GS VIEW ON SLAVE'S DEATH
Xertog 19:48:44 CST
This was sent to as a topic:
this doesn't haven't anything to do with GS but in JAG a slave killed
herself, it might be interesting to find out how those of GS view a slave
taking her own life?
I think it could include anybody Free or slave .
The rest of the forum is yours Rollo 'smiles'
akeria_{Orion} 19:49:24 CST
a slave does not own her life..how can she take it..a slave is nothing more
than property..
Ramses 19:50:53 CST
I know of at least one from GS who did this .. about 18 months ago ... I
can't recall her name
wynter_kiss~ 19:51:13 CST
If a slave is totally unhappy in the steel that she wears, whether she
shelfs or kills her char..she's still going to be slammed, as seen over at
JAG...BUT then again, why would a Man or Woman wish to keep an unhappy slave
in steel?
Marie 19:51:58 CST
no, she doesn't own her life, but obviously, she can take that life...
though I can't imagine being that damn miserable..just turn off the
computer!
Jake_Musician 19:52:31 CST
she may have had no choice..begged release and was not granted it...was that
or be sworn in as a runaway?
akeria_{Orion} 19:52:52 CST
if she wishes to kill the character then beg her Master to do it..for He is
the One who owns her..
Xertog 19:53:12 CST
Role played suicides bothers me because RT suicide brothers me. Life is a
precious thing and should be treated as such. Not like a reset button on
video game
Rollo_the_Ax 19:53:22 CST
okay... * taking your own life.... VT, RT, or where ever... ** and then, how
does it relate to GS ??? sound like clear enough boundries for our purposes
?????
Deirdre 19:53:36 CST
*nodding in agreement with Marie*
Exactly Lady.......that's a "no brainer".....
Ramses 19:53:46 CST
I have to agree with you Marie
Marie 19:53:59 CST
and then come back as a different character akeria?
tayla 19:54:00 CST
while i agree a slave shouldn't kill herself i can understand the desire to
at times.. probably because i did it once when i got myself into a situation
i couldn't find a way out of.. i regreted it but at the time it seemed liked
my only way out
akeria_{Orion} 19:54:56 CST
Mistress Marie..no..akeria doesn't believe in this dying then coming back as
another character...if a person dies..then they should stay dead
Marie 19:55:18 CST
I agree with that akeria...though, that happens more often than not
Jake_Musician 19:55:35 CST
well on the concept of it being a rt life..I would agree there is help
available...but in vt..nods get away from the puter
Ramses 19:55:44 CST
Marie, I know that in the case of the one I am recalling, she never came
back
akeria_{Orion} 19:55:57 CST
move on or whatever..but all this slave killing slaves and FW having babies
and other stuff is nothing more than a soap opera and akeria just doesn't
think it should be a part of Gor
akeria_{Orion} 19:56:28 CST
Mistress Marie...aye..akeria has seen way too much of it..
tayla 19:56:37 CST
if a slave belonged to a patron of GS and she was simply miserable or just
lost her desire to rp and she tried begging release only to be told no for
whatever reason could she come to the GS Council for help?
Marie 19:57:29 CST
no, she can't tayla,..that's been tried and failed
~wynter_kiss~ 19:57:32 CST
And yet..not taking a side, but throwing the other perspective into it...FW
having children..was how more Free came about, remembering that the ratio of
FW to slaves...is vastly different here in the VT than in the books
Rollo_the_Ax 19:57:48 CST
In the * Gorean * context, and in the role of a slave... while it may well
be argued that a slave does NOT own their own life, it never the less
would/could/or will be still up to ANY person to decide when they have
reached whatever limit THEY see as unwilling to go past... a slave would
have to be chained 24/7 to be made unable to take their own life if they had
decided that they wanted DEATH but was not allowed it by their owner.....
tayla 19:58:27 CST
akeria nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes.. and sometimes in our
confusion and what not we do stupid crap but doesn't give anybody else the
right to judge us
akeria_{Orion} 19:58:55 CST
tayla..akeria is not judging anyone..for yes Aall do make mistakes..
bahi{RD} 19:59:48 CST
but in saying that and not allowing an opportunity for a person to overcome
a mistake by beig allowed to return as a different persona.. isn't that not
only judging but also imposing a sentence ?
tayla 20:00:02 CST
Mistress Marie oh, that's kinda sad
then what recourse is really left a slave other than to just leave?
