Present:
Ramses
Thorrn
Kazar
Dak
Lita
snowrose
shareen
marieve
shimmer
shuri
bria
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:49:04 pm CST
I am sorry to say, that I cannot stay tonight. Thorrn will lead Forum so send him any topics that you might have...
I will stay a few ehn then I have to go....
it was good to see everyone
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 19:54:19 pm CST
Master Sandmman has said the next few weeks will still be every busy for Him, but after that hopes to be here more
Lita, Physician 19:58:16 pm CST
bria, I have a question for you. I see that you have no collar, and call yourself a she-urt. Yet she-urts are Free Women down on their luck, so if you are truly free, shouldn't your name be capitalized?
bria 19:59:29 pm CST
*settles back into her corner* better?
Lita, Physician 20:00:15 pm CST
yes, bria, thank you.
Dak 20:00:44 pm CST
when I came to GS, they had a she-urt named ariel
Lita, Physician 20:02:13 pm CST
Dak, according to the books, a she~urt is a Free Woman. If You recall Katrina she-urt, who resided here briefly recently, She was a Free Woman
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:03:32 pm CST
*Grins hearing Master Dak* Well it seems we have learned of late that using she-urt in that capacity is not correct. This did not know before last forums either. *laughs*
Ramses 20:04:37 pm CST
is it a capitalized name that makes one free?
Dak 20:05:24 pm CST
yeah, I know according to the books, but really she-urts are almost slaves anyway, unkolared
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:05:40 pm CST
a She Urt should cap her name Master Ramses...it's a contradiction in terms for a slave to have she urt after her name...no such animal
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:06:00 pm CST
Lita, it is like so often in Port Kar.
Things can be this way and they can be that way.
ariel has bene a slave she-urt for many years, Katrina has been a FW she-urt.
I´m not sure at the moment what the books say about that but what i rememebr is that she-urts a Free Women of low social status and in permanent danger to be enslaved.
20:06:23 pm CST
also, in much of Gor a Free Woman is a slave in waiting !
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:07:44 pm CST
*laughs hearing Master Ramses.* Well as an online designation upper and lower cases do help somewhat.....*grins* But of course, behavior should designate more than the whether one's name is capitalized or lowered.
Lita, Physician 20:09:35 pm CST
Jarl Thorrn, here is a description of she~urts from Ubar Luther's essay on Port Kar. There are also some ionteresting comments in the same section on slaves:
She-urts, also known as strays, may appear to be slaves but they are legally free women. These women live as home-less scavengers, begging or even stealing for food or money. They commonly sleep in crates or under bridges and piers. Some of them even form gangs, controlling certain territories. They were short tunics, more appropriate for slaves, but which do not interfere with their ability to flee. These women may have no families to support them or have been ousted from normal society for some other reason. They are considered generally a minor nuisance so little is often done about them. Sometimes the city guards will try to capture a group of them but that is infrequent. These type of women exist in a number of Gorean cities.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:09:37 pm CST
No Ramses
But a Free should captilaze the name to show that He/She is free and not a slave.
That makes it easier for other to know with whom one speaks online.
Lita, Physician 20:10:44 pm CST
Here are the comments on slaves
Slaves who are found displeasing may face the Garbage Death. This is where a kajira is bound, naked, and hurled to the canal urts in the water. It is not uncommon for such urts to feed on people, and not just slaves. The canals are a good place to dispose of dead bodies as the urts will eat much of the evidence. Urt hunters help keep down the urt population in the canals. The books do not specifically state if this is an actual Caste or subcaste. The books only mention urt hunters in Port Kar and this might be because Port Kar is the only known port city that has numerous canals running through it. Urt hunters usually use a pronged urt spear and some type of bait, often a slave girl. The hunter rows out into the canals. A slave girl, who will be used as bait, has a long rope tied around her neck and secured to the bow ring on the boat. The kajira will jump into the water and splash around to attract urts. It is cheaper to use slave girls than a side of tarsk. Live verr are sometimes used as bait but they are not as effective. Urts usually approach their intended prey with their snout and eyes above water. You can thus detect an approaching urt and that should give the slave girl sufficient time to return to the boat before she is attacked. Not all girls are so lucky though. The hunter will then try to spear the urt. Some men will turn their own girls over to a urt hunter for discipline. A few days of being used as bait for urts will almost assuredly make them much more obedient. Eels, of which there are several carnivorous varieties, are another problem in the canals.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:13:08 pm CST
Nods to Lita
That is what i have in mind about she-urts in the books too.
Thanks for posting that summary.
