still includes dominance...~sly smile~ but maybe the heat drives a FW to strip robes too as she finds herself unable to extoll the duties of a FC and FW...maybe not
~glancing with respect to the unwavering Mistress in attendance this night~
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:54:22 pm CDT
~low laughter~ well flicka reckons that everyone here would know by now just how much flicka and her Jarl love each other.
As to releasing flicka to enter into a Free Companionship with Him, because "he loved her enough" why? Why would He do such an abnormal thing?
Bretval, Merchant 19:54:52 pm CDT
Since you are using book club topics... his books on the subject were unreal projections of a time in American and British history... the official feelings were a fake..., like thinking that married couples in the 50's & 60 actually slept in twin beds
His maddie~anne{T§} 19:56:13 pm CDT
Whoa...release from her love...um... Master's iron to sport the robes of a FW???...~shakes her dark auburn covered head~...personally speaking, that would not be a path this slut would choose...the collar is much lighter because a slut doesn't have to hide her...slutness...as a FW must...
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 19:57:48 pm CDT
This one would not want to be a FC...she likes being a free spirited slavegirl, free to be her true self
ruby~{Randolph} 19:59:18 pm CDT
winks playfully to maddie ..indeed
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:01:56 pm CDT
~peeks up to marieve with a smile~
Bretval, Merchant 20:02:15 pm CDT
But of course the Robes of Concealment on one hand and nothing or near nothing of the slave girls in a harem come from the Middle East
Lita, Physician 20:02:23 pm CDT
WEll, Bretval. Book Club is devoted to studying each particular book in itself. Forum tends to cover on occasion particular topic, throughout all the books, sort of tying things together, as it were. And yes. Forum also covers some topics unrelated to the books, or Gor for that matter, at all.
jason{Lita} 20:04:42 pm CDT
FC of course can love each other but, being free must know when to show it. just as a Master can love his slave but a slave has no restrictions on showing the love.
the FW were most likely taught on various ways to make their companionship more pleasurable for both of their benefit
galah{GS} 20:08:05 pm CDT
gal knows that JN did not speak of children much, but wasn't there cases of a Master freeing his slave to be his FC so that he could bear free children?
jason{Lita} 20:08:56 pm CDT
as to who taught her it probably would have been the Free Male
Bretval, Merchant 20:11:41 pm CDT
If He wanted children all he had to do was withhold slave wine... and time would take its course....
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:12:27 pm CDT
But the child would be a slave if born to a slave...
galah{GS} 20:12:31 pm CDT
for one particular caste required children, two of them gal believes...and one would assume that the parents didn't always stay together to raise these children, for being a FC had to be renewed yearly?
Dak 20:13:06 pm CDT
*smiles*, I'm not sure in all My reading, I ever remember a case of it, I just know way back when, Kyoto did it real time, with His online slave, *smiles*
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:13:45 pm CDT
~listening to the thoughts being tossed about~
galah{GS} 20:14:08 pm CDT
that's right mistress, and Masters would NOT wish their children born into slavery...so if it was a love slave, he would free her to FC so he could have a free child
Lita, Physician 20:14:14 pm CDT
I suspect that the Free Women of a young woman's household would have taught Her Her domestic duties, and She would have been left a virgin until Companioned. I really can't see, say, One of Our Captain teaching His FC how to polish the silver, can You? *giggle
ruby~{Randolph} 20:14:39 pm CDT
aye galah Master Portus and Mistress Sophie renew every pahn..this one has served the wine of Companionship
galah{GS} 20:16:56 pm CDT
but then one would guess that they would renew that FC every year for the sake of the free child? much as is on urth at times, staying together for the sake of the kids
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:17:12 pm CDT
But would that gel Mistress Lita? If on Gor only 2-3% of the population, as You contend, were slaves, then surely most Free Women would have to do their own household chores.
Lita, Physician 20:18:11 pm CDT
Yes, it did, galah. And sometimes the Free Women sold off the children if they were girls, as most Free Men needed a male heir, which He could not have with a slave.
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:18:58 pm CDT
~wonders how a child could be born into slavery if a Man was watching...slut don't spill such secrets unless the wished to loose their heads and this slut can certainly not see Masters/Jarls drinking a paga and speaking of childbirth...she whispers~
this slut thinks that, barring those who were breeded to produce other sluts, there may be many FW that were born from love sluts...ultimately it would be Master/Jarl of the love slut and His pleasure to either elevate, sell or otherwise decide the fate of such a baby born from the womb of either a FW or slave...
Bretval, Merchant 20:19:19 pm CDT
~leaning back to take a nap~
ruby~{Randolph} 20:19:49 pm CDT
galah perhaps its the same as the books and on line..Free Companions desire to stay and love one another in a Free union...children or no children
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:20:24 pm CDT
~pausing as she ponders if those words made any sense while reaching back with a smack to the mis-spelling urt nipping at her ass~
Lita, Physician 20:21:56 pm CDT
flicka, it is not I who contend that 2-3% were slaves, it is what the books say. And remember, there were State-owned slaves, who were rented out to those Who could not afford to own, or because of travel or whatever, did n ot wish to own, their own slaves. And that is al;so why brothel;s and Tavern slaves were needed, for Those Who didn't have their own.
