Present:
Sandman
Ramses
Kazar
Dak
Kuurus
Lita
shimmer
karma
natira
karinda
snowrose
angelsigh
flicka
Dak 19:33:04 pm CDT
if any has a topic whisper to Me an I will open the Forum
Dak 19:41:14 pm CDT
Ok, I have a topic, I will open the forum, same rules keep greetings and chit chat to whispers , for the benefit of the scribe
Dak 19:42:16 pm CDT
karinda has an announcement, go ahead karinda
karinda {GS} 19:45:30 pm CDT
thank You Master Dak....
tomorrow we are going to have a game night.....it had been postponed due to the holiday last week. it is VERY VERY important we have a ton of slaves 7:30 tomorrow evening.
Lita, Physician 19:46:16 pm CDT
Today's Topic
Master/slave Relationships
Quotes For This Week
"Did you know that Hendow is thinking of placing restrictions on your use?" he asked. "Why would he do that?" I asked.
"I think he is fond of you," he said.
"I am pleased, if my master finds me pleasing," I said.
"Has he never ordered you to him?" asked Mirus.
"No," I said.
"Interesting," said Mirus. "Normally he disciplines new girls well."
I shuddered. I had no doubt that Hendow, my master, could discipline a woman well. He seemed remote, and mighty. He was the master of the entire tavern, and of all the girls. There were twenty-seven of us. I was terrified of him.
"But I do not think he will really put restrictions on your use," he said.
"Why not?" I asked.
"I do not think it would be good for your discipline," he said.
"I understand," I said. In relationships between men and women, it is a common observation that the relationship tends to be improved considerably when the woman is subject to his usage. When she knows that that a fellow may, if he wishes, simply hurl her to his feet and put her to woman uses, she is likely to behave rather differently toward him than toward one who does not have this power over her.
- Dancer of Gor, Page 234
(Editor's oversights included)
I had been first, at least for a time, on at least some of the lists at the baths in Brundisium. Too, I had been a fine dancer, one of the finest, I suspect, in Brundisium! If they could have seen me curling about a man’s feet in an alcove, licking and kissing them, then inching upward, piteously, hopefully, then kneeling beside him, looking up, kissing, licking, pleading, I do not think they would have been so quick to dismiss me as a mere "pot girl." Tela, too, I am sure, was angry. After all, not only had she once been a rich free woman, of high family and significant station, of a fine city, Lydius, but even after her capture, and her prompt reduction to total and absolute bondage, she had been found so beautiful, so luscious and desirable, that she had been chosen over many women for the rectangle of red silk in the tent of Aulus. Mina and Cara, too, I think, were not too pleased. Certainly the beauty of neither was negligible, and I am sure they were both well aware of this. Both, and I am sure they understood this, would be likely to bring a high price on the slave block. Had there been originally any doubt in the minds of these fellows as to our desirability, or potential, those doubts, surely should have been dispelled earlier, in the authoritative, intimate examinations to which we had all been helplessly subjected. What more would they have wished to do, put us to their full pleasure? Perhaps they could take us home for a week on a trial basis!
"Very well," said the little fellow. "Consider them pot girls, cleaning slaves, laundresses, what have you, it matters not to me. Put them to your lowest servile tasks. Whip them back when they would crawl pleading on their bellies to your couches! What does it matter to me!"
I think we were all startled to hear him exclaim in this fashion. Certainly we were exquisite slave flesh, all of us! I doubted that there were many slave bars on Gor to which five women such as we were fastened. To be sure, almost all female slaves on Gor must expect to be put to domestic labors, cooking, sewing, cleaning, washing, ironing, and such. We were women. Even free women, in households without slaves, perform such labors. How, then, could we expect to be exempt from them? Sometimes even high pleasure slaves in the palaces of Ubars must, if only to remind them that they are slaves, on their hands and knees, stripped and chained, scrub floors. Still, surely we were good for far more than such things. Did the beauty of our faces, and our slave curves, not suggest that? Surely the first and most essential office of the female slave, and, indeed, of any sort of female slave, is to be pleasing to the master.
- Dancer of Gor, Page 387......
Lita, Physician 19:46:56 pm CDT
Whoops! Sorry! That should have been in whisper! *sigh*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 19:48:09 pm CDT
snowrose will probably miss most , if not all of it, karinda
Dak 19:48:23 pm CDT
Questions
1) What struck you the most about today's quotes? What "hit home"?
2) The Master/slave relationship can be many different things here on Gor. As a Master, what style do you prefer? As a slave what style do you prefer?