tayla 20:00:02 CST
Mistress Marie oh, that's kinda sad
then what recourse is really left a slave other than to just leave?
akeria_{Orion} 20:00:38 CST
no akeria does not believe so..seen too many people pull stunts, then leave
and come back as another person only to do the same thing over and
over..when it is enough?
bahi{RD} 20:01:07 CST
when the deciders of that paricular home or forum decide it's enough?
tayla 20:02:32 CST
akeria depends on why the person left.. if they leave because of rt or the
lose of desire to rp or anything along those lins then there is no enough.
they have every right to come back either as the old them or a new them
Marie 20:02:49 CST
grin and bear it tayla..*chuckling* or shut off the
computer...*shrugs*..it's a tough one
akeria_{Orion} 20:03:16 CST
tayla...to each their own then..
Rollo_the_Ax 20:03:47 CST
The way that many see the VT realm is not like they see the REAL world...
everything here is more a * game * to them .... so hence, the * bang your
dead.. okay, alive again as a new guy ... * mentality.... like children play
cowboys and indians or war..... the level or degree of commitment of each
person is simply the point in question here...... is it a GAME, or is it
worthy of REAL feelings and actions... ????
Rollo_the_Ax 20:06:10 CST
But bahi... that is exactly what EVERY society does... imposes its OWN will
or level of acceptence on ALL those that live within its realm of
control.....
bahi{RD} 20:08:15 CST
well Mastr Rollo.. in real life we all make mistakes.. do thinks we normally
wouldn't do and it would be sad if those we called friends or family were so
damning they couldn't see their way to realize there may have been other
influences at work.. i don't walk on water and certainly would hope i would
be given a second chance if i were to make a mistake
am thinking to a friend that kiled herself off in Gor with the intent to
never return after her Master had released her (they had been together for
years and it was out of the blue.. he was gettig married rt and had never
mentioned it) she decided after she had healed some she wanted to come back
tayla 20:08:18 CST
Master Rollo i can't speak for the Free but i know for many slaves after
being hurt enough times it becomes more difficult to let the emotions enter
the rp because they feel a need to protect themselves
leda{Ak} 20:08:54 CST
leda does not like dying either, she will fight tooth and nail not to die
that is for sure, she will never take her life either and feels sorry for
those who do as part of being a slave to leda is to deal with the
consiquences of their mistakes and so be punished and learn from it ... but
leda will never judge one who might of made a mistake in their ROLES and
cannot see a way out of it and want to start over ,,,so be it who are we to
decide this for others !!!
Orion 20:09:15 CST
-listens- tayla, for ANYONE to just "cyber-suicide" is a waste of the ones
involved with then and onyone who cares about them's time. It is a bs way
for a slave to get out of a kolar or a Free Person to try and get out of a
hard situation they find themselves in. GOD knows I have had my share of
shit happen but the one thing I have ALWAYS stayed true to is the fact that
I am ORION, good or bad. It is who I am when I get up in the morning and who
I am when I hit the sack at night. If I find things are a lil rough and I
need to take a step back, I let those I am involved with know and deal with
it. I have over come everything from losing a daughter in R/T, to the
several surgies and near deaths of my R/T FC, to the birth of our lil Jarl,
to my OWN recent surgery. but NEVER did I feel the need to just KILL myself
off to leave and worry about coming back later. I agree with Marie and the
others, if ya can't take the heat or deal with the problem; turn off the PC
cause there is no one putting a gun to your head and telling you to log in.
bahi{RD} 20:09:54 CST
i agree Master Rollo.. but within those ruleds and the imposition of thre is
usually a sense of compassion at the foundation.. at least to a degree.. and
this is a permanent action.. not a penalty one which can't be overcome we're
talking abut here
Rollo_the_Ax 20:10:32 CST
Most of those here are bound by the Jewdaio/Christian teachings and as such,
are against the concept of taking your own life..... we allow ourselves to *
buy into * the old beliefs and social bounderies.....
Elektra_Free_Woman 20:11:29 CST
What is culturally acceptable by some are not for others.
~*said quietly*~
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:12:39 CST
well knowing silks sees dying rt totally different then most here.......
Orion 20:14:14 CST
I am saying that you do not have to off yourself online to deal with bad
situations. Simply turn off the puter and find something else to free your
mind. I have seen girls that stay logged in for DAYS and wonder "WHY am I so
burnt out??" hello.. take a break and get back to reality.
bahi{RD} 20:15:00 CST
Is that saying GS is bound by those particular religious attitudes?
