Present:
Thorrn
Keeper
Kazar
Bretval
Hunter
Dak
Lita
snowrose
aura
kahleesi
ruby
flicka
Dak 19:50:18 pm CDT
I have a toipic I will open The Forum
Positions and commands on Gor
"Nadu" might be the general Gorean word for "kneel." But, each time a girl is commanded to "nadu" in the books she assumes the position of the pleasure slave. The slave kneels back on her heels, resting her hands on her thighs. She maintains excellent posture with her back straight, her head up, and her breasts thrust forward. Her knees are widely spread. Thus, "nadu" may only refer to the pleasure slave position though the root word may derive from the Gorean word for "kneel." If a tower or house slave had been commanded to "nadu" and assumed the closed knee position, then it would be easy to see that "nadu" simply means "kneel" but without such a reference, we can only speculate. You will see many web sites state that "nadu" means "kneel" but that is not necessarily accurate. The books are not clear on that matter.
"Sula" is another undefined Gorean word that might possibly mean "back" or "prone." It was always used in the books as a command to a kajira. The kajira would lie on her back with her hands at her sides, palms up. Her legs would be spread wide apart. In this position, a kajira is ready for her master's pleasure.
"Bara" is another undefined Gorean word that might possibly mean "belly." It was always used in the books as a command to a kajira. The kajira would lie on her stomach, her head to the left, with her wrists crossed behind her and her ankles similarly crossed. Thus, the kajira would be ready to be bound by her master. This position is also known as the "standard binding position." "Bara" should not be confused with the command "belly" which has a much different meaning, which will be discussed later in this scroll. (cont)
Dak 19:50:51 pm CDT
(cont) This word is the first indication that these four words may simply be specific commands and not general words. Since "bara" and "belly" are two very different commands, a couple matters might be correct. First, bara may not be the exact Gorean word for "belly." Second, if this is true then the other words, nadu, sula and lesha, might also not be exact translations of Gorean words. They might all be only specific commands. But, without further evidence, again we can only speculate.
"Lesha" is another undefined Gorean word that might possibly mean "leash." This word is always used in the books as a command to a kajira. The commanded girl can be either standing or kneeling. She will then lift her chin, turning her head to the left. She also places her wrists behind her as though they were manacled. This would allow an owner to leash and bind a girl for travel.
"Leading position" is a command where a girl places her head down at her master's waist. He then fastens his left hand in her hair, keeping his right hand free to grab his sword if necessary. The master then walks, pulling his kajira behind him. This is usually only done for short distances. It may also be done in crowded areas if the master does not have a leash. (cont)
Dak 19:51:35 pm CDT
*cont)"Heel" is a command for a girl to stand behind her master, usually to walk behind him. Kajirae heel to the left of a right-handed master. If you walked on the right side, it would be seen as a sign of disfavor. If there are several girls following a master, the girl who is closest to the master is the one most favored.
"Bracelets" is a command generally given when a master wishes to place manacles upon a girl. It may also be given as a command simply to have the girl assume the position. In this position, the slave stands before her master, with her hips slightly turned to one side and her back and shoulders erect. Her wrists are then crossed behind her back and she turns her head to the left.
A common neck chaining position is for a girl to get on her hands and knees. This allows the master to easily attach a chain to a girl's collar. It could also be used to leash a girl as well.
"High-harness position" is another position used if you wish to leash a girl. The girl stands straight, her head held far back so a leash can be attached to her collar. It may also be used simply as a position for a girl to assume for either discipline or training purposes.
The position of the "serving slave" is mentioned very briefly in the books but is not described. It is named in opposition to the pleasure slave position. We can only speculate on how it differs.
Obeisance
(cont)
aura{Hunter} 19:52:00 pm CDT Master Dak did girl miss you calling for a topic?
Dak 19:52:30 pm CDT A well trained kajira is expected to know a variety of slave positions and be able to respond to a series of common commands. There is some erroneous information online concerning Gorean positions and commands as depicted in the novels. Positions such as "kar-ta" and "sula-ki" are never explicitly named in the novels. Their names have been created by others online to describe certain matters mentioned in the novels but never formally named. Other such positions have been created out of nothing and have no basis in the novels. This work shall show a number of named positions that exist in the novels and describe some unnamed positions and their uses. Other positions and commands do exist. The following is not an inclusive list.
Kneeling: The primary position for all slaves is kneeling. The Gorean word for kneel may be "nadu" but that is only speculation. In the books, "nadu" is only used as a specific command that will be further on in this scroll. All women, free and slave, kneel when sitting. Women who dare to sit cross-legged, like men, are seen as insolent and insulting. Slaves are not permitted generally to sit in chairs and could even be whipped or slain for daring to sit in one. Kajirae must commonly kneel when entering her owner's presence, if her owner is present nearby, or in the presence of any other free person. Kneeling though is a position that can be assumed easily and beautifully. A kajira can also rise from the kneeling position with beauty and grace. Kneeling is seen as a sign of respect, expressing the submission of a slave. In kneeling, all women, free and slave, are expected to carry themselves well. Their backs should be straight, their chin high, and they should be properly poised. Women do not slouch in such a position. When a girl kneels, it is customary for her to remain a few feet away from her owner. This distance symbolizes, along with the difference in height between a standing owner and kneeling kajira, the inferiority and lowly status of the slave. It also puts the slave in a position where she can be readily viewed. In addition, it puts enough space between the slave and master so that if the master desires to ravish the kajira, such desire will require an active decision to bridge that distance toward the girl. Thus, his desire will not be reflexively triggered. If a girl was to purposefully kneel very close to her master, this would be an indication of her desire to be ravished, hoping her master will act on his urges without consideration. (cont)
Dak 19:53:07 pm CDT
There are other positions and commands too, but this will give an example.