3) What does being pleasing mean to you?
4) Describe some traits of your idea of a "perfect" Master? a "perfect" slave?
karinda {GS} 19:49:36 pm CDT
wow.....emotional topic
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:50:47 pm CDT
l karinda i bowl on monday nights wont be home till about 9,30
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 19:51:49 pm CDT
no worries Lita,, a good topic and some good quotes
Lita, Physician 19:52:55 pm CDT
Thank You, Captain
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 19:53:04 pm CDT
The uncertainty of her life as a slave...at any time, it can all change
Dak 19:53:40 pm CDT
what I expect from a slave is exquisite beauty , perfection, obedience and serving to highest level of their silks !
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 19:55:05 pm CDT
snowrose prefers strict Masters who do not tolerate anything less than her very best...who do not suffer princesses gladly.
But deep down, she adores them all..
shimmer{GS} 19:59:31 pm CDT
question one...
it struck girl that at any time it pleasures Masters he may order her under strict discipline to the whip or to the work of kettle slaves or manual labor... just to remind her that she is a slave and at their mercy...
question 2... girl desires a strict and stern Master but one that has personality and humor...that is not afraid to show her her slavery and guide her in it... to make her feel the lash upon her back and his hot organ in the furs making her whimper and beg for the opportunity to please him...
3. to show devotion love and obedience while still being herself with all her faults and problems she still comes to her Master for guidance
4.strict.. firm... humor... warmth... disciplinarian...
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:01:50 pm CDT
as for me I prefer to be a master that doesn't have to shout or yell, a hard look a stern expression should be all that is necessary to deal with a good slave,, unfortunately I have had to whip more than one
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:03:00 pm CDT
and I prefer a slave that reacts to subtlety
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:03:14 pm CDT
~Question 4. Jarl Keeper.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:06:22 pm CDT
she too feels her Master is the perfect Master for her...He took a naive young girl, and after a lot of thought, and some sincere begging trained her...It took many months before she dared to beg His collar...
As to a perfect slave, she does not believe their is such an animal...we should be learning and growing all our lives
Lita, Physician 20:06:23 pm CDT
Question for the slaves. What if you were sold to a Woman, or to a Free Man who for whatever reason declined to use you sexually. How would you deal with that?
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:06:59 pm CDT
~sighs~ there is such an animal
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:09:23 pm CDT
looks to snow...there is such an animal
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:10:57 pm CDT
snowrose was correcting her own error...she had said their is karma
Qazir 20:11:06 pm CDT
I am that animal
angelsigh {HOK} 20:11:35 pm CDT
~ shy smiles to Misstress Lita~ a slave is not just for use in the furs Mistress to have ones Mistress think one was pleaseing is joy within it self. When seriving a Mistress or a Master the task should enough for the slave .
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:11:47 pm CDT
nods ...karma read it wrong mistress
Dak 20:12:43 pm CDT
obviously, you have not red many of the books, angelsigh, *smiles*
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:13:23 pm CDT
I have a hard time with the concept of a perfect slave or master I don't know anyone who couldn't improve,, that doesn't mean I don't think some set very high standards
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:14:05 pm CDT
Is this FW or Master restricting us from all sexual use, or just His or Her own use.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:14:40 pm CDT
~looks to Master Sandman and laughs softly~ ok, that was not subtle
angelsigh {HOK} 20:15:05 pm CDT
~ looks down~ one does not claim to have read the book Master Dak..
one knows that if she was to serve only a Mistress her one desire would be to be found pleaseing ..
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:15:12 pm CDT
Mistress Lita, flicka thinks it would be challenging to have a Mistress owning a girl. But it would probably be effective in helping flicka to be better. Mind you it could have a reverse effect and cause flicka to become only worth 2 coppers when the Mistress decided to remove her head from her body.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:15:27 pm CDT
~looks to Master Qazir~ may the first girl test You some time Master?
Dak 20:16:07 pm CDT
a slave may not always be perfect, but should strive for perfection at all times, Masters are just Masters, there is n such requirement !
Qazir 20:16:38 pm CDT
are slaves for sexual use?
natira{GS} 20:16:42 pm CDT
giggles softly listening
Lita, Physician 20:18:19 pm CDT
Either way, snow. It is a theoretical question, in a way. But, in the books Free Women did own slaves, and might not allow or give Their slaves the opportunity for sexual use within Their Homes. And the one quote showed that Master Who wanted the 5 slaves made kitchen slaves as apparently not allowing them sexual use. ""Very well," said the little fellow. "Consider them pot girls, cleaning slaves, laundresses, what have you, it matters not to me. Put them to your lowest servile tasks. Whip them back when they would crawl pleading on their bellies to your couches! What does it matter to me!"