Lita, Physician 20:13:31 pm CST
All I know is what the books say on she~urts. And I am aware there are a lot of things done on-line that are not by the books.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:15:38 pm CST
It would seem she urts are Free Woman who have fallen on hard times, BUT have not been collared as a slave as of yet. Do not think slaves were ever referred to as she urts. The status may put a Free Woman in danger of collaring and becoming a slave, but as a she urt, she is not yet a slave.
shareen{Rm} 20:14:54 pm CST
Has joined the room
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:18:33 pm CST
I think we cleared that she-urt problem for bria to know that she will have to become a garbage eating FW to name herself she-urt.
ariel of Port Kar will remain what she dearly was - a unique kind of slave, and very funny and níce to have known her at her time in here.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:19:33 pm CST
*smiles to Jarl Thorrn and nods her head* Of course......
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:20:41 pm CST
I got a topic whispered and will forward it to the crowd of tonight.
No need to say who delivered this topic, i think we will know from the posting *smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:20:55 pm CST
I have not had the good fortune to meet her, Jarl, though I have heard of her and would have liked to. *soft smile*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:22:53 pm CST
The forum gets officially opened with something to read . . .
Character Thoughts
Quotes For This Week
"I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet." ― Mahatma Gandhi
"The morality of Earth, from the Gorean point of view, is a morality which would be viewed as more appropriate to slaves than free men. It would be seen in terms of the envy and resentment of inferiors for their superiors. It lays great stress on equalities and being humble and being pleasant and avoiding friction and being ingratiating and small. It is a morality in the best interests of slaves, who would be only too eager to be regarded as the equals of others. We are all the same. That is the hope of slaves; that is what it is in their interest to convince others of. The Gorean morality on the other hand is more one of inequalities, based on the assumption that individuals are not the same, but quite different in many ways. It might be said to be, though this is oversimple, a morality of masters. Guilt is almost unknown in Gorean morality, though shame and anger are not. Many Earth moralities encourage resignation and accommodation; Gorean morality is bent more toward conquest and defiance; many Earth moralities encourage tenderness, pity, and gentleness; Gorean morality encourages honor, courage, hardness and strength. To Gorean morality many Earth moralities might ask, "Why so hard?" To these Earth moralities, the Gorean ethos might ask, "Why so soft?" - Marauders of Gor, pg. 8
" When I read great literature, great drama, speeches, or sermons, I feel that the human mind has not achieved anything greater than the ability to share feelings and thoughts through language." - James Earl Jones
"The snake which cannot cast its skin has to die. As well the minds which are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be mind." ― Friedrich Nietzsche
"I, Tarl Cabot, hating myself, no longer respected or trusted human beings. I had done what I had done that day for the sake of a child, one who had once been kind to me, but who no longer existed. I knew myself for one who had chosen ignominious slavery over the freedom of honorable death. I knew myself as coward. I had betrayed my codes. I had tasted humiliation and degradation, and most at my own hands, for I had been most by myself betrayed. I could no longer see myself as I had been. I had been a boy and now I had come to the seeings of manhood, and found within myself, disgusting me, something capable of cowardice, self-indulgence, selfishness, and cruelty. I was no longer worthy of the red of the warrior, no longer worthy of serving the Home Stone of my city, Ko-ro-ba, the Towers of the Morning; it seemed - to me then that there were only winds and strengths, and the motions of bodies, the falling of rain, the movements of bacilli, the beating of hearts and the stopping of such beatings. I found myself alone." - Raiders of Gor, Pg 76
Questions
1) What part do thoughts have in your character's play?
2) How do you expect your thoughts to be handled by others?
3) How do you handle someone who makes pointed, perhaps rude comments in the form of thoughts during play?
4) Should thoughts be acted upon? Why or why not?
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:25:19 pm CST
Lita, i´m afraid arile will not be back , she left a few years ago when her Master vanished literally from one day to the next.
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:28:35 pm CST
Has joined the room
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:29:19 pm CST
Thoughts expressed through writing do help us understand a character better. Some express thoughts so others will essential know their character better......some do not because they think that only their actions should be judged and reacted to no matter what others might think. It is really a preferrence of how one wishes to play their character.
Lita, Physician 20:32:27 pm CST
If I understand correctly, and snow can correct me on this, thoughts expressed during role-play here are treated just as if they were spoken "out loud". Is that right snow?
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:33:11 pm CST
It depends..our feelings do help others to know us, but when it is all about feelings, when our feelings define us, then it's a problem...most especially with slaves who think their every feeling, every perceived slight they have is of interest to One and all
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:33:18 pm CST
That being said......this one does not think that reacting to ones thoughts that are put out there for roleplay purposes should be acted on. We cannot really ever know what someone else is thinking, and reacting to thoughts is inappropriate to this ones thinking.
