Is there a movement to not allow restricted slaves in the Tavern?
Xertog 19:24:33 pm CDT
OK I have a few topics sent to me. I think some of them we will take a short time to discuss, but you never know..lol
first topic:
Is there a movement to not allow restricted slaves in the Tavern?
Cavy 19:25:25 pm CDT
restricted in which way?
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:25:52 pm CDT
Why? Why shouldn't restricted slaves be allowed in the Tavern?
Xertog 19:26:39 pm CDT
We have a scribe so please add your names in the 'My settings' and keep the extra talk to whispers.
Xertog 19:29:12 pm CDT
They question didn't say which way.. I assume sexually. I had no idea there was a movement either for this.
Perhaps there isn't. I was sent to me and I figured I'd toss it out in public to see if there was such a 'movement' on this issue.
shadow{Ulrich} 19:29:18 pm CDT
shadow's Master does not let this girl in the Tavern without Him present.. He feels, why offer candy that can't be tasted.. ?
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:30:20 pm CDT
I havent seen evidence of such ,, seems to me that owners can establish restrictions on their property as they wish,,
if someone doesnt want to be served by a restricted slave, then they dont have to ask
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:30:38 pm CDT
I don't understand the logic behind someone thinking that restricted slaves should not go to the tavern.
I can't figure out what the reason or logic would be to do that. I'm just trying to understand why it would be a big deal.
Cavy 19:30:46 pm CDT
My girls are restricted from furring not serving.....nassy does a great serve.....why waste her
Ulrich 19:31:16 pm CDT
I'm not aware of any movement as such. As shadow said, I don't allow her in the Tavern with out me, but that is my choice. I see no reason the Tavern should not allow her in if I were to change my mind. And I may allow her to go there from time to time depending on the circumstances. But I'm not aware of any movement as such.
Xertog 19:32:01 pm CDT
I don't care if a girl is restricted sexually but I don't care for cyber sex either so I'm not missing anything if they are.. lol All long as people don't take restrictions of their slaves to silly levels I thing they should be respected.
Cavy 19:32:11 pm CDT
plus what do they want food and a drink or just sex....
Zoran 19:32:18 pm CDT
hmmm logic and the movment in GS lol
desiree {Drusus} 19:33:30 pm CDT
des is restricted so therefore...she can serve...and she loves to serve....and she would be terribly disappointed if she could not enter the Tavern
Zoran 19:34:53 pm CDT
lol sounds like a rumor with no bite to me but oh well
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:35:12 pm CDT
*nodding in agreement with Cavy* Exactly.......a slave is to be please. Period. Not just on a sexual level.
Zoran 19:36:21 pm CDT
wait you mean we can use slaves for sex DAm I was not told this LMAo
Xertog 19:36:24 pm CDT
Well I thought it be a quick topic and so it seems to be. If there is a movement it would seem to be very small.. lol So lets move on.
Ulrich 19:37:53 pm CDT
The thing is, if they are not just after sex, then what's wrong with getting the drink, meal or whatever, in the Piazza?
Xertog 19:38:17 pm CDT
Sorry Zoran I thought I sent you a memo on that.. lol
emerald the bad one 19:38:25 pm CDT
no sex??...damn...what was em thinking and what is she doing here...*soft laugh*
Cavy 19:39:19 pm CDT
Ulrich it says Tavern over the door though not whorehouse...lol....maybe We should speak to gary
Is facestripping still allowed in GS and if so - how does is work now since FW are not allowed in the Tavern?
Xertog 19:39:09 pm CDT
The next thing is more of question then a topic: Is facestripping still allowed in GS and if so - how does is work now since FW are not allowed in the Tavern?
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:41:03 pm CDT
The practice of face-stripping is pure Gorean. It is the result of a FW not following protocol. It should NOT be thrown out.....just because all of a sudden so Mmany in Gor think it is not politically correct.
Cavy 19:42:21 pm CDT
agrees with Deirdre......I keep hearing lets keep this Gorean so why not keep it gorean
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:42:47 pm CDT
I came to Gor almost a decade ago. I know My place here as a FW. I have "walked the fine line" many times.....but I KNOW what My place is here. I have not ever been face-stripped.....or even an attempt made to face-strip Me. Simply because I KNOW what to do here. If I don't....well HELL.....then I deserve to be face-stripped.
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:42:49 pm CDT
face striping should be an option
emerald the bad one 19:43:27 pm CDT
if some FW were not faced with the possibility of face stripping...well...They would get away with murder...if possible...
Xertog 19:43:44 pm CDT
FW can be face stripped GS.. One was face stripped earlier this year. The Council does rule in regards to such matters and it needs to be recognized by a vote of the Council of Captains.
Zoran 19:44:25 pm CDT
well it never siad there not allowed they enter at there own risk from what I have seen WEG ask Phen oh thats right
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:44:32 pm CDT
*nodding to emerald*
Exactly. In fact, FW were banned from the Tavern because one FW felt that She was "bullet-proof". Well.....She wasn't.
Ulrich 19:44:52 pm CDT
If face-stripping were banned, the Free Women would be Free Men with breasts... and well we just can't have that.