Lita, Physician 20:25:34 pm CDT
maddie, people can count and figure out pretty closely when a child was conceived. And a Free Woman would certainly not participate in concealing the genesis of a child. I have read nothing of surrogates being used to bear a child.
galah{GS} 20:26:28 pm CDT
so a FW would sell off her own daughter to become a slave?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:26:29 pm CDT
Mistress, ah so the state owned are not counted in the 2-3%?
Also all the slaves in brothels and Taverns, are not counted.
But still Mistress, where in the books does it say that there were only 2-3%? If you did an analysis of the books and counted the number of times a slave was mentioned by name, and compared it to the number of times a FW was mentioned by name, it would be more likely You would come up with a fact, that slaves vastly outnumbered FW.
Lita, Physician 20:27:41 pm CDT
flicka, in one of the early books it SPECIFICALLY states that only 2-3% were slaves.
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:28:29 pm CDT
~calls out with tiredness~
is it possible to agree that, although there is a guideline of numbers quoted in the books, there could be some error in Master Norman's thinking...and too, that perhaps a slave's worth is only measure by the owner of the flesh and, again, the book is a guideline??? lastly, can it at least be agreed that there is more fun and less beating of dead tharlions to be discussed during this rare chance for the members of this home being together?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:28:40 pm CDT
Mistress which book? Jarl Keeper has all of the books electronically, so flicka would like to see that.
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:30:17 pm CDT
Mistress...with respect...a FW is still a submissive creature to her FC, as maddie has read...and thus, maddie is of the belief that FW/FC could and would support any story her FC provided her with in respect to the birth of a child, less she end up in the collar of her FC
Bretval, Merchant 20:36:13 pm CDT
*LOL* I expected better from you flicka... you are correct as far as it goes... but the books only go into the lives of a miniscule number Free .... male or female.... a growing population with all the castes and and guilds and workers that that are mentioned as only throwaway characters would have to outnumber the slaves... unless of course the writer had not thought it through before throwing that number out to the ether
jason{Lita} 20:37:14 pm CDT
its within the first 4 books it is said the numbers of slaves is small but numbers grew after the war
Lita, Physician 20:37:32 pm CDT
yes, galah, Free Women could sell off a daughter into slaavery if She needed or wanted the money
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:38:23 pm CDT
~giggling~ shhh Master Bretval, since when does logic have to enter into discussions in Forum? But You are correct in that the was a vast society that was unnamed and was a mere undercurrent.
galah{GS} 20:39:46 pm CDT
gals memory is shocking, but recalling a case where a Master made his slave his FC, had the child and then enslaved the FC back to be a slave after the child was born free?
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:40:34 pm CDT
~does the math on slut fingers and toes and then gazes up to Master Bretval with a sincere respect to her question~
but can not an assumption be made that the numbers gleamed from the books are somewhat misleading as it is a story of One in a world of many?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:40:53 pm CDT
ah thank you jason, well there is some talk that after we finish this book in BC, we will be returning to book 1, so we will be able to find it.
Lita, Physician 20:42:21 pm CDT
maddie, most of the Free Companionships ere arranged by the familie sof the parties, for political, economic or inheritance purposes. And the Free Woman's family had as much say in the contracts aas the family of the Free Man. In fact, some Companions had not even met each other before the ceremony. And more than just the Free Man might be present at aa birth Representative sof both families, and a midwife or physician, would have been present, to ensure the validity of the birth, and that neither party could substitute an unknown child for a child that was stillborn or whatever.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:42:37 pm CDT
after Dancer?...there are several more .. Renegade is next
Bretval, Merchant 20:46:10 pm CDT
Exactly the point, maddie.... From the books I would have figured that the proper number of slaves at least 25% of the population... and work up from there... but as flicka said logic doesn't into it
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:46:17 pm CDT
yes, Mistress...
but...is it possible that some birth may not have gone exactly in the lines of the customes that Mistress has so carefully outlined? it is well known that humans, be they Man or woman, tend to follow the beat of T/their own drums...maybe it is possible that not every single person or, baby as this subject denotes, was born to the exact standards of the "norm" on Gor?
Lita, Physician 20:46:48 pm CDT
For example,as a member of the Green Caste, I had to wear two bracelets , removing one af ter the birth of each child, before I could practice My Caste. And you can bet the birth of My children was attended n ot only by members of both our families, and a physician, but also the requisite Officials of My Caste, to in sure that there was no "hanky panky" going on, and that the members of each our Families got one of the children to rais, so that My Companion and I could practice Our caste unrestricted.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:47:05 pm CDT
Aye that is so mistress, but Master Bretval indicated that He did not have the later books, and would not be able to summarise for us.
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:47:31 pm CDT
norm being the examples of the few outlined in the books, this slut means, Mistress...
