Witness of Gor
Rollo the Ax~~~ Well, folks... let get this show on the road... Welcomew to the GS forum... same rules as always... Does anbody have a topic they wish to discuss ??? or was there a carry over topic jasma ????
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ aye Master Rollo.. there was the:
what the thoughts are of John Norman's latest book. