Present:
Dak
Thorrn
Kazar
Bretval
Sheadon
Lita
snowrose
lilith
natira
hulya
flicka
marieve
Dak 19:41:53 pm CDT
I will open the forum, same rules, keep chitchat and greetings to whispers , here is the first topic,
My way or the highway, is that Gorean?
Is individual thinking a lost art in Gorean roleplay?
How do you get beyond the "falsehoods of the fantasy we create here" and the "truth of life"?
Have a favourite quote about Gorean philosophy/culture?
Today's Topic Interpretation of this quote: "Culture decides what is truth, but truth, unfortunately for culture, is unaware of this. Cultures, mad and blind, can die upon the rocks of truth. Why can truth not be the foundation of culture, rather than its nemesis? Can one not build upon the stone cliffs of reality rather than dash ones head against them? But how few human beings can think, how few dare to inquire, how few can honestly question. How can one know the answer to a question which one fears to ask?" Explorers of Gor
Quotes For This Week 116 -- Herd Instinct -- Wherever we encounter a morality, we find evaluation and ranking of human drives and actions. These evaluations and rankings are always the expression of the needs of a community and herd: that which benefits it the most -- and second most, and third most -- is also the highest standard of value for all individuals. With morality the individual is instructed to be a function of the herd and to ascribe value to himself only as a function. Since the conditions for preserving one community have been very different from those of another community, there have been very different moralities; and in view of essential changes in herds and communities, states and societies that are yet to come, one can prophesy that there will yet be very divergent moralities. Morality is the herd-instinct in the individual.
Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science -- Book Three
But the Goreans have a saying, which came to me in the darkness, in the hall, "Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live; they cannot tell you; they do not have tongues; do not ask the wise man how to live, for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you; if you would learn how to live, do not ask the question; its answer is not in the question but in the answer, which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so." ~ {Marauders of Gor - 9}
Ramses 19:48:10 pm CDT
ok, I will be honest I am struggling a bit with this topic
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:49:22 pm CDT
so is snowrose Master
Dak 19:49:06 pm CDT
aye, it is bit long, *smiles*
Lita, Physician 19:49:42 pm CDT
What is it tht bothews You about it, Ramses?
Dak 19:50:25 pm CDT
I think the question here is, are we a herd , or are we individuals
Lita, Physician 19:50:32 pm CDT
If it helps, just ignore the quotes and concentrate on the questions.
flicka, slave of Keeper. 19:50:33 pm CDT
~gulping a little, hating being first~. The herd-instinct is a survival trait in prey animals, but humans are predators, so not following the herd is what makes us evolve.
By not following "accepted" morality Goreans are evolving, or so this girl thinks.
Lita, Physician 19:51:01 pm CDT
good way of boiling it down, Dak
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:51:50 pm CDT
Dak ~~~ my way or the highways ~~~ differences betwen bdsm and gor `~`~ ~~~~think thats what you're getting at ?/
Lita, Physician 19:53:01 pm CDT
good point, flicka. And I think you are right, though many may be uncomfortable with the thought of humans as predators. But, in reality we are.
Bretval, Merchant 19:53:05 pm CDT
Both... culture serves as the backgroung, the individual what culture elements to integrate in his own life.. and what elements to create for himself
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:53:46 pm CDT
is is just the quote about culture that is the topic, or each individual question?