Lita, Physician 20:49:37 pm CDT
And yes, it is possible that there were occasional births that did not go according to protocol. However, such would have been rare, and because they did NOT go according to protocol. were not made known publically.
Bretval, Merchant 20:49:41 pm CDT
I have up Book 25 flicka..
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:51:59 pm CDT
so we're good for a while yet with the saga
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:52:57 pm CDT
~nods~ exactly, Mistress...and when putting the numbers that Master Bretval supplied, it is entirely possible that there were MANY births that were not mentioned and unaccounted for...baring "royality" of course ~shuddering as she remembers history lessons in which urthern Kings and Queens were watched over as They tried to pro-create to ensure pure bloodlines~
Dak 20:52:58 pm CDT
I have upto 29
Bretval, Merchant 20:54:56 pm CDT
Assuming My e-books are readable,,, I lost the last half of Priest-King to the gremlins...
Dak 20:55:22 pm CDT
if all has had enough of this topic I will call the Forum to a close
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:57:01 pm CDT
Thank You Master Dak, for convening.
ruby~{Randolph} 20:58:04 pm CDT
thank You Master Dak for leading pretty flicka for scribing
Dak 20:59:16 pm CDT
thanks to all that came and participated thanks to the scribes
His maddie~anne{T§} 20:59:29 pm CDT
~sings out~
this slut thanks You, Master Dak, for leading ~smiles warmly~
and girl thanks her ink covered sister for scribing ~poking the girl~
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:00:56 pm CDT
Thank You for leading Master Dak...
thank you, flicka for scribing
Bretval, Merchant 21:00:57 pm CDT
Thanks for scribing, flicka
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:00:59 pm CDT
~chuckling~ that is why flicka's camisk is very very dark blue, nearly black, maddie-anne, Jarl Keeper said He was sick of the cost of washing powder that flicka was using to get the other ones clean again.
The ink doesnt show so much on this one.
galah{GS} 21:01:12 pm CDT
would it be assumed that FC would be of the same caste?
galah{GS} 21:01:58 pm CDT
and if that was the case, and a Master freed his slave to be his FC, that certainly would not make that FW of the same caste?
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:02:04 pm CDT
~whispers and pulls one of galah's mahogany curls~
um sister, forum is over.
galah{GS} 21:02:10 pm CDT
now gal is all kinds of confused
galah{GS} 21:02:39 pm CDT
gal knows, gal was just wondering, its perplexing to be sure
galah{GS} 21:03:13 pm CDT
gal thinks JN was not very clear about lots of things in gor
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:03:41 pm CDT
~pats galah's hand~ there there it is ok, you can let Master Rollo unconfuse you.
~flicka rears away chortling~
His maddie~anne{T§} 21:03:57 pm CDT
~pats the pretty gal's firm thigh as she murmurs~
it is okay, maybe the giggling galah needs some blackwine if a Master was so allowing a girl? ~smiles with a quick wink n lick of her cheek~
galah{GS} 21:05:12 pm CDT
but gal is impatient, she needs to know, maybe Master Xertog would know? greetings Master, when Mistress Laroona was freed and was your FC was she of any caste?
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:06:01 pm CDT
~pauses in her leaving to hear the Master's answer~
galah{GS} 21:06:27 pm CDT
**gives a dark frown to both flicka and maddie anne** ggggeeezzzzzzzz sisters, gal knows it clearly states that curiosity is unbecoming BUT....heheheheheee
Bretval, Merchant 21:07:36 pm CDT
I would think so, galah... I would assume that if a FW/FC was an accountant she would not lose that knowledge in becoming a slave... Bosk's girl in the first of the Port Kar stories for example
His maddie~anne{T§} 21:08:05 pm CDT
~peeking a giggle galah, she stiffles her own giggles as she tries to whisper~
curiosity killed the larl...
~unable to hold the jiggling mirth anymore~
Xertog 21:08:39 pm CDT
Greetings galah. Laroona became a scribe. How did it work in the books? I don't have any memory of that being addressed but I have not read the books that came after #25.. So perhaps it gets addressed in the later books
galah{GS} 21:09:31 pm CDT
**nudges maddie anne** stop it, its good to have knowledge hehehehehehee
His maddie~anne{T§} 21:10:36 pm CDT
~yelps at gigglin galah's nudge, she smiles as she whispers~
true, sister, very true...
galah{GS} 21:10:51 pm CDT
and you was not a scribe Master?
Xertog 21:12:23 pm CDT
No galah, Warrior.
galah{GS} 21:14:37 pm CDT
hhhmmmmmmmmm thanks for that Master, gal don't remember any of the books describing that scenario, like making a slave into a FW to have children, what kind of standing in society would the FW have?
galah{GS} 21:15:13 pm CDT
the books seem to have a lot of blanks to fill in heheheheheee
galah{GS} 21:17:09 pm CDT
Warriors was a caste, and a FW couldn't be in that caste, so one would assume that for FC's the caste was not an issue then?