1. Why are certain positions designated for doing certain things on Gor?
2. What does assuming these positions do to/for the Master?
What to/for the slave?
3. Do you on-line issue such commands or demand such positions of a slave? Why or why not?
4. As a Free, do You know the positions, and would you klnow if the girl did them correctly or not?
5. Should we use them more in GS?
Lita, Physician 19:54:23 pm CDT
aura, if you have a topic, go ahead. Mine was a long one tonight, so I went ahead and submitted it early. It can wait.
aura{Hunter} 19:55:54 pm CDT
No Mistress Lita, aura just wondered
Dak 19:57:04 pm CDT
no, I didn't had one sent, so I opened with it ! one cares what I think anyway
aura{Hunter} 19:58:39 pm CDT
Jumps as Master Dak does the ! Showing his anger. ..... Snuggles into Master trembles
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:58:54 pm CDT
~seeing forum has begun, um she thinks, flicka picks up her quill and manages to spread a delightful smear of ink on her cute retrousse nose~
ruby~{Randolph} 20:01:07 pm CDT
swings her head around like a slingshot to the fearful aura
Lita, Physician 20:01:15 pm CDT
Dak if You do not wish to deal with My topic, feel free to skip it entirely.
Dak 20:03:09 pm CDT
it's fine with Me, *smiles*, Lady
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:03:10 pm CDT
~holding tightly to her Jarl's hand, a tentative smile to aura~
Master Dak, it is usual is it not, to call for topics before forum begins and also to establish if there is a scribe.
Dak 20:04:07 pm CDT
*smiles*, I posted it !
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:04:29 pm CDT
Grins...maybe these days the saying should no longer be the pen is mightier than the sword ..but rather the keyboard is mightier than the sword and cleaner than the quill
Lita, Physician 20:04:38 pm CDT
Well forgive Me for violating protocol!
Dak 20:05:21 pm CDT
what protocol , You are fine, Lady, *smiles*
Keeper of flicka 20:05:38 pm CDT
Very Short Succinct Answer Time.
1: For command and control.
2: See answer 1 and enhances power over slave.
3: Yes, when needed, but not usually required.
4: Yes. Well enough. 5: No, I do not see the need.
Keeper of flicka 20:05:54 pm CDT
Next Question?
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:07:32 pm CDT
aye the keybord with ones finger sis mightier then the pen winks at Keeper
Bretval, Merchant 20:09:30 pm CDT
Well put, Keeper... but since I have no slave I have no opinion until such time as I do
Keeper of flicka 20:09:30 pm CDT
Well a pen through the eye and a keyboard smashed over one's head would have the same result as a sword Kazar! ~laughing~
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:09:56 pm CDT
its a very broad topic but most of it comes down to individual preference...unless an edict is given that demands totally by the books of all patrons and slaves...and of course the training provided by slave class would see it so anyway and some is irelevant unless people actually come here to chat...I havent seen a soul since last forum
Keeper of flicka 20:10:33 pm CDT
Tal Captain Thorrn, Impeccable timing as always.
Lita, Physician 20:10:34 pm CDT
Bretval, Free often order slaves to assume positions and give them commands even if They do not own the particular slave.
Dak 20:11:54 pm CDT
personally, I thought the whole manual was a protocol for this site !
Keeper of flicka 20:13:04 pm CDT
You are right Hunter.
The is also 'The Rules' to consider.
RULE ONE: The Master is always right.
RULE TWO: If a Master is wrong, refer to RULE ONE.
Ergo it is what We as Masters prefer.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:13:20 pm CDT
barely seen a soul would be more correct...but you get My point
Bretval, Merchant 20:15:04 pm CDT
Well there is that Lita... but since the place is often empty there is no one to obey
Lita, Physician 20:15:18 pm CDT
I asked the questions because most training programs that I have seen on on-line Gor work the slaves very hard in learning and perfecting the positions and commands, but they are very seldom used, which seems kind of a waste. *shrugs*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:15:34 pm CDT
Positions of slave ... great, there is such a topic somewehre in the slave manuals of GS which i bookmarked and can open that one to loook the exact definitions up *chuckles*
I´m hopeless in rememebring the exact postions of tows, fingertips and such for each of the porsitions -ä but don´t tell My slave i think she didn´t noticed that so far *more chuckle*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:17:26 pm CDT
Nods over to Keeeper - that is the best and most important rule of all
Master is always right and can jave a slave doing it as He wants it.
My girls resp those which are in servcie for Me are not expected to act like perfectly trained and mad eup puppies.