Ramses 19:54:09 pm CDT
I've never felt as though I was part of a herd and most of those I know here have been individuals bringing their own sets of strengths, biases, interpretations
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:54:54 pm CDT
always evolving if not
Lita, Physician 19:55:01 pm CDT
actually, each individual question, snowrose. I think the quotes were given to kind of "support " the topic, if you will
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:55:11 pm CDT
we become stagnant ~~~~
Dak 19:55:40 pm CDT
I kinda feel that way also , Ramses, I know I am actually a different kind of Gorean
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:56:15 pm CDT
Because she totally disagrees with that first quote...very simplistic, and patronizing
Lita, Physician 19:56:27 pm CDT
I liked one of the answers to the first question tht I saw on the forum I borrowed this from:
"There are no options of the "highway" in Gor. It is only one way and it is the wishes of the Free. A slave knows that when she takes on the roll of a slave there is no optionon how things will go for her. Any man that lets a slave lead him around by his cock or balls needs to do a self evaluation and figure out if he is a Free Man at all or a thrall playing the roll of a Gorean Man. I really do not care if it offends when I state that fact because a real man would not let any female lead him by his sack and if he is able to have it done to him then he is no Master but rather a submissive to allow such a thing." Awfuly strong, but true
natira{GS} 19:57:15 pm CDT
natira does not consider herself part of a herd, she may be a slave but she is very much an individual
Bretval, Merchant 19:57:47 pm CDT
So accepting a Gorean way way you accept a Gorean culture
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:58:04 pm CDT
girl agrees with that one Mistress
hulya{GS} 19:58:36 pm CDT
That sounds very true Mistress
Ramses 19:59:48 pm CDT
Dak, I understand what you mean
we all bring something slightly different
BUT are forced to mold it slightly to the constraints of Goren culture to be accepted
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:00:47 pm CDT
snowrose thinks the slaves here are nothing if not individuals
Lita, Physician 20:01:13 pm CDT
Agreed Ramses
Dak 20:01:14 pm CDT
aye, true, there are some things in Gor you still must folow, but maintain your individuality
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:02:41 pm CDT
Dak aye
Ramses 20:02:56 pm CDT
to Me that is the role culture will always play
we all need to be accepted
no acceptance within a culture means no survival
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:02:58 pm CDT
it is interesting that possibly the last sexual taboo is BDsm, and Gorean sexuality is that and more, and so by being Gorean we are marching to a different drum. And yet when we enter into a Gorean Society we have in some ways to follow a rigid social structure, this is at odds with the kind of person that we were to begin with, ie different drummers. A dichotomy for this girl.
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:04:06 pm CDT
flicka aye gorean lifestyle is different than bdsm ~`~ two life styles dont get along
Lita, Physician 20:05:27 pm CDT
Is that not more or less true of any culture or society flicka?
Lita, Physician 20:06:39 pm CDT
Our own earthen society, supposedly one of the most free in existance. is becoming more and more rigidly controlled by "Political Correctness".
Dak 20:07:23 pm CDT
aye, that is a fact, Lady
hulya(GS) 20:07:43 pm CDT
Which really stinks Mistress
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:08:05 pm CDT
but we all come here willingly, knowing that we're expected to be part of a Gorean culture...those who don't like it are free to leave...so to her it's kind of a moot point...but we're not robots...we all have very distinct personalities,
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:08:22 pm CDT
exactly a girl's point mistress.
Bretval, Merchant 20:09:14 pm CDT
go too far and the fall follows
Dak 20:09:22 pm CDT
now that would be My way or the hiway, *smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:11:59 pm CDT
yes, and no, hulya. "political correctness" is an attempt to make sure everyone is treated equally, or where there is a need, given special help and consideration so that all are on an equal playing field. However we Americans, as we do with nearly everything, have carried those attempts to unreasonable and sometimes laughable extremes.
Dak 20:13:31 pm CDT
it would be a very boring society and life, if all were equal
hulya(GS) 20:13:43 pm CDT
Yes Mistress
Bretval, Merchant 20:16:05 pm CDT
the extreme end is trying to make individuals all equal... they should be equal under the law... but individuals are limited by their own abilities
Bretval, Merchant 20:16:54 pm CDT
hence it would never be boring
Bretval, Merchant 20:18:27 pm CDT
unless of course we are only allowed to be as good as the lowest in a society
Lita, Physician 20:19:15 pm CDT
Up to a point, Bretval. On then other hand, I still resent the fact that I lost a perfectly good job because I fell and broke my leg and was on a walker, and could not get up the steps to enter the building where I worked, and there was no ramp or elevator. I had a desk job, so could have fulfilled all my duties the same as before, but I couldn't get into the building.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:19:50 pm CDT
individuals have different skills
How shocking to admit this in todays culture of all ARE equal, not equal righted but indeed equal and nothing counts more than the average
hulya(GS) 20:21:48 pm CDT
And also different personalities Jarl
Dak 20:23:22 pm CDT
does anyone have more for this topic?