However, there are times that certain internal reactions and thoughts can be read on someone's face. At that time this one would think it would be okay to react to them. Of course if someone knows another really well, they might pick up on looks, subtle cues, thoughts because they know the other person really really well.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:33:39 pm CST
I´m still thinking about the expose about differences in morals o erath and on Gor and the questions about thoughts, in general and not so much about those differences.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:33:58 pm CST
yes Mastress...we are not permitted to "think" or "wonder" and by that say something inappropriate
marieve ~GS~ 20:34:02 pm CST
Thoughts are very private. One may think what they truly feel. Others only have privy to one’s thoughts if expressed. A girl would clarify the rude comments, seeking answers as the what behavior on her part caused such comment. She would then apologize if she was at fault. If she wasn’t then it is her task to bear the Free’s displeasue. Thoughts should never be acted upon by a kajira. She is likely to get herself into deep trouble if she does.
shimmer 20:35:53 pm CST
girl thought if they are expressed in thoughts it is almost as if it was said.. as if girl said in a post....
her seething anger was full as she wanted to growl at Master Ramses as she knelt before him... but knowing the punishment it would bring she bit her tongue and smiled...
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:37:37 pm CST
Also, it is possible to think one thing, but be might be able to behave in a way that does not show that reaction. A slave may think ill of her Master or her sisters, but her behavior may not exhibit that. In that case, if the person decides to express their thoughts in roleplay, but not act on them, then those around her should treat her by her actions, not her thought. However, it can add to roleplay to still let the reader know what the character is thinking. It might explain actions at a later time. But this one generally only reacts to to what she can see or hear. she would not react to someone's typed thoughts for a character unless she felt she had some reason for knowing them.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:37:40 pm CST
For Me thoughs in a roleplay express what i cna not see online and it gives some kind of feedback to what is going on.
As so often, there is not a stríct it is good or bad to use this, for me it depends how is it done. It is an addition in a way to express what a face or body would show when the person can be seen.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:40:16 pm CST
we can express emotion...but we cannot hide under "thoughts" if it's wrong to say it out loud, it's wrong to "think" it...a criticism of a Free for instance, that a slave knows she should not say. then she should not think it...it's it's out there, it's out there, regardless of the form
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:40:45 pm CST
*Tries to think about what thoughts have to do with morality and honor in roleplay on Gor.*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:40:46 pm CST
shuri
For me a slave who expresses her thoughts makes it clear that she wants the other person in the roleplay to let them know her thoughts.
A slave is allowed to think ill and dmeamningly about a Free, so she will be in trouble when giving such thoughs an excpression, no matter in what way.
marieve ~GS~ 20:42:18 pm CST
~smiling at mistress~ Aye, if one is not in a proper gorean frame of mind, she should not be in chat.
shimmer 20:42:23 pm CST
slips out to r/t that is biting her ass wishing well to all...
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:44:58 pm CST
very true My snowrose
. . . . but we cannot hide under "thoughts" if it's wrong to say it out loud ......
slaves betetr remmber this and act according to it.
They are responsible for expressed thoughts in a roleplay and they can hit back at them when a Master may feel annoyed or even offended by those thoughts.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:46:27 pm CST
*nods to Jarl Thorrn*
True......a slave would not be allowed to do such things, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have the capacity. If she allows those thoughts and demeanor to be expressed through her facial expression or body language, and some cannot help it, then yes it should be acted on. But from a roleplaying perspective, a slave could still smile and supplicate and do what she is supposed to without the Master knowing what she is thinking. This one does not think that a slave's thoughts, if put out there, should be acted on just because she is a slave.....
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:49:37 pm CST
*hears marieve* In that case, this one does not believe we have a true and expressive roleplaying environment if slaves always behave perfect and as is expected of them.
And......this one has done that in the past because it WAS expected of her, but she feels that we have begun to explore Gor in forums from a more roleplaying perspective than how everything should be perfectly one way or the other.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:50:25 pm CST
shuri
The expresses thoughts of a Free would be acted upon too.
lets say a Free expresses His thoughts about another Free in a offending way i´m sure that Free would also react at that, of cause in another way than to a slave.
May be with a kind of challange for a duel or sparring *wink*
marieve ~GS~ 20:52:16 pm CST
marieve agrees with you, shuri, to a point. There is a huge difference with being personally owned in caparison to a gs slave.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:52:18 pm CST
very true My snowrose
. . . . but we cannot hide under "thoughts" if it's wrong to say it out loud ......
slaves better remember this and act according to it.
They are responsible for expressed thoughts in a roleplay and they can hit back at them when a Master may feel annoyed or even offended by those thoughts.