Qazir 20:18:24 pm CDT
I am open for testing but I am known to get it right 1 way or the other some would say I cheat
Lita, Physician 20:19:12 pm CDT
According to the books, Qazir, that was their main use! *LOL*
Qazir 20:19:44 pm CDT
what about all the lesbians butch type Lita? or do we say their arent any in all of Gor
Dak 20:20:00 pm CDT
even kitchen slaves usually have a Kitchen Master, ho has the use f the slaves in His control !
natira{GS} 20:20:37 pm CDT
but wouldn't expecting perfection when perfection is not attainable just be waiting for punishment for the slave?
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:21:27 pm CDT
yes Mistress...snowrose would try her best, whatever the situation...she cannot promise to be happy, not be yearning for more of a life...but she would be obedient, respectful and devoted...and exquisitely beautiful goes without saying
Lita, Physician 20:21:50 pm CDT
Qazir, homosexuality was not acceptable in Gor. the slave milo's Master was accused by others of using milo sexually, and was much looked down upon by Others, and the other Free looked down upon HIm because of it.
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:22:22 pm CDT
smiles to natira ,, perfection cannot be attained,, but still should be strived for and any Master or Mistress can decide if the slave hits close enough to the mark to be pleasing
Qazir 20:23:14 pm CDT
so it was done some just frowned upon the acts if they found out about it
Lita, Physician 20:23:22 pm CDT
So, Qazir, homosexuality was all but non-existant on Gor, and what there was, was of necessity, kept as well hidden as possible.
Dak 20:23:33 pm CDT
My definition of perfection is an imperfect person striving for perfection, knowing they can never attain it!
natira{GS} 20:23:42 pm CDT
~flashes a grin to Master Sandman~ natira doesn't know about anyone else simply knows that no matter the situation natira strives to be as perfect as she can be in her imperfections
Qazir 20:23:52 pm CDT
perfection can be captured in moments and delighted in
karinda {GS} 20:24:09 pm CDT
sounds like karinda Master Dak....it is actually quite frustrating.
Lita, Physician 20:24:38 pm CDT
It has been a long time since I read that particular book, Qazir, but I believe milo's Master was severely punished for His supposed homosexuality. Does anyone else recall?
Qazir 20:25:18 pm CDT
I say it is time to open the eyes of Gor and let the Love, on same sex flow
shimmer{GS} 20:28:28 pm CDT
perfection it the un attainable dream but small dreams bring you closer to the ultimate goal...
Dak 20:28:35 pm CDT
I don't remember Him being punished per se, just He was heartbroken to find His love slave milo had feelings for a female !
Dak 20:30:02 pm CDT
I hope that never happens with in Gor, Qazir
Qazir 20:30:24 pm CDT
lets have a Gay Gorean parade
Lita, Physician 20:31:28 pm CDT
Qazir, the purpose of Gorean role-play is to re-enact the World of Gor. If you go introducing things that were not part of that world, then you are no long doing Gorean Role-play, and might as well go back to the BDSM rooms
Dak 20:35:12 pm CDT
same here I believe want to make Gor like BDSM! as it is anymore, there is enough BDSM influence, that at times it doesn't seem like the Gor I originally came to !
Qazir 20:35:56 pm CDT
Lita I like to rp Gorean, as what I would do if I was actually on Gor and I would exercise Freedom as I am a Freeman
Qazir 20:36:56 pm CDT
what does same sexual expression have to do with BDSM ?
Lita, Physician 20:37:38 pm CDT
Thing is, Qazir, even as a Free Man, Your Freedom only extends as far as the sword tips of other Free Men. There were laws and Magistrates on Gor, and even Free Men had to obey them or suffer the consequences.
Qazir 20:38:10 pm CDT
but the guys dont even fur gorean these days
Lita, Physician 20:38:43 pm CDT
Qazir, same sexual expression, as far as I know, is accepted in BDSM.
Dak 20:38:59 pm CDT
well, for one thing I don't come to Gor for any considerations of same sex couplings, I come to Gor to get away from it !
shimmer{GS} 20:39:30 pm CDT
yea well we no longer have those good old days so forget them and enjoy what you do have girl is tired of always being told back in the old days of Gor life was perfect... well you are Free make them Perfect again or deal with what is given now...