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:23:25 pm CDT
Lita by law has to be handicap accessible
Bretval, Merchant 20:23:48 pm CDT
that is why the equality comes in... no should be limited by something as insignificant as not being able to enter a building that is not just unfair it is stupid... fix the building not the people
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:24:42 pm CDT
I´m sorry to hear that Lita and think that would not be possible here, to be fired for such a handicap.
The company would have to care for a ramp or such to let the employeee come into the building, if this would be possible at all
Dak 20:25:01 pm CDT
well, I for a time navigated stairs with crutches out of necessity
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:25:47 pm CDT
Dak have done that ~~also
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:26:17 pm CDT
true hulya
different skills, different personalities, different needs and desires
We should all be equally righted but not shaped by a big razor into an equal form
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:27:43 pm CDT
am pretty sure it's not legal here either...a leg heals...they shuld hire a sub until the worker can come back
hulya(GS) 20:29:20 pm CDT
girl agrees with you mistress whole heartedly
Lita, Physician 20:29:38 pm CDT
Kazar, the City Attorney maintained that it was on the list of historic buildings, and could not be altered, and was "grandfathered out" of the requirements. It's possible I could have sued the City, and maybe won, but the City is practically bankrupt, as are many small towns these days, so it would have done no good. Especially as my injury did not occur at work. They also claimed there was not enough money for the alteratiosn if they did them, as there would not only have had to be a ramp, but they would have had to widen the doorways, make the bathrooms handicap accessible, and install an elevator to the second floor.
their plans now are to cease to use the building as offices, and move their offices to another building.
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:30:47 pm CDT
Lita knows that
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:31:38 pm CDT
still on the hook for wrongful termination...they give maternity leave and make do...don't see a difference
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:32:18 pm CDT
That sounds like some bead incidents for You Lita
Sometimes there is no real solution even when one is right
Life can be mean, sometimes
Lita, Physician 20:32:25 pm CDT
Dak, my leg was broken in 3 places, and because I am diabetic, they could not do surgery and put pins in. As they wished me not to put any weight on the leg, they put me on a walker rather than crutches. More sturdy and I was less likely to fall.
Dak 20:34:52 pm CDT
I was on a rollabout most of the time, but occasionally I had to use crutches
Lita, Physician 20:35:30 pm CDT
they did not "terminate" me snow. I was working through a charitable agency which was administering a state-paid program to provide jobs for seniors. What they did was find me another job, but that took a while., and as there were no benefits to the jobs, I got no compensation for the time I was off.
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:36:20 pm CDT
Lita no workmans comp
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:36:58 pm CDT
oh girl is sorry Mistress..she thought You were fired ..jobless..
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:39:07 pm CDT
No benefits with a job
Still a strange idea to Me ... but i don´t suggest the next elections in the USA as the next forum topic *grin*
Dak 20:39:08 pm CDT
we are kinda getting off topic, I have another one, if any are interested
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:40:33 pm CDT
~listens to Master Dak`
Lita, Physician 20:41:17 pm CDT
No, snow, I was not fired, but I was jobless for about a month. And the only reason I was placed then was that one of the places I had worked for before under that program hear I was off, and called the agency and asked if they could have me back. I am still there, now working under a "Disability waiver". *chuckle* Gotta love government programs. Each year I have to sign a statement that I am physically able to work, then get my Dr. to sign a paper saying that due to my medical conditions, I am not likely to get hired by another employer! go figure!