It messes with the natural order of things. I hate "politically correct" on urth, I see no place for it on Gor
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:46:00 pm CDT
*nodding to Ulrich* Political correctness is a precept that does NOT belong in Gor. Period.
Zoran 19:46:01 pm CDT
if it was not allowed well This one MAster that be looking for a new3 home
desiree {Drusus} 19:46:41 pm CDT
~gulps~ before she speaks....there is something so powerful and enticing about a Man who is strong...it is very exciting to see a Man take His rightful place....
so...des sees it like this...very simple...
Gor is a Man's world...and that is what keeps her coming back...she loves the ~sigh~ Men who know who they are and what they are...
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:47:02 pm CDT
*nodding to Zoran*
Believe it or not, My Friend, I would be looking for a new home also.
emerald the bad one 19:47:15 pm CDT
ok...*hands on hips*...no way is em doing a FM with breasts...she's kinky but not that kinky...
*grinning she sits back down on her heels*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:48:16 pm CDT
*the only reason why it dosen't happen as much is because the FW don't venture into the tavern LOL*
Cavy 19:48:27 pm CDT
at the end of the day You reap what You sow if the FW is following protacol.....then there is no fear of facestripping....
its the FW that dont....My actions could result in My death and Im always aware of that fact
Zoran 19:48:47 pm CDT
I know there are some Fw that are very tricky and walk the line but if caught in the right spot
I know the Council will go with what right
Zoran 19:49:50 pm CDT
LOl hmm wonders were I put the detour sign to the plaza that point to the Tavern scratches my head
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:50:13 pm CDT
*looking at EF*
Captain....There is no reason that a FW couldn't be face-stripped in the Piazza.
It is not a kill/capture zone....true.....but that does NOT apply to dismissing protocol. If a FW acts up in the Piazza, She should certainly answer for it. It doesn't give Her carte blanche to do/say whatever She wishes to.
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:50:33 pm CDT
chuckling at Zoran,, new casste ,, sign painter ,, nahhhhh doesnt suit you
emerald the bad one 19:51:16 pm CDT
wow...*looking to Mistress Deirdre and smiling, glad Someone finally had the never to say it*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:51:42 pm CDT
*I thought the FW were safe in the piazza,is that just from being captured?*
Xertog 19:52:49 pm CDT
I am sorry I have an rti... Sandman or Ulrich can either of you moderate the forum? I'll try and return if I can.
Cavy 19:53:05 pm CDT
the piazza is a no kill or capture zone.....nothing else as far as Im aware and it is a Gorean room in GS...so facestripping should be allowed in there
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:53:57 pm CDT
No Problem Brother I can take over
Ulrich 19:54:05 pm CDT
I can take it Captain if Sandman can't
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:54:12 pm CDT
*looking at Captain EF* Safe means safe from killing....or capture. Safe doesn't mean that I can smart off and say whatever the hell that I want to say. I have to follow protocol, though I also understand that is up for interpretation.
Ulrich 19:54:26 pm CDT
~motioning to Sandman~ the floor is yours Captain
Xertog 19:54:36 pm CDT
Thanks Bro.. I'll send you the topics I was sent.
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of GS 19:54:38 pm CDT
offering my copper coins ...my understanding is the same as Cavy's
desiree {Drusus} 19:54:42 pm CDT
okay...des is totally blonde tonight....the piazza is a no kill or capture room...but facestripping is allowed there?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:55:13 pm CDT
*well then I will be in the piazza next time You are My Lady LOL*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:55:58 pm CDT
*well facestripping isn't really capturing?* Kristian 19:56:06 pm CDT
it is My understanding that the piazza is is a safe haven for FW..
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:56:12 pm CDT
*smiling at Captain EF* I would welcome that, Captain. I know My place. I have no fears as long as I remember who I am and who You are.
arianna {Xg~L} 19:56:13 pm CDT
~*slipping in quietly and kneeling beside her Master. she smiles to everyone in a silent greeting as to not disturb the forum*~
Cavy 19:56:47 pm CDT
I was slated by a Free for greeting a slave first in the piazza...even though She had left for a rti......so its gorean protocol...facestripping is gorean protocol........so that answers that..in My opinion
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 19:57:37 pm CDT
Capturing is kidnapping. Stealing a person from one place to another. That has nothing to do with face-stripping.
A Man can be called to task in the Piazza....if He is getting out of line. Why wouldn't that extend to a FW?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 19:57:58 pm CDT
*it is a safe zone for FW from capture and killing*
emerald the bad one 19:58:46 pm CDT
the Piazza should not be used as a place for A/anyone to get mouthy and throw their weight around....step beyond the line and the consequences should be paid...
Zoran 19:58:49 pm CDT
I know one thing and most here know me I do not take a rude Fw
and I do not care if it is the Piazza I drag her ass to the Tavern if I have to sits back
Cavy 19:59:41 pm CDT
well you aint gotta kolar Them just reduce Them to slave status..so that rules out capture...then also You dont have to kill Them
Ulrich 20:00:24 pm CDT
I agree with Deirdre, though I'll say I never gave it any previous serious thought.
The face stripping merely changes her status from FW to slave, I just can't put my collar on her there.