Slavery goes for me beyond postions and such, slavery is soemthing i seek IN a girl.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:17:37 pm CDT
the manual could do with a re-write..there are contradictions
aura{Hunter} 20:18:33 pm CDT
Re the place being empty, if folks come in even alone and stay others will
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:18:56 pm CDT
Its a good guide...mostly a good document...but nevertheless not perfect....nor are we...although some may disagree on this...*S*
Keeper of flicka 20:19:07 pm CDT
Thorrn, if You Refer to THE RULES, if Your beautiful snowrose does the position correct in Your eyes, the reality is, it is correct. The manuals are similar to curricula at schools, a guide to what should be taught.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:19:56 pm CDT
You are correct Master Hunter, it is a graveyard at times, and this brings us back to the perennial question of how do we attract more people, both Masters and slaves.
Keeper of flicka 20:20:40 pm CDT
Oh dear; Hunter, mediocre minds think alike! ~Chuckling~ You were only seven second in front of Me.
Bretval, Merchant 20:21:24 pm CDT
I would assume they are taught in slave class... and I have used them... usually when annoyed or teaching which I learned, like Thorrn, by reading the GS manual
Lita, Physician 20:21:31 pm CDT
*laughs* Ah yes, Jarl Keeper, and you may not be aware, stateside, what a controversy there is going on regarding schools and the recommended manuals and curriculum, and teachers complaining they have to spend so much time teaching to the tests that no real learning takes place!
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:22:55 pm CDT
Lita, i think that is like with some things.
It is esy to question and test about such formal stuff than to test the spirit.
So when testing a slave what can a Master easily and quickly do - challange her for posiizons, servcies, greeting orders and such.
On the other side - many slaves like strict rules, well formed and expressed frames in which they are expected to behave and feel secure when having those, like something they can stick to and not fall or make flaws.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:24:29 pm CDT
Mistress Lita, Jarl Keeper has often referred to Your terrible education system, bemoaning the fact that we in our country are gravitating to the same problem, ie. tailoring the curriculum to the tests. Forget learning, giving children a broad base upon which to build their curiosity, lets just churn out little automatons.
Dak 20:24:45 pm CDT
I think that was the idea of The GS manual !
Lita, Physician 20:24:48 pm CDT
Oh I agree, Captain.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:25:24 pm CDT
thats why I say a four iron Keeper...(going OOC and begging pardon of all)...seven seconds faster owing to the lower trajectory
aura{Hunter} 20:25:27 pm CDT
Jumps again
Lita, Physician 20:26:35 pm CDT
rti. we are out of black wine here, which cannot be allowed. So I must go make some more.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:27:23 pm CDT
~chuckles at Mistress Lita~ Quelle horreur.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:28:09 pm CDT
Keeper
A slave is perfect when she is perfect in the eyes of her Owner, the bets of the rules
But a Master does well when sticking with His rules cloes to what is expected from a slave in general or His pet will often be in trouble because other Masters will complain about her behaviour when it it too special and not according to general rules of the society.
that is alwas a gap which has to be bridged in many of Oour doings and thinkings.
Keeper of flicka 20:28:51 pm CDT
Lita I am very aware of what is happening in the US. I am actively involved in making sure that the same teaching to test mode of teaching does no infect our way of teaching in Victoria Australia.
In My professional opinion it is morally reprehensible to teach anyone how to past a test and not (as Thorrn put it) the spirit and true meaning of the subject. It matters not if you are teaching submission or History the underlying meaning must be taught. ~Getting down off My soapbox.~
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:29:25 pm CDT
Lita
No slaves for doing the black wine there?
*grin*
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:31:00 pm CDT
Captain Thorrn agreed
that opens up the whole other paradigm of the master that punishes for its own sake and the slave that seeks out ways to be punished...best known as the Wannabe and the brat
Bretval, Merchant 20:31:09 pm CDT
Are not most of the items in the manual examples of a server or positions and are not to be used exactly...
Lita, Physician 20:34:28 pm CDT
Alas, no Jarl Thorrn, no slaves here. And we drink a whale of a lot of black wine!
Dak 20:34:50 pm CDT
I had a slave like that once, she wanted whipped, I punished her bu taking something that was dear to her, she never request or did anything trying to get punished again !
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:34:58 pm CDT
Bretval
The slave manuals are also used as kind of arbiter to decide if soemthing is right or wrong.#
Together with all the decisions the council made on gorean matters.
makes a note in My mind to come back to flicka´s remark about how to attract more slaves and Masters to the place.
Keeper of flicka 20:35:09 pm CDT
I agree with you Thorrn, that is why W/we have the Manual.
The Manual is guide that outlines expectations and the "general rules of society". You and I as Masters have the right to apply Our own interpretation within reason. It is the use of reason that makes what We are.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:37:05 pm CDT
Hunter
Punishing for it owns sake and a slave seeking punishment
Well, that isn´t very gorean but it is Dm-style which some like and enjoy.
It is not wel looked at when they do this in public places beacsue Gor is not D/m
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:38:58 pm CDT
Hearing Jarl Thorrn, we as slaves must "know" the "manual" positions. There are some Masters Who will expect them to be performed chapter and verse.
And.
The positions are well defined within the manual, within the definition it beholds a girl to make the position unique to her by the use of ornamentation, her description of self. As flicka has said so often, and so have others, the manual is a framework upon which to build one's Gorean self.