Loki 20:16:04 CST
~nods to Orion's words~
tayla 20:17:02 CST
Master Orion and if the slave does take a break, comes back and still is
unhappy for whatever reason? if she can't her owner to help her, release her
or whatever what should she do? just shelf the persona and start over? that
seems wrong too
akeria_{Orion} 20:18:18 CST
if the person is still unhappy after coming back from a break..maybe they
need to take a look at whether they should be in role playing at all
Rollo_the_Ax 20:18:36 CST
HEY, folks... maybe I have not made MY point clearly... or maybe I might see
things a bit * different ....
Suicide in RT, for bullshit reasons... depression, mental illness, poor
judgement.. is VERY WRONG !!!!!! BUT, under the RIGHT conditions or
reasons.... why should an arbitray society rule stop any person fron ending
their OWN life ????
akeria_{Orion} 20:20:24 CST
if role playing is making someone unhappy, then leave it alone..a new
character is not going to make a difference
Orion 20:20:47 CST
Then she needs to figure out where the problem is. GOD knows I have had rp
with girls that no matter WHAT the situatrion, it was best in the end for
THEM to release them or help them find another Master. If there is a serious
problem between the slave and her Master, then they REALLY need to sit down
and talk about it as R/T people and NOT V/T Goreans. -looks to the girls he
has had that are here- And in the END. they will have a MUCH better
relationship, tayla, then if they were forced to live out such a miserable
life together.
bahi{RD} 20:21:00 CST
but.. this isn't RT
aurora{Ulrich}-t 20:21:12 CST
how can people be so judgemental?
walk a mile in someone's shoes....
kelsey{HoT} 20:21:19 CST
I believe the laws are put against suicide to make it extra clear to those
who need it in print, that is is wrong. Have you considered the pain and
cost that one person selfishly taking their own life causes their family?
Their friends? It is in my opinion very cowardly and petty a thing to do.
Why should they be allowed out of life so easily and without the best sort
of safeguards society can put into place? *Gee..can you tell it's a touchy
subject lol*
bahi{RD} 20:22:11 CST
those laws aren't in place in all societies though kelsey
tayla 20:22:15 CST
maybe it just the current situation of the rp making the person unhappy..
too much fighting in the home, too much back biting and what not
could be the person might be happy elsewhere in rp
~shrug~
just throwing out thoughts
Zoran 20:23:01 CST
agrees with aruroa is hard to judge
as I think each sitation is diffrent and in some case one might fill trap
with no way out looks to the opther Master
hell you know well all can be blinded with are ego lol
tayla 20:23:54 CST
too bad for slaves all Masters don't think you do Master Orion
kelsey{HoT} 20:24:01 CST
As far as rp is concerned, since I seem to be the black sheep...er..hurtish
type? A clean ending is sometimes the best and clearest way to clear up an
unwanted roleplay line, though I agree with those who have said just to
leave it all together if it gets to that point, but there is always a
reason. *hushes and goes back to chewing my cud*
Marie 20:24:18 CST
*sitting back a bit, trying not to squish bahi*
I think we've crossed over from RP to RT here..
Laroona 20:24:25 CST
reads the topic and poNders
RT is different than VT
BUT I seen too many VT people (aka Masters) decree every breath their slave
makes.. is it right IMO NO
there is such a thing as free will... we all enter at frEe will we leave at
free will, we turn the PC on at free will.. but damned if I will permit
anyone VT to run MY RT life
as for taking my VT life well that is my decision ad mine alone
RT is different
Rollo_the_Ax 20:24:34 CST
EXACTLY, Elekrta and silks..... DEATH is NOT an end but a beginning... or
perhaps just one more step on a path that is set out before each of us.....
the fear of death makes the living of LIFE a lesser action..... yes, death
is forever for THIS lifetime.... but believe Me, I truly believe... No, I
KNOW that there are much worse things than death..... some forms of life are
worse than a clean death......
kelsey{HoT} 20:25:51 CST
Aye bahi, very true. I tend to think oneway sometimes, my apologies for not
being specific.