Of course, as Xertog said, it requires a Council ruling, and I'm not sure which way they would go in such a case
This is p
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 20:01:00 pm CDT
*nodding to Cavy*
A Woman can be face-stripped for what She has said....but it would be up to the Council to uphold whether the offense warranted the face-stripping.
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:01:54 pm CDT
*but anyway we all agree that the facestripping should stay in place S*
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:02:04 pm CDT
nodding to Ulrich and Deirdre I would agree with that the Council would decide ,, tho woe be unto the FW that crossed the line
Cavy 20:02:12 pm CDT
Aye EF it should
Zoran 20:02:32 pm CDT
I have been involed in such thing and I have to admit I was please with there decion
arianna {Xg~L} 20:02:54 pm CDT
*listening to the topic and placing her tasks worth on the table*
If a FW insults a Man enough in the Piazza that He would wish Her face stripped, then a email outlining the insult (or whatever it was) should be sent to the Council. Just because a place is 'safe' doesn't mean give carte blanche to insult. I think a copy of what was said should be given to the Council so that they can decide what to do.
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 20:03:20 pm CDT
That is why I think that whenever a FW gets "mouthy" that it should be reported to the Council. If a FW is mouthy.....over and over.....to different sources(Men) at different times, this would establish a pattern that the Council would need to address. So many times might end with a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation.
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:04:52 pm CDT
smiling sounds like most are in agreement
emerald the bad one 20:05:40 pm CDT
damn...em is going to have to come around a lil more often...just to watch the fireworks...*chuckling softly*
Ulrich 20:05:48 pm CDT
aye Sandman, wow that's 2 for 2. Must be some kind of forum record. All in agreement.
Keep them in line.
Zoran 20:06:11 pm CDT
lol as I know em like to make fireworks
Revisiting Some Basic GS Rules
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of GS 20:06:37 pm CDT
time for a new topic.. one has asked for some discussion on basics here is the first for comment: not posting a greeting till a person enters..
Cavy 20:06:40 pm CDT
wonders why LadySissy 20:06:45 pm CDT
laughing
emerald there are not enough FW here to have to worry about fireworks
emerald the bad one 20:07:16 pm CDT
~grins at Master Zoran~...em loves the colors....
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:08:05 pm CDT
*well you never know if that person is staying or going so why greet if they don't stay*
arianna {Xg~L} 20:08:41 pm CDT
in rt, if someone is at my door i dont greet them until i've answered the door.....dont see why it should be different here. Just because a person can be 'seen' doesn't mean that they have knocked at the door.....
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:08:44 pm CDT
*if they post an entrance,then greet them but if they don't then why greet*
Cavy 20:09:11 pm CDT
well thats true also slaves are required permission to greet so its best to wait for the permission to be granted first
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 20:09:21 pm CDT
I agree emerald Forest
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 20:09:33 pm CDT
*looking at Lady Sissy*
I am here. I am a FW. I find this very important. The number of FW here doesn't matter. It is the general principal of it all.
Zoran 20:09:46 pm CDT
yeah yeah so I greet sometime to fast I am a Master who to stop me lol
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:10:02 pm CDT
*only if they are with another Free though Cavy,otherwise they can greet anytime* LadySissy 20:10:26 pm CDT
*smh* not what I meant Deirdre
Cavy 20:10:30 pm CDT
thats also true well pointed out EF
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:10:47 pm CDT
*We are talking about the slaves Zoran not the Free,they can do what they want within reason S
arianna {Xg~L} 20:11:04 pm CDT
*smiles at Master Zoran* C'mon Master, face it, You are just happy to cast Your eyes on the slave flesh and cant wait for them to enter so You can have Your wicked way with them *winks at Him playfully*
emerald the bad one 20:11:21 pm CDT
*nods in agreement once more with Mistress Deirdre*...perhaps if A/all acted within the parameters of the role they play....things in GS could be different....from what em has seen....too many are making Their own rules on behavior
Zoran 20:12:41 pm CDT
Wicked evil grin no just kinky lol
I see EF dam I need to quit Whispering
most slave know this and follow it
Zoran 20:13:58 pm CDT
see now this is a good time and all geting along
this is how Forum needs to be
Cavy 20:14:40 pm CDT
Aye Zoran its a pleasure to be in GS today
Ulrich 20:15:51 pm CDT
It's true the Free can do what they want, but just because we "can" doesn't mean we should.
Greeting before someone posts an entrance goes against the very logic the slaves are taught, and I can see could be detrimental to their training by setting a bad example of simple general protocol.
Cavy 20:16:37 pm CDT
aye Ulrich I agree
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:16:51 pm CDT
*and the way the site is now,a persons name can stay in a room for ages after they have left*
Zoran 20:17:11 pm CDT
Ulrich I agree but
I always say A free man can do as they please
But they must be ready to deal with the reactions to there actions
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 20:17:26 pm CDT
anothr issue I we were asked to discuss is: proper greeting of slaves..
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 20:17:35 pm CDT
I know protocol. I am polite....mostly. *grinning* But I don't wish to be "instructed" on how to greet other Free.....I don't. I get rather snitty about it. If I wish to ignore Someone, then that is My perrogative.
arianna {Xg~L} 20:17:55 pm CDT
that is odd Master emerald Forest...is that only if a person doesn't logout correctly?