Just as flicka would feel it wrong to unthinkingly believe the literal sense of the Bible or the Koran or the Hindu Vettas, so too to take literally all that is written in the manual.
aura{Hunter} 20:39:17 pm CDT
Even in girls D/s life she wouldn't seek out to be punished *shivers*
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:41:01 pm CDT
as far as the absolute interpretation and practice goes...with regard to the original topic and the wider discussion
if the council demanded that we must enforce something that in past discussion we have proved entirely arbitrary...then I would try..both the books that ramble and a manual that is merely a guide and not law...then I think all would fail
Personally I dont have time nor inclination to read the entire works of John Norman just so I can relax and enjoy good company...nor have My head buried in the site manuals when a pretty slut is fetching ale...but one tries to grow and learn all the time..I am sure we all do
kahleesi-{Dak}- chain of issi 20:42:41 pm CDT
nods with aura in agreement
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:42:44 pm CDT
Nods to flicka
That is one meaning of the slave manuals.
Give the slaves a reliable outline to which they can cling and know when following the instructions of the GS manulas they are not to be childed or punished even when a foreign Master expects soemthing else.
Of cause the bad thing for slave sis - a Master can in a wide range do what He wishes , even whenHe doesn´t own the slave. Well, like there are good and bad slave there are also good and bad masters - you gotta live with it. There is no court for slave-complains on Gor *LOL*
ruby~{Randolph} 20:43:34 pm CDT
wonders what Master would desire a step- ford type slave anyway?..a girl attracts attention, by being uniquely herself. this pleases her Jarl..thus correct
Dak 20:44:10 pm CDT
show Me where in the manual it says it is only a guide, I think in the infinite wisdom of the creators of the manual, that they settled on the ways they printed, so it would NOT be so arbitrary !
Keeper of flicka 20:44:22 pm CDT
Your point is well made flicka.
It is impossible to slavishly (Pardon the pun) follow a text when the text itself has contradictions. Re: Hunters remark about the Manual.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:47:01 pm CDT
all the girls are unique....just have a look next time one kneels in nadu...pretty petals and breasts but all a bit different...and their words are no different
ruby~{Randolph} 20:47:04 pm CDT
remembers long ago having a plate..whipped out her hand..for a serve that was thought not correct..she was brave redid it..then cleaned up the flying pieces
girl was following the manual..it mattered not
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:47:46 pm CDT
~smiling sunnily at Jarl Thorrn~
Jarl that is it in a nutshell, the manual is a reliable outline that can and will protect a slave from the vagaries of a Master's whim.
~touching her Jarl's boot~ And while Jarl has some ahem ~blushing a little~ rather unique positions for flicka to assume, He would never chide a slave if she performed in accordance with the manual.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:47:55 pm CDT
slave manulas ... sin´t it a bit like the traffic rules?
You gotta know the ruels evry exactly and strict for the testing untul you get that driving license ... and then stick to the rules in a more braod and wirder senes.
No one expects a driver to know all the rules perfectly and literally and behave at any time literally to what is written.
likes the idea of driving slaves *g*
Keeper of flicka 20:49:05 pm CDT
The creators of the manual did not have infinite wisdom. I have met very few people with true wisdom and no-one has come close to the concept of infinite wisdom. They were merely flawed individuals like ourselves with their own opinions and ideas that are natually reflected in their writings, just as every author puts his or her personality into whatever they write. Everything you read contains opinion.
kahleesi-{Dak}- chain of issi 20:49:50 pm CDT
if one spent all the serve making it perfect then the Master wouldnt see her for who she is
aura{Hunter} 20:50:56 pm CDT
so true kahleesi and who wants a barbie doll *smiles*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:51:11 pm CDT
And it goes on
Usually the drivers get along with some lenience about the rules when driving but when it is not your lucky day you stumble over a cop who wnats you for the last letetr of a rule and then it is your bad. The cop is (usually) right and the driver is wrong and has to pay.
Same for the slaves, when it is your bad hair day you jump into a Master who wnats to show you who is the boss and then you get childed and when the MAste rkeeps to the manuals you slave lost - period.
Dak 20:51:51 pm CDT
I said their infinite wisdom , in that respect theirs would be the only one that counted, I'm sure they considered the aspects of all that was in the books !
Bretval, Merchant 20:52:02 pm CDT
How about the number of different people who contributed...
ruby~{Randolph} 20:53:13 pm CDT
smiles and agrees with that analogy..Jarl Thorrn
Dak 20:53:22 pm CDT
well, I guess it is like our Constitution he founders arbitrated on all the points of it to arive at what is there !
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:53:29 pm CDT
aura barbi doll measurements out of proportion grins
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:54:01 pm CDT
yes kahleesi..she remembers hearing some of the Masters rave about a particular slave of old how wonderful she was, how she lit up the, room, how much personality she had...well, one time the slave came in, and she was funny and cute...and nothing at all according to the manual...ane was praised to the skies...So sometimes the old days weren't as perfect as remembered
kahleesi-{Dak}- chain of issi 20:55:12 pm CDT
smiles brightly to snow with an added wink
Keeper of flicka 20:55:49 pm CDT
A very good analogy Thorrn.
~Keeping with Thorrn's analogy.~
I would add, W/we need to make "driving" enjoyable, not an exercise in pedantry otherwise no-one with use O/our section of the road, they will go elsewhere.