Dak 20:41:23 pm CDT
would like to see what Others think makes a Master. A girl knows there is no definitive answer to that question. But she would like to see what divergent ideas others have.
Lita, Physician 20:42:01 pm CDT
Sorry about getting sidetracked, Dak
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:43:58 pm CDT
*L* A great statement, Lita
You are able to work but not so able that an employer will hire you.
I love beauraucracy (whatever this word is spelled correctly)
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:44:40 pm CDT
self confidence..self mastery..the strength of His convictions..honor
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:46:37 pm CDT
self control, an ability to laugh.
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:47:42 pm CDT
~laughing~ handsome, sexy, yummy, strong, careful, Bearish.
marieve{GS} 20:47:55 pm CDT
integrity, wisdom, ability to make one want to be His slave
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:48:11 pm CDT
flicka grins you describing me grins
Dak 20:49:14 pm CDT
if a person has not Matered themselves, it's not likely they will make a good Master
marieve{GS} 20:49:21 pm CDT
~chuckling~ wondering what bearish attributes Jarl Keeper has?
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:50:00 pm CDT
listens to the slave´s definitons and explanations of what makes a Master
very good ideas the girls have, as i think
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:50:59 pm CDT
marieve
I believe Jarl Keeper has some fine furs, like the bears *g*
hulya(GS) 20:51:38 pm CDT
Confidence, wisdom, strength of character, and self mastery
marieve{GS} 20:52:21 pm CDT
making note of preference of bear skin furs
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:52:51 pm CDT
Master Dak, that is what all we girls are looking for, a girl thinks, it flows from the Master, we can submit all we want, but if it is to a Pseudo wannabee it is all a bagatelle, hall of smoke and mirrors.
~whispers~ marieve He roars like a bear at certain times. ~chuckles~
marieve{GS} 20:53:47 pm CDT
~laughing, jade eyes widening~
good to know, flicka!
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:53:51 pm CDT
He's a mauler?
Dak 20:56:22 pm CDT
who decides if a Master has all of these atributes?
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:56:57 pm CDT
A Master ... someone who will guide a girl in her need to submit and let her feel that she is accepted as a slave, not as a Free Companion. Because He feels like a Master, on His way to perfect His skills and His knowledge about being a master and takes His slave with Him on her way to be a perefect slave.
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:58:26 pm CDT
~holding her hand up high~
Master Dak, this slave knows One Master Who is all these things. ~little smile~ it is Jarl Keeper. Not that this girl is biased in any way, but He is all the things that have been mentioned.
Dak 20:58:51 pm CDT
ok, *smiles*
Bretval, Merchant 21:01:06 pm CDT
The slave in the end... if the Master cannot supply what she needs... she will find another Master
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:02:01 pm CDT
Who decides if one is a MAster and a girl is a slave?
That is done by many things and persons who, like flicka said, know a Master when they see one, resp they know one who is on the way to be a MAster because like the slaves have to go through a learning process with all the colours of the silks also Masters are seldome born right that way, at least not in perfection.
Masters too have to learn even when they have a natural atitude to be a MAster
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:02:33 pm CDT
guess each girl decides..snow's Master is the ultimate Master..strong, confident, powerful, kind at times, harsh and unrelenting when she has failed Him. and sexy as all getout
marieve{GS} 21:03:24 pm CDT
very true, Master Bretval.. a kajira needs to spend time with a Master to determine whether a Master has those attributes that appeal to a slaves heart
lilith {GS} 21:03:44 pm CDT
well said Jarl Thorrn. a girl agrees whole heartedly...