Ulrich 20:17:56 pm CDT
Well EF, no one said anything about greeting ghosts lol
Zoran 20:18:57 pm CDT
greetings sluts lol
Cavy 20:19:06 pm CDT
arianna no it just works out that way.....the whisper list changes but the names stay in the room
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:19:23 pm CDT
*nope,it happens all the time now arianna S*
Cavy 20:19:06 pm CDT
arianna no it just works out that way.....the whisper list changes but the names stay in the room
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:19:23 pm CDT
*nope,it happens all the time now arianna S*
arianna {Xg~L} 20:21:22 pm CDT
*smiles at Mistress Deirdre* as a slave sometimes i wish i could ignore people...it makes me a hipocrite (sp) to be nice to someone i cant stand, but what's a slave to do...gotta be nice or pay the price and i would much prefer to be a living slave who has to greet someone they dont like than a dead slave who cant greet anyone. As a FW is your perogative to do as You feel fit, as long as You dont insult anyone or ruffle any feathers.....being a FW is not easy you always have to watch what you say and do.
arianna {Xg~L} 20:22:18 pm CDT
hmm...ari didn't know that, thanks Master Cavy and Master emerald Forest. ari isn't around much these days due to rt so hasn't gotten familiar with the new set~up
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:23:06 pm CDT
*we are talking about the slaves Deirdre,if a Free wishes to not greet someone then that is up to them S*
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 20:24:07 pm CDT
*smiling at EF*
I am very relieved, Captain.......thank You.
Cavy 20:24:55 pm CDT
*chuckles as I hear Deirdres words*
Ulrich 20:26:03 pm CDT
It would be good for you to know the slave rules Deirdre... just in case you slip up one day. *L*
Zoran 20:27:18 pm CDT
lol at Ulrich as I know Diedre would pick the knife over slavery lol
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 20:29:20 pm CDT
*laughing as Zoran takes the words from My mouth*
True, My Friend.......
*smiling at Ulrich*
I never forget how precarious My situation is here. I really don't. I have been a FW for a long time,but hopefully I have been educated by the experiences of the foolish FW that have NOT survived as such.
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 20:29:34 pm CDT
chuckling at Ulrich's words then Zoran's,, tis more likely the man to try to force slavery on MY Deirdre would be picking out a knife
Ulrich 20:31:34 pm CDT
Aye Deirdre, but on a serious note, though these are truly slave issues, the Free need to know them as well, or how else do we properly train our slaves to live and behave within the rules of GS?
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 20:32:02 pm CDT
*laughing delightedly at the words of the Builder....thankful that He knows Me so very well*
Cavy 20:32:04 pm CDT
oh but not in the piazza Sandman....We can only face strip...*chuckling*
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 20:33:27 pm CDT
I agree Ulrich,, all Free should know what is proepr for slaves,, else how can we hold them accountable for proper behavior
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 20:34:35 pm CDT
with time going fast here is another that is offered for discussion:
3rd person speech for slaves
arianna {Xg~L} 20:35:34 pm CDT
speaking as a slave its not hard to speak in 3rd person....takes a bit of getting used to when you are new but that's the way GS has always been, why change what works...
jessenia{Rm}~t 20:36:22 pm CDT
jesse thought that was just covered a few weeks ago?? tho not sure what the final word on it was..
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 20:37:00 pm CDT
To be honest,Beloved...*looking at the Big Builder*....I don't care if it is 1st, 2nd, or 3rd person.......as ong as they are respectful. Period. I don't quibble over silliness. If they are respectful and kind, I'm okay with it.
Cavy 20:37:16 pm CDT
Aye it was and Mine are required to speak in third person....
desiree {Drusus} 20:37:49 pm CDT
if a girl's memory serves her correctly...was 3rd person speech used in the books as punishment?
aurora{Ulrich}-t 20:38:33 pm CDT
hmmm a girl thought that topic was beaten to death Master Sandman
~soft lil laugh~
3rd speech for slaves is still a rule of GS until changed by the Council
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 20:39:42 pm CDT
smiles to aurora,, someone asked that it be brought up ,, just allowing the topics as they are offered
aurora{Ulrich}-t 20:39:57 pm CDT
from what aurora read in the books 3rd person speech reminded slaves they were slaves
Ulrich 20:40:07 pm CDT
The thing is, the slave handbook currently states that third person speech is required of all slaves within the walls of GS, with the exception of forum and kennels in certain circumstances.
It's my opinion that when one pledges to GS, they pledge to follow and uphold the rules.
If some don't agree with them, they should take it to Council, but follow them as they are stated until a ruling is made.
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:40:20 pm CDT
*it was jesse and it was decided that it would stay the same unless a private slave is told different*
aurora{Ulrich}-t 20:40:24 pm CDT
aye of course Master Sandman ~smiles~
Cavy 20:41:18 pm CDT
aye
Ulrich I said the same thing when I wasnt a pledged Free now that I am I still stand by it
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 20:41:43 pm CDT
smiling .. as the speed round of forum begins in earnest .. another topic: correct steps to serves.. ?