Yes; W/we must have structure, but O/our application of the rules must also motivate people to come.
aura{Hunter} 20:55:49 pm CDT
Remembers she thinks that slave and she was far from the manual
Hunter {aura}-taika- 20:56:39 pm CDT
it says in the 12th line down of the first page of the kairae manual
This slave manual is a way of helping you develop as a kajira of the tavern
now that says guide to Me...not absolute be all and end all parrot fashion litany
Dak 20:56:43 pm CDT
but even comparing it to driving, if you are stopped for doing something you usually do, that is against the rules even though it normally is processed, they can ticket for it, you canspeed and get away with it, but in the end if you are stopped YOU will be fined !
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:57:28 pm CDT
Abice al the disuccions of rules and how strict they have to be there is one asepct in onine Gor .... when the slyave are perfectly gorean but don´t find their fun here too they can run away, unlike in Gor.
So in the end the Masters are wisely advised to keep the happiness of the slaves in mind too.
Dak 20:57:54 pm CDT
well, when a girl says the litany, it better be word for word, that says it all !
Dak 20:59:31 pm CDT
I have run on to many slaves that have left Gor, that said the left becuz the Masters were not strict enough !
aura{Hunter} 21:00:32 pm CDT
Shrugs it must be wonderful to think one knows it all and is perfect, but oh boy it gets old, this girl would rather spend her time doing role play Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:00:39 pm CDT
one can obey the speed limit and stop at every light or sign..never get pulled over..yet still be a dangerous driver..sticking with the analogy
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:00:46 pm CDT
rules a re made too be broken and rewritten manuel isnt etched in stone ~`
Keeper of flicka 21:00:58 pm CDT
We (Australia) have a Constitution. The United Kingdom does not. Neither country really needs a Constitution in My opinion because both countries have Common Law, Rule of Law and 800 years of Precedent.
However I have digressed from the topic.
aura{Hunter} 21:01:34 pm CDT
Many have left because a Master went on and on about the manual
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:01:59 pm CDT
Nods to Keeper
One orders the other one obeyes sound so simple to do but like mostly the easy sounding things are not always easy to do. For a good Master slave relationship with joy on both sides (in the long runm temperayr it may be different) sometimes hard work is needed from BOTH.
Keeper of flicka 21:02:47 pm CDT
~Nodding to Thorrn~
Exactly.
Bretval, Merchant 21:02:52 pm CDT
Seriously Dak... the books are the worst kinds of supposed philosophy... he had to use a different name to avoid the university coming down on him for embarrassing them
aura{Hunter} 21:04:34 pm CDT
So true Master breathalyser makes interesting reading about the author the real person
Dak 21:04:49 pm CDT
and just what has that got to do with the printed word of the books???
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:05:10 pm CDT
~nodding agreement with aura~
The "I am perfect and I am correct" is usually the fallback position of the one's who lack perception and the ability to improvise to a given situation. Pedantry can be used to cover a lack of deeper understanding.
Keeper of flicka 21:05:39 pm CDT
Use them as a guide.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:05:45 pm CDT
relationships dont last very long without equal voice and strength of purpose....no matter how much one roleplays the master and slave are two earth beings and that is the most relevant thing can be said in My mind...arguing over a knee being half an inch too far left or right in a position is pretty darn stupid
Dak 21:06:32 pm CDT
if you believe in Gor, the manual IS etched in stone !
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:07:59 pm CDT
Dak
That is what i heard from slaves often to already, in here. The Masters are not strict enough or tthey are too gentle. That is something a MAster from earth has to learn here, like i had to learn too. slaves often want to feel that they are slaves and that they are objects of the will and orders of a Master. They need that and enjoy that.
It is like so often - a Master had to deal with His slave and find out ... which is a very gorean atitude. Gorean Masters deal and care for their slaves, the know about them a lot and act to what they know.
a hint for the MAles .... females love it when a Man deals withe their wishes and likings and dislikings and all such. They love the attention .,.. rt, gorean, vt , non-gorean ... give attention and women are likely to drop to your feet *s*
Keeper of flicka 21:08:09 pm CDT
Aura if you read and deeply analyse a few hundred words of original text you can learn more about the author than you would from a barrage of psychological test.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:10:02 pm CDT
what does believe in Gor mean?
Keeper of flicka 21:12:52 pm CDT
Etched in stone! (John 11:35).
I do not think anything from JN or the many derivatives have ever been etched in stone either literary or metaphorically!
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:13:21 pm CDT
What You say is true to some extent Jarl Thorrn, and while flicka swoons at the feet of strong Masters, flicka's intellect will not allow her to do so at the feet of fools.
Bretval, Merchant 21:13:40 pm CDT
the manual was written on Earth not Gor... since there is no Gor
aura{Hunter} 21:14:22 pm CDT
Chuckles your so wise Jarl Keeper
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:14:28 pm CDT
Dak
Only a few things are etched in stone.
The 10 laws of the bible for those who are from that religion - though got to wkipedia and try to find out WHICH 10 ruels. They differ a lot,. all those different rules which developed.
The decisions of the Council of Captains are etched in Stone and overwrite ay manuals, if the Captains care to do so.
The manuals are a good outline and a slave better sticks to the slave mamnuals but it is subject to changes. Some topics more likely than others, that i admit , but not all and every topic handled in the slave manuals is etched in stone.