*nods golden curly topped head firmly*
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:03:50 pm CDT
I agree with Thorrn
flicka, slave of Keeper. 21:04:18 pm CDT
~smiles at mistress snowrose~ exactly, it is as Master Bretval says we decide in many ways, The Masters we look to are the ultimate Master.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:05:01 pm CDT
In principle i agree Bretval but there is more between a Master and His slave. It is not just that He is MAster and she is slave, there is also a special connection and bondage between them if she is His slave. If that doesn´t work betwene the Ttwo the slave can wish for another Master though both are what they are, a Master and a slave
hulya(GS) 21:05:03 pm CDT
Very true flicka
lilith {GS} 21:06:21 pm CDT
marieve a girl agrees with you but at the same time if the Master wishes to own that s
flicka, slave of Keeper. 21:07:49 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn You are so right, Masters are not born perfect but They do have to have it in Them, a girl is sure that the best Masters here were not as perfect when They first excerised their Mastery as They are now.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:08:45 pm CDT
nods to lilith I agree fully... Master picks the slave not the slave picks the Master...
Bretval, Merchant 21:08:55 pm CDT
No argument on that Thorrn... but if the Master is not what the slave requires, heart and soul, then despite being a slave she will find a Master more to her liking
lilith {GS} 21:10:08 pm CDT
yes Master Sheadon but at the same time if the Master does not wish to fight with the slave to comply He may in the end sell her or kill her, do with her as He sees fit...but in the end girl thinks it is the Master that has the say
marieve{GS} 21:10:16 pm CDT
aye, lilith. which is why it is not wise to not rush into a personal collar
Dak 21:11:07 pm CDT
well, it is time to close the forum, is there anything else to add ?
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:11:35 pm CDT
smiles at my slave
she added some attitudes not being mentioned yet, after all those nice and cheery attitudes something came in like harsh and unrelenting
Not to forget those, some slaves at least soemtimes like to be treated harshly, unfair, a bit cruel or brutal.
Why, i guess because this shows them more that they submitted to a strong Man and master who will do what He wishes to do and that makes a slave become very thrilled and excited, this Male power and harshness and they being the helpless victim
lilith {GS} 21:12:10 pm CDT
exactly marieve!....something quite a few girls can not seem to get through their thick heads!....*giggling*
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:12:25 pm CDT
yes lilith but that is up to the Master NOT the slave the slave can try to push a Master to killing or selling of her but that about it really
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:12:46 pm CDT
At least here in online Gor it will be that way, Bretvale
Both must have their needs be satisfied or the relationship will break
flicka, slave of Keeper. 21:12:46 pm CDT
lilith a girl is not sure she agrees, maybe initially a Master will demand a slave take His collar, but if They are not, hmm seeking the word, suited?, happy together? Je ne sais pas. Then the Master /slave relationship will not last. Either the girl will beg out of thew collar or the Master will discard the girl.
Bretval, Merchant 21:12:54 pm CDT
But if she in time is not satisfied a Master... she will not stay
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:13:16 pm CDT
~whispers~ yes my Master....You know her so well
lilith {GS} 21:13:20 pm CDT
oooops...girl begs forgiveness Master Sheadon....in her excitement and emotional state of the conversation she forgot herself
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:14:13 pm CDT
well take it up after in the tavern
lilith
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:14:34 pm CDT
In the gorean books it is often that a slave begs the MAster to use the whip on her
Not because she is from BDSM and loves to feel the pain but because she wnats to feels the power of her Master put on His slave and she knows her place the better, and that needs some refreshment from time to time
flicka, slave of Keeper. 21:15:22 pm CDT
~nods at Jarl Thorrn's words~
lilith {GS} 21:16:06 pm CDT
exactly flicka!...either way in the end if the Master does not wish to release her from His collar there is not much she can do but attempt to run away...
Dak 21:17:01 pm CDT
ok, I guessi might as well close the forum for this week, thanks all for coming and for the lively conversation ,
thanks snowrose for scribing
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:17:23 pm CDT
whispers to Sheadon a little secret about male-female relationship
Masters pick the slave ... in more than 3 of 4 quarters it is the woman who picks the male, in rt life
and as in this way online gor is much like rt life, make a guess
flicka, slave of Keeper. 21:17:33 pm CDT
lilith it is as marieve says, better to not rush in to a personal collar, seldom will a Master force His collar on an unwilling girl, what is in it for Him?