Ulrich 20:41:59 pm CDT
The problem with that EF is that the rules don't hold exceptions for personal slaves, at least the way they are currently stated.
~zoya~{K}~t 20:42:59 pm CDT
zoya was taught years ago here in GS there were five steps to a serve.
shadow{Ulrich} 20:43:08 pm CDT
but Master Forest, if the private slave is a pledge Free's slave should the Master not follow the rules of His home, in this case.. GS?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:43:50 pm CDT
*well the last time it was spoken about it was up to the council to review that rule and change it to GS slaves only,as a private slave does what their owners tell them too and the council would honour that ruling for the private slaves*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:45:29 pm CDT
*most times,yes shadow,but what happens if a Master enjoys hearing His slave speak in first person,it is His right to hear His slave speak it as long as it is in her restrictions page so to speak so people will know about it*
Ulrich 20:46:03 pm CDT
Aye, but to my knowledge no such ruling has been made yet was my point. Once they make that decision, I'll get off the third person speech tarn.*S*
aurora{Ulrich}-t 20:47:05 pm CDT
sighs softly, speaks softly if pledged Masters determine how their slaves serve, act, speak then what is left of the consistency of GS rules, the slave manual
the speech is changed, then whats next?
it is so difficult to train any new girls when things are so inconsistent
Xertog 20:47:19 pm CDT
I don't recall that EF. Is that posted some place?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:47:38 pm CDT
*no worries then Ulrich S*
~zoya~{K}~t 20:47:55 pm CDT
~nods completely agreeing with aurora~
shadow{Ulrich} 20:48:14 pm CDT
shadow thinks a Master can do whatever He wishes with His own slave Master Forest, but does He not pledge to follow the rules of GS? as she sees You have said, it has been brought to the Coucil but there is no ruling as of yet, correct? least not one posted..
Ulrich 20:48:25 pm CDT
Xertog that was discussed as a possible option in forum a few hands back, but no there was never anything posted or ruled upon that I am aware of.
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:48:42 pm CDT
*thats why it needs to be updated aurora and say either both GS and private slaves or just GS slaves*
aurora{Ulrich}-t 20:50:16 pm CDT
aye Master emerald Forest aurora's point was how long has that manual been a part of GS how many slaves, Free trained under that manual
changing the rules of speech opens the doors to many more changes when pledged Masters determine what their slaves can or can not do
Cavy 20:50:33 pm CDT
well a GS slave is requiered to speak 3rd person a pledged Frees slave should also be required to speak 3rd person in My opinion
~zoya~{K}~t 20:51:05 pm CDT
may zoya ask, who is mostly requesting the change of third person speech? the slave or the Master...or the slave thru her Master?
it is zoya's feeling that more and more over the years, rules are being altered to suit the slave and things are easier and easier...what happened to the harshness of being a slave?
desiree {Drusus} 20:52:21 pm CDT
~agreeing with zoya~ des can remember a time that she would enter the Tavern and shake with fear of doing one little thing wrong... thinking that perhaps over the years...this harshness has been lost?
Xertog 20:52:55 pm CDT
I agree with that
Cavy. Stuff like that needs to remain standardized and consistent other wise slave training becomes difficult.
jessenia{Rm}~t 20:52:58 pm CDT
agrees with that.... alot has been lost since jesse first came to GS
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:53:13 pm CDT
*then the ruling should say all slaves then as it can be taken as both ways the way it is now if you read it*
Cavy 20:54:28 pm CDT
thats right ALL slaves should speak third person.....then there is consistancy and training easier and punishment also clearer
Ulrich 20:54:38 pm CDT
Very good observations zoya and desiree.
Some seem to think the harshness scares some away, and things are starting to drift closer and closer to that dreaded phrase "politically correct".
I'm sure to some, if not most, the harshness and the danger are what draw them to Gor. They must stay on their toes and mind their p's and q's and their i's and my's
sen 20:54:51 pm CDT
sen realizes she just came in, but speaking in third person isn't hard at all. It takes time to get used to yes and in the books it was used as punishment.....sometimes. Sometimes not, other times it was simply used to remain the slave of her place, that she was nothing, that she didn't even own her name, that she owned nothing. That she wasn't truly a "person" but a beast. Since sen has been in GS, it's always been third person, if things keep changing and changing and changing. Pretty soon no one is going to know what to do and what not to do. Or grow tired of the wishy washy aspect of things and find another place to go.
Xertog 20:55:22 pm CDT
If the wording is ambiguous I know a scribe that I can have fix it. 'chuckles'
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 20:55:31 pm CDT
*the harshness can only come from the Free,maybe some Free are getting soft LOL*
Ulrich 20:56:02 pm CDT
Use of Slave Language
Slaves never speak of themselves in "first-person" except for the slave kennels and the forum room, white silk slaves ALWAYS speak in third person though. An exception to this is when the ‘i’ is used in the slave litany or when personal slaves use ‘my Master’. A slave, when describing her actions, will always say something such as: "this girl kneels" or "vella kneels". Slaves will always speak in third-person while in the Tavern, Bath House, Training Yard and the Piazza. The first offence should carry a warning. After that, punishment will depend upon whichever Free Person wishes to enforce this Rule.
Ulrich 20:56:40 pm CDT
I don't see any ambiguity there. That's straight from the slave manual.
Cavy 20:58:14 pm CDT
then thats one is sorted We point out to all new slaves to read it so why change it after they have read it.......they would have no idea what the hell was going on
Xertog 20:59:34 pm CDT
That seems pretty straight forward to me. Is there more on the topic elsewhere perhaps on the web pages?
~zoya~{K}~t 20:59:46 pm CDT
that is very true, Master
Ulrich, but too, if we look at the history here in GS, years ago when things were much more strict and harsh, we had a lot more people in GS every day, 8-12 girls in class every hand. slaves were in fear of doing something wrong but we still came.
zoya personal opinion is that it's become so easy to her, there is no challange anymore. she has at times tried to do things wrong and still nothing is ever said to her, she is never punished for her mistakes. Gor in GS is not harsh anymore.
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 21:00:57 pm CDT
Slaves who have "special" instructions from their Owner are advised to inform a Captain or Advisor of of those rules so that he may assist you in keeping obedient to your Owner, and to ensure that other visitors do not try to make you do something which you are forbidden
aurora{Ulrich}-t 21:01:51 pm CDT
aurora just hopes topics such as third person speech is not pushed through the Council by a few, a decision made when quite frankly it is evident many do not support or agree with changing it...
its a contentious issue...
~zoya~{K}~t 21:02:03 pm CDT
Master Forest, You have hit the nail on the head. Without being disrespectful, zoya is very disappointed in the Free as a whole.
desiree {Drusus} 21:02:55 pm CDT
~once again...agreeing with zoya~ strength and consistently keeps a girl on her toes
sen 21:04:47 pm CDT
The strength and the harshness in Gor is what brought sen to gor. It's that what made her want to strive to please and to serve better and better and better. There is no point to strive to do your best when even if you do your worst, nothing is done. And please, sen says that in the most respectful way there is.
Cavy 21:05:56 pm CDT
I havnt seen a slave do wrong here yet...do you want to be punished for nothing?....
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:06:50 pm CDT
Quite honestly, I am the one pushing for the third person speech to be changed to a more Gorean setting and also pushing for other Gorean changes. The GS set up is living in the past, it is a glorified BDSM site with bad attitudes. But hey, the population are happy with everything, so I doubt anything will change.
~zoya~{K}~t 21:07:26 pm CDT
exactly, sen...we have no reason to tried hard each and every time we step into GS, because nothing will be done if we don't....so why try.
sen 21:09:18 pm CDT
Master, sen does agree to that. That it is a glorified BDSM site, with bad attitudes but it isn't because of third speech. No one like changes here, it has been proven time and time and time again that no one here likes changes. Everyone at one point in time has tried, people are stuck in what they want and what they need. It's not only because of third person speech, it's simply that..people need to pick something and stay for it. There has been slaves here for years that has been taught a certain way. Even if that rule is changed, sen can probably say most of the slaves will remain speaking third person.
jessenia{Rm}~t 21:09:45 pm CDT
if jesse can say.. she doesn't think we are exactly referring to "harshness" as in punishment... there's different levels to it...
for instance.. most of the time.. a girl offers to serve.. and does that serve.. and that's it... jesse remembers when she came.. Masters would have girls perform positions.. or would actually tell them to clean the tables.. or sweep.. or do something..
it's actually hard to explain.. but.. we do at times.. yearn to be pushed...
Cavy 21:10:47 pm CDT
third person is not required in BDSM...so unsure why this is a glorified BDSM site
Ulrich 21:10:48 pm CDT
Well JT, you know my opinion on the third person speech. Ok so it's an onlineism, but we are online. We are not talking face to face, and it is one method to make sure a slave knows her place 100% of the time
desiree {Drusus} 21:11:00 pm CDT
des thinks that if moving away from a glorified BDSM means that there would be a more strict GS...it can not be all that bad...
a girl would love to enter the Tavern and feel that burning within her that makes her strive to be so more than she was before she entered...
~zoya~{K}~t 21:11:10 pm CDT
when we only have this realm to live out our gorean lives, Jarl, the impact of third person speech may be a way of inforcing it. It may not be ideal but it may also be needed. It worked in the past and many many girls have stated how it inforces our slavery on us, zoya included.
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 21:11:22 pm CDT
smiling to jess's words ,, I personally have asked a GS owned slave to clean tables when there were none needing service ,, and will continue to do so
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:11:23 pm CDT
I never said third person speech was the be all and end all, sen. I've had Mine talking 1st person for as long as I can remember, noone has called Me up about it. There are a great number of issues here.
sen 21:11:48 pm CDT
zoya, sen hardly even tries with her serves anymore the rare times she does serve. she can get away with a not so good one and people are happy with that, so she keeps it that way. Why try?
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:12:24 pm CDT
Yes zoya, it worked, in the PAST....