Dak 21:14:34 pm CDT
Gor is a principle, of master and slave in the pens of Gor they train slaves how to and what to do to please Masters, ALL Masters, NOT just their owner !
Dak 21:15:28 pm CDT
aye, captain, but Gor has it's own Bible,*smiles*
Keeper of flicka 21:15:56 pm CDT
~Chuckling~
~Nodding My head.~
Yep, flicka, that's a fact.
After 12 years I know that better than anyone on Urth or Gor.
An intelligent mind is a beautiful thing.
aura{Hunter} 21:16:07 pm CDT
One must learn to Master ones self before they can be Master to another
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:16:32 pm CDT
touche Bretval
Gor is ALWAYS a world in the mind and nowhere else ... and all the books JN wrote are of very different quality and have contradictions in many ways.
aura{Hunter} 21:17:57 pm CDT
my Master auras real time is demanding her sadly girl has to work if she may have permission to leave
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:18:06 pm CDT
a principle?....dont be ridiculous Dak..I mean its fiction right...or did I miss something?
Geez I am startin to worry about you mate
Dak 21:19:20 pm CDT
so does the BIBLE, do with throw the baby out with the bathwater ! the roleplay of Gor isn't about disputing every word Norman wrote!
Keeper of flicka 21:19:46 pm CDT
Thorrn, let's face it, the world is full of contradictions without any input from the JN books, the manual and the Council, then your add in personal opinion, then, your head hurts!
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:19:54 pm CDT
no need to ask in forum My love....take care lovely woman
Bretval, Merchant 21:20:31 pm CDT
Ahhh so, Dak, since You are the only one with the stone tablets then you expect all the slaves to please you and to hell with anyone else
Dak 21:21:34 pm CDT
so Gor has NO principles, why do we bother ??
Keeper of flicka 21:21:53 pm CDT
Dak the Decalogue is a not a great example.
There are better example of the importance of following rules in the Koran.
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:21:54 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn, exactly, so nothing is etched in stone, because the manual may be over ruled by the Council, and then when there is a new council, they may over rule what the old council said.
A wise saying: "nothing is certain except taxes and death and we all think we might be able to cheat death."
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:22:21 pm CDT
Dak, even when those things are etched in stone and steel it doesn´t matter when the people who are actualyl running this place, i do not mean the Captains alone but ALL who come in and form the living part of this place, don´t act according to those ruels and just handle them more lenient then THIS are rules which are valid.
Written rules are nice - but not alive.
Written rules can help alot but not for everything.
MAy be that is why the crowd in here and You are often not understanding each other, You tend to insist in each little letter of a 100 pages book and don´t give in to modifications.
Have a try and find put much and how often the bible and the koran got changed till they have been looked at as permament specimens. Some took the time of several hundreds of years to become so static as they are now.
Dak 21:24:41 pm CDT
according to Gor, and Master a slave is serving has control at that time , so the reason for the manual so there is no argument ! like now if the manual was followed we wouldn't be arguing over it, right??
Bretval, Merchant 21:24:46 pm CDT
Hell the Bible is even worse... Old and New Testaments are schizophrenic
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:24:48 pm CDT
chuckles at flicka and her statement about what is certain
Very well said.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:25:36 pm CDT
Well said Thorrn
and think on this ...every word Norman wrote is true...but only on the page and within the bounds of the readers imagination....just the same as many would say about the bible...its all a matter of belief...and the wisdom to choose the right things to believe....but I am not sure Gor qualifies on that level however much we may enjoy the roleplay
when all is said and done its just a bit of fun to pass the time...if its more than that see a shrink
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:25:46 pm CDT
but whether a slave rolls her shoulders in nadu, or lifts her head in a different order than the guideline is not a matter of principle. It's really just trying to make it more interesting than the same old same old.. It's not deep, it's not disrespectful, it's not lazy, it's not just saving the good stuff for one's own Master
ruby~{Randolph} 21:26:39 pm CDT
nothing is certain except a Frees word..either..there is no negociation
Keeper of flicka 21:26:47 pm CDT
~Nodding to Thorrn.~
The Bible did change.
There are over 50 gospels originally.
Only four were used.
Exactly why W/we should not slavishly follow what is written without thinking.
(Would you like a list of the gospels?)
~Chuckling because life is far too important to take seriously.~
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:27:41 pm CDT
To say:
if you believe in Gor, the manual IS etched in stone ! is akin to saying if you are communist Mao Tse Tung's Little Red book is etched in stone.
There would be many Trotskyists or Stalinists who would disagree with you.
That is an incorrect paradigm
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:28:29 pm CDT
The manual is there to teach people in an alien environment...and it does a good job of it mostly....actually I would be more worried about how dead the corks are....cos there is the barometer of the life of the place
Dak 21:29:17 pm CDT
but for Gor, there I only one set of books, *shrugs*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:29:32 pm CDT
Making it more interesting and excting beyond the same old smae, that is what a hood slaves needs to elarn or things will get boring.
Well said My snowrose *S*
When you etch things in stone don´t wodner that things become liveless and without spice, that is what i think about always the same ole same.
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:30:19 pm CDT
Master Hunter flicka has made 293 postings on the corks since she opened her account on 20th June 2012, has flicka been a good girl?