......*nods to Jarl Thorrn* That is true, but then that comes under, there are good roleplayers and bad roleplayers. A good roleplayer will be honest to a character no matter what the consequences are and would not use it to simply hide behind.
*grins* As anything, it is not cut and dried. There are opinions, the way things are, and they way they should be......
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:52:35 pm CST
soft whisper to shuri so that other hardly will hear it
showing glitches in the behaviour of a slave can be a start for an exciting roleplay between Master and slave *winks with mischievious eyes at the slave*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:54:02 pm CST
a slave may express those feelings, but she must be prepared to pay the price if the Free do not accept hit...she has no rights. That makes for interesting roleplay, but as it says. In the end, she will lose... The forum is the place for free exchange of thoughts
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:55:38 pm CST
*grins to Jarl Thorrn and winks* Indeed......
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:56:35 pm CST
. . . . A good roleplayer will be honest to a character no matter what the consequences are . .. ..
Of cause a good roleplayer acts according to on´s character but even in a certain character like slave or Master there is a broad variety to be slave or to be Master.
Some slave are totally submisisve slaves and bow their head to each and everything and say yes Master
Some dare to lick the whip and dance at the edge of a whipping ... for different reasons ... etc.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:57:54 pm CST
*smiles* Just saying......this one has had her thoughts acted on by others when she didn't think it should be, and she submitted to it. Depending on the environment at the time.......and sometimes she has kept her thoughts to herself because of it.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:59:14 pm CST
Looks at My slave as she says ... in the end she will lose
and dares to contradict My slave.
A slave being put on her place, shown her submission to the power of her Master and that His will rules did not lose, she won too - in becoming a better slave and knwoing her place better than before.
That is if the Master will be a strong Master who doesn´t let the slave get away with her wiley ways of women.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:00:20 pm CST
yes Master...but then it becomes incumbent upon the Free to react to the slave...we are not equals. Just because a slave thinks it should be a certain way, or that her thoughts should be given consideration, doesn't make it so... There should be discipline given at times... That should be a part of roleplay too...
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:01:52 pm CST
~smiles to her Master~ yes my Master...and she is always grateful when her Master shows her the error of her ways..she needs that discipline, because at times she can be strong-willed.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:01:58 pm CST
Of caus a slave can express her thoughts,e ven when they are contradicting the Free
But she has to remember that she is slave and they are Free, so she has to find ways to express her thoughts in a proper way.
That is why it is good for slave to be a clever person *S*
Lita, Physician 21:03:09 pm CST
Alas, my time here is up for the evening, and I must go. I wish All here well, enough, and great joy
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:04:09 pm CST
Looks at the girl, i´m sure My little she-sleen doesn´t have to complain a lot about not being disciplined properly.
*big chuckle*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:04:33 pm CST
*grins hearing Jarl Thorrn* Even clever doesn't always allow a girl to get away things. Master may laugh or even be impressed and still whip her.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:07:35 pm CST
shuri
. . . . Master may laugh or even be impressed and still whip her . . . ..
Now, isn´t that a nice side of being a slave?
*grin*
And it is a nice side of being a Master ... do with the slave what One wishes to do, no matter if she is right or wrong .... just because it pleases the Master *sweet smile*
slaves enjoy being treated as a slave, Master enjoy to Master slaves and treat them like slaves... so the ends meet perfectly well as I think.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:10:15 pm CST
*Grins and nods* Those who are indeed Master or slave will show such even in their roleplay.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:10:33 pm CST
Looks at the clock.
A good time to end the forum of tonight.
Anyone having another topic to start or adding another clever thought to the thought topic?
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:11:42 pm CST
Aye Jarl Thorn
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:11:43 pm CST
nay my Master..she has said enough for one night
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:13:11 pm CST
Jarl THorn seems one slave among us is being a lil feisty, yes? wink
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:13:13 pm CST
shuri
Those who are true Masters and slaves will show it in their rolpelay
And others hopefully will and want to learn to become close to perfect because nobody is perfect and we all can only strive to get closer to that perfection.
Coming often to GS and doing ropleplay helps the most ... winks at ALL
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:13:22 pm CST
*grins hearing mistress snowrose* This one has as well most likely.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:15:42 pm CST
Thanks for scribing shuri
My regards to your Master, i hope He is on the mend and Wwe will see Him soon in here again.
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:16:44 pm CST
Jarl Thorn grins yep
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:28:48 pm CST
*smiles gathering up her materials and rising.*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:29:59 pm CST
girl wishes well to those who are leaving
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:31:26 pm CST
wishes all well who are leaving.
Dak 21:32:12 pm CST
I wish all well, that are leaving !
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:32:53 pm CST
*Slips out the door and pulls it closed behind her.*