I have said My piece, I respect everyones opinion and will say no more on it.
jessenia{Rm}~t 21:13:11 pm CDT
but personal owned slaves can clean too Master.. ~laughs~
at least jesse knows her Master isn't against it...
sen 21:13:33 pm CDT
Exactly Master, it's just....sen doesn't think things are going to happen to make things better, because many don't want change. First person is fine, third person is fine. Does it really matter is what it comes down to? If a slave is pleasing a Free, is that not what the slave suppose to do? To please and be pleasing? Abosolute obedience and beauty?
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 21:13:42 pm CDT
grinning , I will keep that in mind jessenia
Cavy 21:14:03 pm CDT
ok point taken....but dont come moaning to Me when you are told to clean tables or do other chores
jessenia{Rm}~t 21:15:26 pm CDT
Master Cavy... jesse will never complain... 'L'.. most know she's always been an advocate of slave chores...
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:15:32 pm CDT
Points being missed, as I said, I've said My piece.
sen 21:15:49 pm CDT
Master Cavy, may sen ask You something though? Why would a slave be complaining when they are told to do something? Would that not be backtalking against the Free?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 21:16:41 pm CDT
*I think it all depends on who is in the room when a slave comes in as each Free is different and it all depends on Their RT time*
Ulrich 21:17:26 pm CDT
~turning to sen~ There's a girl that knows her place. *s*
Cavy 21:17:37 pm CDT
also whats stopping you doing it anyway......if you want to be scared of Us....then you should clean them without being told to for fear of being punished........in future Ill go down that route
~zoya~{K}~t 21:17:49 pm CDT
yes, agreed, Jarl...it's so MANY things, no one fix, but changes to what worked just doesn't make much sense to zoya. ~shrugs~ all a girl yearns for is guidence thru discipline from the Free...and a reason to *try*.
Cavy 21:18:19 pm CDT
ahhh but sen theres always forum
sen 21:19:15 pm CDT
Master Cavy, that is part of the thing. sen will be honest, she truly doesn't fear many Free here. When she was collared to a patron here, why would she do something she knew there would be no reprecussion?
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:20:16 pm CDT
Do you think it is all about the slaves?
What purpose is there for Me in coming here? Actually, I have wondered that for some time. It would be great if there was something or someone to work on. The Men need shit to do as well, it is not just about the slaves needing to be Mastered, sometimes it is about the Men who have no reason to Master.
Cavy 21:20:21 pm CDT
but sen your point has been listened too and as a result...Ill go down that route Xertog 21:20:22 pm CDT
Before the forum ends I'd like to plug the Tuesday night book discussion.
We started on Outlaw of Gor last week. This week we'll cover up to page 81. The forum is every Tuesday at 7:30PM GS Time.. (US Central time.)
sen 21:20:43 pm CDT
Yes, there is always forum. But in the end, if a Free tells a slave do do chores, as long as it doesn't involve rt and doesn't interfere with their rt. Where is the right to moan and complain about it? Heck, throw in some positions or something. Hmm...maybe sen should be quiet now, she said what has been on her mind.
Ulrich 21:20:51 pm CDT
People often confuse discipline with punishment.
Discipline is providing structure, and keeping a slave within that
structure. If adjustments need to be made to that structure, they are
made, but the key is communication between Master and slave, or Council and
the people of a home. slaves must know that "fear in their belly" ..to know without a doubt
that when they enter the Tavern that their very life depends on how well
they please....
Ulrich 21:22:29 pm CDT
The topic of discussion was about the slaves for this part of tonights
forum, so that has been my focus for the moment.
~zoya~{K}~t 21:22:36 pm CDT
oh no, it's not all about slaves at all, Jarl.
aurora{Ulrich}-t 21:23:11 pm CDT
~sighs confused and not sure if she any longer desires to be a trainer here
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:23:29 pm CDT
Sorry Ulrich, was not referring to your posts, was responding to zoya.
Cavy 21:23:31 pm CDT
Ulrich I agree with that but its not good enough....Mine know what is
required and what will happen if they fall short....they dont for fear
of falling short........so whos in the wrong
desiree {Drusus} 21:25:54 pm CDT
des thinks that it takes everyone to make change...and it takes
recognizing a problem is paramount before a problem can be resolved....
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 21:28:18 pm CDT
well we are a bit long on time, but I didnt want to stifle some good
discussion .. Thanks to all who have come here to do their part
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 21:29:04 pm CDT
as Xertog said Tuesday night is book night ,, discussing Outlaw of Gor .. I look forward to seeing everyone at forum next week
Ulrich 21:29:24 pm CDT
Oh Cavy, I didn't say there should be no punishment. Nay nothing like that. But the structure has to be there, if they stray outside that structure, the the punishment will come for sure.
~glancing to Mine~ and no doubt they know that.
Karima 21:30:59 pm CDT
Tis only the 2nd Forum I have attended, and although I arrived late to this Forum, I get the feeling that not very much is accomplished in the way of issues being sorted. It seems as though issues are raised and spoken of, yet nothing is accomplished. Is My assumption incorrect?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 21:33:28 pm CDT
*it takes time sometimes for the council to sort through the issues Karima, but it does get done in the end S*
Cavy 21:34:38 pm CDT
Karima no actually this forum has been good tonight
Deirdre ~Physician & Companion to Sandman 21:34:57 pm CDT
*smiling at Karima*
I agree with You, Lady....I think it was a very productive forum.