~laughing softly~
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:32:01 pm CDT
yes flicka is a good girl....grins....but you understand what I say
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:33:37 pm CDT
Dak
For Gor there is an endless set of different books because Gor lives only in our fantasy - inspired by what JN wrote but the pictures, expectations and visons JN´s books ignited are different in each mind.
So everyone one of Uus has a different Gor on mind when speaking about it. Words aren´t everything - the fantasy paints them into pictures and dreams and help Me whoeever i don´t hope i have the smaes dreams as everyone else in here. I want to be a bit more indivdual.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:33:41 pm CDT
~laughs~ snow is embarrassed by the number she has made flicka...and just remembered on she should do tonight
Keeper of flicka 21:34:09 pm CDT
A good point Hunter, another analogy is language.
One of the reasons W/we are not speaking Latin in our universities is that Latin was not flexible enough to cope with new demands place upon it by an ever changing world.
"Requiescat in Pace"
English changes to what W/we want and is a living language.
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:34:09 pm CDT
Totally Master Hunter, it is a good barometre of the "life" of a chat room, and make no mistake, that is all that Gorean Shores is. A chat room where people of like minds can congregate and live out a fantasy.
Bretval, Merchant 21:34:47 pm CDT
I would like to see more bios on the corks...
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:35:40 pm CDT
Dak - You started the forum and this topic but i hope You will agree when i decide that the topic has been discussed in most if it´s asepcts and there will not come up more tonight.
The discussion starts to run in circles as i think and so wi declare the topic closed - every one who disagrees may post a last statement on this and then this topic is definitely closed for tonight.
Keeper of flicka 21:35:51 pm CDT
Note to self: Write an autobiography.
No one else will write an autobiography for Me!
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:36:25 pm CDT
~chuckling~ mistress snowrose has made 931 posts on the corkboards, of course we do have an advantage cause we do scribings and stuff.
Dak 21:36:27 pm CDT
well, this site is based on the 1st 25 Norman wrote, and also this site is based on the time before Port Kar had a Homestone so I think that is pretty specific!
Keeper of flicka 21:36:49 pm CDT
Dictum, Factum.
Said and Done.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:37:03 pm CDT
Keeper
english is a living language because it killed all competitors for the lingua franka
*grin*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:37:28 pm CDT
bet flicka could Jarl .. You two know each other so well
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:38:12 pm CDT
~laughing at her Jarl~ aren't most autobiographies written after the person is dead, or so a very silly person tried to convince flicka once a long time ago.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:39:04 pm CDT
Good ide Keeper to fill the gaps of all the mssing bios ... admits Myself to be guilty too *S*
Dak 21:39:34 pm CDT
very well Captain, I will close the Forum, and thank all for coming and participating in a lively forum.
thanks flicka for scribing , *smiles*
Keeper of flicka 21:39:54 pm CDT
~laughing~
No argument here Thorrn.
The German Language is alive and well with 100 million speakers.
Not too sure about High German?
Bretval, Merchant 21:40:01 pm CDT
And there was variation in most of those books, Dak...
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:40:35 pm CDT
Thank You Master...forum is never dull these days ~smiles~
Thank you for scribing , flicka...
Bretval, Merchant 21:40:47 pm CDT
I am done...
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:41:01 pm CDT
~smiling at Jarl Thorrn tongue firmly in flicka's cheek~
Jarl perhaps that could be an assignment for all the Masters and Mistress Lita, to write a bio before next forum.
~evil little chuckle~ and flicka and mistress snowrose will vet them.
ruby~{Randolph} 21:41:26 pm CDT
thank You for leading Master Dak
thank you pretty flicka for scribing
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:41:55 pm CDT
Thank You Master Dak ~wicked smile~ You certainly hone flicka's mind.
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:43:12 pm CDT
Master Bretval Your bio makes interesting reading. ~smiles~
Keeper of flicka 21:43:26 pm CDT
Mmmm, flicka, you may proof-read Mine.
OOC- Let's be honest flicka, your proof-reading was worth at least 5% of My marks all through University! Shhhh
It is O/our little secret!
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:43:28 pm CDT
~winks to flicka~ good idea
Dak 21:43:42 pm CDT
lke I said Bretval, the ones that wrote the manuals, too what they thought was pertinent and made it up to run together for this site, online there is no way to do exactly as the books say, and most of the variations come from the locals of Gor but many things were the same throughout.
Bretval, Merchant 21:43:46 pm CDT
Thanks for scribing, flicka
Keeper of flicka 21:44:21 pm CDT
Thank You for leading Dak.
Thank You for the scribbles flicka.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:44:21 pm CDT
I will write on that on the corks flicka, writing bios a lot .
Dak
I thank You for leading this forum as You do so often and i thank You explicitely though We are often in different opinion. You do a very good job with the forums and did so over a long time already.
Thank you flicka for scribing *S*+
Keeper ... high german alive ... i will ask that question when i´m in switzerland the next time *ROFLOL*
Dak 21:44:43 pm CDT
oh, do I flicka?? *smiles*
Keeper of flicka 21:45:24 pm CDT
~Laughing~
Don't ask Thorrn, the Swiss to not have a sense of humour that I am aware of!
ruby~{Randolph} 21:45:29 pm CDT
winks to flicka..an insightful idea..bios due..by noon..Sun 6/1/14..EST
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:45:47 pm CDT
snowrose thinks she wrote one long ago and posted it on the shadow board. Slave Talk...someone, maybe shadow, started a topic~ "And you are?"