Lita, Physician 20:39:44 pm CDT
Qazir, what do You mean by "not even furring Gorean these days"?
Lita, Physician 20:42:12 pm CDT
That is exactly what We are trying to do here, shimmer. And even those of us who are VERY "Old-Time-Gor" do not claim it was perfect. But, Disney Gor had not yet been born back then either!
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:42:24 pm CDT
snowrose is certainly still furred in a Gorean manner. by All who use her
Dak 20:42:58 pm CDT
I learned to fur Gorean many years ago, and still do it that way , I have seen others do so as one might see in a BDSM room,
Qazir 20:43:31 pm CDT
sorry Lita not all in BDSM approve of same sex and really there are gay lovers that are not into BDSM
Lita, Physician 20:44:28 pm CDT
I wouldn't know about that, Qazir.
shimmer{GS} 20:45:32 pm CDT
girl has never been furred in any way other than Gorean well once along tome ago but the Master was new to Gor and stuck in his friend said ohhhhh that was good laced up his leathers and left... but well girl does not think that counts as bdsm or Gor just a new person that did not know how to furr or was so turned with the for play that he had to leave...
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:46:03 pm CDT
Mistress Lita, flicka also is VERY "Old-Time Gor" and would disagree with Your statement that Disney Gor had not been born back then. There were many homes in which "play Gor" was enacted. But flicka would say to You as she would say to Master Dak, nostalgia has rose tinted glasses, we tend to forget the warts when we look back to the past.
Qazir 20:46:16 pm CDT
I have not watched you fur Dak but I am sure you fur well... Some act as furing slaves is like making love and that the girl is all into it and so on they are slaves whores more or less yes in the rare occasion there is a love slave relationship
Qazir 20:47:30 pm CDT
what is disney Gor?
Lita, Physician 20:50:07 pm CDT
*(chuckles* Yes, flicka, I remember one Home back then that claimed vampires had been brought to Gor in the Voyages of Acquisition! However most of us simply did not go there. The difference is back then, homes like that were rare, and you could always find Book Homes to go to. Now Disney Gor Homes are in the majority, and it is difficult to find a good, By-the-Book Home to go to.
Dak 20:51:21 pm CDT
oh, read the books, they were often not used just as whores as you put it, used as slut, the definition of slut is needing sex, and it not mattering who from, but very loving and forcing the pleasures of sex upon the slave !
Qazir 20:51:26 pm CDT
so is GS more disney Gor? and that is how the majority want it
natira{GS} 20:51:53 pm CDT
the Gor where the home bends everything to their whim...natira would call it soft core Gor ~giggles~
Dak 20:53:14 pm CDT
in he books, many Masters prided themselves in what peaks they could bring a slave to !
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:53:40 pm CDT
no it is not Master Qazir...we work very hard that it not be turned into that kind of home...that is why she doesn't understand the whole turn that You have taken the discussion into
Lita, Physician 20:53:45 pm CDT
NO, Qazir. GS is about as close to Book Gor as you can get these days. "Disney Gor" is what You espouse. Introducing things that are not by-the-book. Like the Vampire thing I mentioned. And all the other Non-Book things done in most Gorean Homes these days.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:54:57 pm CDT
My Jarl gains intense enjoyment in hearing flicka scream with pleasure, sob with abandon in orgasms that He has created and which He controls.
natira{GS} 20:55:06 pm CDT
Gs is very much a by the book Home ~smiles~ is why natira loves her home deeply and has been here for so long
Qazir 20:55:35 pm CDT
OH thanks for clearing that point for me Lita because the Disney part meant something different in my mind
Lita, Physician 20:56:17 pm CDT
What exactly does the term "Disney Gor" mean to you Qazir, just out of curiosity?
Qazir 20:59:51 pm CDT
when i hear the term disney its like a wonderful world we kick out the reality and logic of life and the harsh truths in life ... to have a more flowing peace in Gor
Qazir 21:00:48 pm CDT
that is why I asked to verify
Dak 21:02:02 pm CDT
Disney is make believe, Gor is based on a series of books and supposedly adhered to as close as possible in a roleplay !
shimmer{GS} 21:02:28 pm CDT
smiles when the phrase Disney Gor it is like Disney land all pretend and not any factual or real pheasable truth to it...
Dak 21:02:45 pm CDT
Gor has it's own logic and life to it !