~zoya~{K}~t 21:35:10 pm CDT
a slave would like to just put it on record, it's been 3 hands since she has heard from her Owner.
Ulrich 21:35:26 pm CDT
Karima, forum can serve a couple of purposes.
1) Issues can be raised that need to go to Council for a vote.
2) Things can be discussed, clarified, opinions expressed where
everyone can learn something.
What you put into it can very well be what you get out of it.
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:35:27 pm CDT
Although the issue of 3rd person speech has only been discussed at maybe 5 or 6 forums this year...
~Grunts~
Karima 21:37:43 pm CDT
Hmm.. I find it hard to believe that issues are sorted through EF, with no disrespect meant, tis obvious that they are not as they are raised time and again. Perhaps another way of "dealing" with these issues should be set in place.
Ulrich 21:38:06 pm CDT
The discussion on it tonight was because it is posted as a rule, though
fewer and fewer slaves seem to follow it.
Perhaps a ruling, and a posted rule change, or confirmation that it is not going to change will keep it from coming up again.
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:39:03 pm CDT
I think the last decision was that GS slaves were to speak in 3rd for the purposes of training, while personal slaves spoke at the preference of their owner.
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 21:39:12 pm CDT
*none taken Karima and the reason they are raised again is because some people still like to try to change that issue S*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 21:40:19 pm CDT
*it dosen't matter if a ruling does come up for it Ulrich as it will be brought up again another time S*
Ulrich 21:40:59 pm CDT
Was that posted in the council decisions?
Was there a change to the rule book that I'm not aware of?
Was there a vote by the Council?
I recall it being discussed, and perhaps proposed in forum, but I don't recall a decision.
Karima 21:42:43 pm CDT
~Smiling~ EF, tis understandable that some may not be satisfied with what has been mentioned, however, in regards to this forum, I did not see a hint of a resolution to the topic that was raised. What exactly will be bought up at Council for this issue to satisfy the majority?
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:44:04 pm CDT
Ulrich, when you only have 2 or 3 Council members responding to mails, it takes time to get any decision put in place.
desiree {Drusus} 21:44:57 pm CDT
des has another question....do the Council members have regular meetings to discuss these issues or are they handled via email?
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 21:45:01 pm CDT
*that will be up to the council to decide Karima S*
TARNSMAN_CAPTAIN_EMERITUS 21:46:00 pm CDT
*they are mostly handled by email des as most of the Captains have trouble getting on the same time as the others?*
Ulrich 21:46:25 pm CDT
That's true JT, and I understand that, which is why my opinion is we follow the rules as they are stated until they are changed.
Not arguing, just a healthy debate and stating my opinion.
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:46:33 pm CDT
Karima, it is impossible to satisfy the majority. IF a rule is changed, one way, or the other, there is going to be a few that do not like the change, or do not like the current. We only hear the opinions of a handful of people at these forums so in general, the council have to weight up the changes to see if it is for the betterment of GS, not just to satisfy a few people. A good example of that is tonight, I am the only one who believes a change is needed in the speech, though I do not know who brought the subject is, whereas everyone else is satisfied with 3rd person. I have to accept the majority decision.
Karima 21:52:34 pm CDT
~Returns the girls wink, before glancing in Jarls direction~
Aye, I understand your opinion, I am simply enquiring to the fact that issues are kept "open" and do not appear to be concluded. You say You want changes made in regards to the 3rd person speech, yet obviously it has either fallen on deaf ears, or perhaps it is an unwelcome change. Tis way I believe nothing much changes here, for there are too many people voicing their opinions. Perhaps a better alternative, is for the Council Members to simply make changes between them and the people accept them with no judgement?
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:53:43 pm CDT
GS supports their members, if the council were to simply change things at whim, I don't think Gary would make much money.
~Chuckles~
Ulrich 21:55:34 pm CDT
Aye Karima that is ultimately how it works.
But as I said, forum is intended to be a learning tool, a place for open discussion. The intention is not for it to become a bitch session, but sometimes it does digress. But it is one way to take the temperature of the people, and see what may or may not need to change. But changes do take time.
Karima 21:55:57 pm CDT
I am not suggesting changes be made at whim, Jarl. I am simply offering that changes be made.. full stop. Council Members have a role to play, and part of that role includes making decisions based on what is best for GS. If the majority cannot make a decision as to an issue, then perhaps the responsibility should fall upon the Members.
Original Sandman_Builder/Captain of Gs 21:57:26 pm CDT
nodding to Ulrich's words .. forums sometimes descend to bitch sessions,,shrugging but sometimes it better to let folks bitch ,, than just bitch behind our backs
The SKULLSPLITTER 21:58:22 pm CDT
The council usually DOES have the final say on an issue that is swaying to one side or the other. the process, however, is a lot more complicated than most people realise, because we all live in different countries and time zones so rely on Free time RT and mail.
Ulrich 21:58:29 pm CDT
Aye Sandman agreed. I'll bitch to your face if I have something to bitch about. lol
But yeah, sometimes it helps if everyone lets off some steam.
FORUM CLOSED