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:45:56 pm CDT
Yes Master Dak.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:46:04 pm CDT
forum is an endless circle of late despite the fireworks
Keeper of flicka 21:46:38 pm CDT
~Grins at ruby~
Autobiography.
Umm, that's not in the manual!
~Laughing~
Dak 21:47:01 pm CDT
there is nothing with people having different opinions, *smiles*, Captian !
Keeper of flicka 21:48:21 pm CDT
Different opinions: Does anyone want the list of 50+ gospels?
~Evil grin~
No takers?
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:49:42 pm CDT
~laughing~ Indeed Master Dak, as a bondsmaid to be in agreement with the words of a Master takes very little brain power. But to be in disagreement with a Master and to attempt to refute Him, while still remaining true to what one is, ie a bondsmaid takes a great exercise of brain power, and You Master Dak evoke that in flicka.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:49:59 pm CDT
maybe later Jarl Keeper
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:52:34 pm CDT
Hunter
Over such a long time the forum is going it is hard to avoid some circles and repetions.
Pleas feel free to add other topics, the forum leaders are ALWAYS happy to receive new ideas in the whispers.
*S*
This is valid for all other takers too ... come up with what topic you would like to have it being discussed. We enjoy all topics.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 21:58:36 pm CDT
Captain Thorrn the problem isnt a topic...what it is, is that forum will fail as long as it fails to adress the underlying causes of a dying site...and simply argues over differing agendas..the topics are soon forgotten because there is something that has both Free and slaves at unease..even if they prefer not to say it..its very evident
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 22:01:58 pm CDT
dying site? she doesn't think the site is dying. we have some very opinionated and active people here. But we are also a site of busy active people in real life. All sites have ups and downs
Dak 22:02:35 pm CDT
I agree snowrose, *smiles*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 22:06:16 pm CDT
Hunter
agreed - so lets come up with those underlying reasons with the downgoing of the site and how to change it. That is indeed the most important topic Wwe have actually !!!!
Hunter {aura}-taika- 22:06:22 pm CDT
yes its dying....thats My view....make of it what you may....its true that chat is dying in general...sites are closing down...permanently empty rooms galore...so its not just a site thing....but here at GS its at a crisis point of its own
Keeper of flicka 22:07:58 pm CDT
I heartily agree Thorrn,
A series of forums to improve the site?
If done right it could be productive.
Dak 22:08:12 pm CDT
GS has bounced back many times, since I've been around !
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 22:09:42 pm CDT
it's slow and needs more people, that's true. she makes recommendations for events, but her opinion is different.
Keeper of flicka 22:13:20 pm CDT
Nothing stays the same for ever.
Empires come and go, or rebuilt.
So, yes, time for revitalisation.
The one thing W/we can A/all agree upon is that W/we want this place to continue.
That is easy.
Let's work from that point.
That will not be so easy.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 22:14:37 pm CDT
I think it can be saved....but it wont be easy..it will need strong leadership and willing minds prepared to put in the effort of spending time in the tavern ...people prepared to put self interest aside for the good of the many also
thats apart from the technolgy itself..this antiquated software cant compete with the flash new sites around where chatters get big icons for free....even if they are fairly empty..but thats another matter of course
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 22:14:54 pm CDT
I´m afraid i have to agree with sceptical remarks about chat sites, they seem go down, people are communicating in other ways than some years ago. I think spoken in time spans of computers Wwe are already a kind of dinosaurs to stick to chat. I still prefer it, i don´t like all that skyping and talking. I enjoy the qiuietness of chat though it means to move my fingers a lot.
I don´t know if it is possible nor if we will be able to do it, to move GS out of that crisis but i know i will go on trying and do what i can to add my skills and good will to keep this place a love and see that it is pleasure for those who are coming in.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 22:17:00 pm CDT
i like the old fashioned styl of chat places without all the bells and whistles ... i think that is because i´m a bit old style and old fashioned *grin*
Dak 22:17:51 pm CDT
I agree with that, Thorrn
Hunter {aura}-taika- 22:19:03 pm CDT
So do I Thorrn...I actually like the solitude at times..waiting to see if someone turns up ...IM has its place...but it isnt a place ..if that makes sense
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 22:19:03 pm CDT
snow likes this format. who needs bigger pictures...and this gives one time to keep up, sometime be thoughtful about how to word it.
People are the heart and soul of a place, not flash
but then snow is an old fashioned girl...her friends all hate her because she won't text...she will have to for work this summer and is not happy
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:19:16 pm CDT ~nodding her agreement with Jarl Thorrn~
flicka could not manage a serve at all in a fast paced chatroom. ~shuddering~ there is a formal cadence to serving in this format.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 22:21:30 pm CDT
I think i understand what you mean Hunter.
I enjoy the quietness and that i decide when the board scrolls on and not is on a permamnet movong and moving and all the blinking and glittering stuff wanting your attention.
I prefer to concentartes on what peopel posted and talked.
Hunter {aura}-taika- 22:21:47 pm CDT
grins at snowrose....thats a refreshing view girl...I hate txts also and yes your right...nevertheless people generally go where its noisiest and shiniest...always have and always will..this place was the latest bells and whistles once