Lita, Physician 21:04:17 pm CDT
Well, to us "Old Folks" Disney Gor means role-play that is more like a Disney Cartoon of Gor than it is like actual Gorean Role-play. Yes, Gor is portrayed as a wonderful world, but it certainly carries a lot of harshness, and a lot of the reality and truths and logic of life as well. Couple of old-time sayings about Gor come to mind. One is Gor is not just, Gor is not Fair. Gor...just...Is." The other is "Gor is harsh" There is more to that one but at the moment I forget the rest. Perhaps Dak will remember.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:04:42 pm CDT
Disney is all happiness, everyone is happy, all princesses and rainbows...Disney Gor is trying to make it like that A real Gorean home is harsh, dangerous, and slave's happiness is not a priority. her obedience is.
Dak 21:05:43 pm CDT
Gor is harsh, but seldom cruel !
Lita, Physician 21:06:39 pm CDT
Ah yes, Dak!
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:08:37 pm CDT
Athenian gor:
Life in Athenian sims shall be strictly by the books. Athenians feel the vocation to teach everyone. Every roleplay is played out after strict rules, variations are not allowed if they can t be similarly quoted. Roleplay is quite self- centred, every roleplayer is definitively the most important person in his/her environment. Behind the athenian veil frequently cruelties are hidden that would not be roleplayed in a sane environment. Generally Athenians have the ‘best intentions’ however miss the fact that there are some hard contradictions in the books to a practical roleplay environment, eg serves more beautiful than in the books are well possible, or that true dominant women exist. However it’s a Gor where kajirae feel well, as can be seen by their numbers.
Spartacian Gor
Life in Spartacian Gor does not really care for the books. Spartacian Goreans say otherwise, but more or less everything is accepted, as spartacian Gor is about battling. Double Black Kill Berserk-Mercs from Hellraiser thunder flash Shadow battles Shadow Blackhand-Dagger of Helldeath MegaDarc Outlaws, women are usually clad in motorbike leathers and spiked boots, Men wear black jeans, black boots and the ultralarge sword and steel reinforced spiked bows on their backs. Kilts and tats are a must- have in spartacian Gor. Outlaws accept female and male fighters, it’s fighting skills and numbers that count. Usually the numbers of kajirae is quite small in these groups as there is not much camp life except capture roleplay or battle preparations.
Evolutionary Gor
The role play model of Evolutionary Gor is based on the theory that after the scrolls of Tarl were written, society evolved. Life in evolutionary Gor is usually less formal and less brutal than Athenian Gor, as some excesses are left out. Evolutionary Gor frequently uses environments that are less described in the books, like the southern jungles of Gor or the northern fringes. In contrast to spartacian Gor there is usually less warfare, in contrast to athenian Gor there is usually less brutality and less self- centeredness. The number of kajirae is medium high as the environment is often less strict and battle occurs frequently.
Lifestyle Gor
Like Athenian gor, lifestyle Gor has the best intentions: Lifestyle Gor intends to be an environment that is very gorean, but strictly consensual. The drawback of Lifestyle gor is its denial of enforced behaviour. Gorean society IS nonconsensual in its layout, as it is enforced by male dominance, cities and castes. Lifestyle Gor tries to overcome this drawback by laying out strict rules. However the vibrating strong imbalance of Gor, strong men, the power of cities and of castes, the helplessness of kajirae is somewhat lost in lifestyle Gor. Male dominance is usually entirely lost. However lifestyle Gor frequently encompasses many roleplay aspects like collaring or branding. The number of kajirae is usually very high as no battle occurs and there is a strict set of rules to stick to. Lifestyle Gor is frequently but not always led by FW or kajirae.
none of these groups really exists in its truest form, most groups are more or less this or that.
now we can answer the question: what is Disney Gor?
every group sees all the other groups as Disney. Therefore most goreans are Disney goreans, seen from any others view.
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:09:08 pm CDT
lita 4 didferent disney gor
Qazir 21:09:54 pm CDT
see me and mine fashoned the term pussy gor that is a softer side of gore like your describing ... and most of what I have scene in these Gorean sites
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:10:06 pm CDT
~laughing softly~ A little like Trotskyists Master Kazar, only the group to which You belong are the True Believers.
Dak 21:10:24 pm CDT
if there is no more on the topic, *smiles* I will close the Forum, and those who wish to stay and discuss, may, I thank all for coming and participating in a lively forum,
thanks flicka for scribing
Qazir 21:11:06 pm CDT
thanks everyone
licka-slave of Keeper 21:11:13 pm CDT
thank You Master Dak.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:12:23 pm CDT
Thank You for leading the forum Master Dak
thank you for scribing flicka
Qazir 21:13:27 pm CDT
yes thank you Dak