Laroona 20:25:58 CST
adding and if slaves VT lives are taken then maybe some Free need to loOk at
their actions and own self worth
bahi{RD} 20:28:10 CST
i do too kelsey.. to often.. have just finished doing some research on the
Samurai and it really opened my mind to some concepts and ways of thinking
that set me back some
tayla 20:28:14 CST
i'm sorry but i don't see how some law making suicide illegal is going to
stop someone from killing themselves.. what are they going to put the corpse
in jail? come on
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:28:49 CST
i think i upset someone with my earlier words.....was not my
intention...thus
i believe in reincarnation....rt.....the dead never die....they
return.....is just how i was raised sweety....it is not permanent
i meant nothing bad by silks earlier comment...i meant this is not a
discussion i should participate in....for i see life thru fractured
eyes....like tiny mirrored shards of glass to one day put together to make a
whole person.....takes many lifetimes to do this...
Orion 20:29:45 CST
tayla, THAT is my OWN peronal view and I have had it thrown up into girls
faces that maybe I am not a "strong enogh" Master for some girls. Well I can
say to hell with them because I see the girls I have owned such as aurora,
luscious, and a couple of others; and I see how happy they are and I am
PROUD of my decision to release them so that they might find happiness else
where because as a TRUE Master. our first responsibility is to see that the
well being of our girls is dealt with. Albeit the MENTAL as well as the
physical. If both are not in a good way then we are truly screwed as a
Master/Jarl and we need to do what we can to fix the situation or we will
lose the girl in the end completly. NOW, if THAT in itself make me a weak
Master, then I say THANK you kindly!! It is me and I will NOT change for
anyone.
Zoran 20:29:58 CST
laws against sucide are like laws agaisnt certian sex
the person going to do it if they feel like it
Laroona 20:30:00 CST
tayla I agree
I also know that there are some laws where a person can be charged for not
preventing a person in RT from suiciding... is it fair no...
buty again that is RT not VT
VT is limited only by the switch of a button
kelsey{HoT} 20:30:59 CST
Aye, interesting bunch they were bahi.
Tayla, lol...I'd like to see that..maybe, though that could be sick...I
think it's just a deterrant, not going to make much of a difference, but
it's about all they can to do stop it. If that makes sense.
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:31:29 CST
i truly meant no disrespect....i do hold life dear...but i do NOT allow this
life to choke me...understand....i am coming back to rectify mistakes...
Rollo_the_Ax 20:33:51 CST
Yes... I admit that I may view death in a slightly different light than many
here.... do I greive for lost family ones... yes, but only in as much as it
is basically a selfish reaction to being refused their company any
longer.... I KNOW in my heart, if not my brain at all times, that their *
life force * ( say soul if that term works for you...) has simply moved on
and will begin a new and hopefully fulfilling journey yet again......
tayla 20:34:01 CST
Master Orion i don't see caring about the person behind the persona as being
weak. i think it takes a lot of strength, time and energy to try and find a
solution to the situation then do what you feel is best in the end. Anyone
who says it is weak is a fuck nut! excuse my french
Laroona 20:34:50 CST
sometimes a vt death is better than anothers vt collar
*shrugs*
Marie 20:34:53 CST
*looking around as the topic of religion is discussed*
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:35:53 CST
oh Master Rollo...i have been shastized for not shedding a tear at a
'funeral' at times....but in my heart i feel their journey has just
begun....
tayla 20:36:03 CST
silks i don't think you were disrepetful.. you're entitled to your believes
just the same as the rest of us
~smile~
Zoran 20:37:17 CST
to not cry at a funral is not a bad thing
I been at many were it is better the person has past as pain had made the
level of life bad
one self is all that needs to know
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:37:49 CST
thank you tayla
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:39:43 CST
i have no more to say on the subject
tayla 20:39:44 CST
~hugs silks~
don't ever let anyone make you feel bad because of your believes.. or
anything else.. live your life the way you want to the best of your
ability.. most importantly be happy
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:40:52 CST
silks rt/vt is a very happy full of joy person....
kelsey{HoT} 20:41:53 CST
*watches the topic get derailed in a big way lol*
Elektra_Free_Woman 20:42:38 CST
~*shakes off a horrendous RT interruption and settles back in*~
While I do not approve of a slave taking her life for whatever reasons, I
know that it happens and frequently on jag.
In RT, my beliefs about death are unconventional and probably unacceptable
for those of you who were raised Christians so I will not speak of them.
Marie 20:44:14 CST
agreeing with Electra
I don't think MY r/t beliefs have any place on Gor, convention or not
Rollo_the_Ax 20:46:43 CST
Perhaps the topic has become too far afield.... in an attempt to answer the
original question or topic..... in GS, EVERY death requires COUNCIL
approval..... be it from a death match fight, or a suicide by ANY person...
so as far as GS goes, the action may or may NOT be approved or condoned.....
what can go on in any other site or room ???? I have NO say in it and can
only allow those in power there to decide..... if JAG allows slaves to kill
themselves, so be it..... if not, also, so be it .....
The_Skullsplitter 20:47:09 CST
If you are going to bring this to a real life debate, then noone is going to
be able to bring an answer to the table which all will whole heartedly agree
with.
There are too many examples of cultures on Earth, societies, religious
beliefs, that you can argue for days. Samurai, suicide bombers, euthenasia,
etc.
For GOR arguement's sake.. and keeping it to GOR alone, the arguement is
much simpler.
The slave has nothing, this means, her life no longer belongs to her, her
Owner, Master decides if she is to die, or live, he grants either, or. So,
in the Gorean sense, the slave should NOT be permitted to act upon this line
of thinking.
In the online context? Well, the old arguement of the "X".. click out and be
done, but how many times can someone do that? Many slaves probably jump
collar all the time using that as the easy way out without actually learning
anything, so Orion probably said it best that you should communicate, and if
need be, release to stop the mingle of RT and VT frustrations/pain,
whatever, otherwise, you will just get someone dualling, and jumping ship.
Zoran 20:50:08 CST
hmm think Rollo answer my question
As I thought of the post on the baord of my old friend undoing
kelsey{HoT} 20:50:50 CST
Jarl, very true and probably unlikely to happen in the books. But is a slave
under supervision every hour of every day? If they have the chance to try
and run, they have the chance to jump in a sleen pen, or whatnot. It is a
realistically ( as far as role play is concerned) plausible scenerio.
However wrong it is, it is up to the individual in my opinion. To some it is
better to end it then to jump collars or whatnot.
The_Skullsplitter 20:52:42 CST
End it, return, end it, return, end it, return, eat, shit and die, eat, shit
and die...
~Shrugs shoulders~
Not My concern, just wanted to derail the whole relgious belief arguement
that seemed to be creeping in.
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:55:02 CST
silks never was n never has been a kolar jumper...silks few Masters shes
had....died rt...
does not mean silks perfect,....oh so far from it...but i am persistant....
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 20:57:04 CST
some think silks in the worst kolar of all ..point is...i not killing myself
......n life has a way of working things out.....
Jake_Musician 20:58:06 CST
simply thinks that if some find Gor so harsh that they need kill
themself..try reality once?
shuts up now
kelsey{HoT} 20:59:22 CST
When Gor is just a game to someone, killing themselves is just an out, a
break without any ties to that said role play. They can just come back the
next day with the life they wanted to role play out.
tayla 21:00:43 CST
i don't think that is always the case though kelsey..
~shrug~
kelsey{HoT} 21:01:16 CST
Nay tayla, not always.
{KUURUS}'silks-RESTRICTED 21:01:28 CST
things work themselves out with communication.....silks so happy she is
where she belongs now!
Rollo_the_Ax 21:04:48 CST
VT, and on-line Gor specifically, has its own set of rules and social
behavior.... there is no LAW in cyber-space ... only limits set by those
that use ( and abuse ) it... shit happens, learn to live with it.....
Rollo_the_Ax 21:15:25 CST
LOL...LOL... Nay, silks... the man that is Rollo has simply seen life in its
many forms over the years... and also seen death up close and personal...
that is what I feel is at the root of this sort of problem.... Tooo many
folks here, on-line, have never met death..looked deep into its eyes, and
seen what looks back..... they have never given death to others... taken a
human life ... for whatever reason..... to them, death is just a GAME !!!! I
have said it before and will do so again.... to truly know what LIFE is, you
must also know what death is... they are both sides of the same coin... and
every time the coin is tossed.... either side may well land face up...... be
willing and able to accept either side with the same relish.....
Orion 21:18:41 CST
I disagree Rollo.. I know that you have seen your share of it yet no matter
it is NEVER easy. Tell that to ME or any other that has held their lifeless
child and say that they have to take life and death with the same relish. It
is not the same. Death is sensless yet it is something that comes and we
have to deal with it in the very REAL world, so why do we have to come
online to get away from that crap and see it in our homes and chat rooms
cause some lil slave has not gotten her way or a Free just wants OUT of a
RP. Death is not something that we should just accept.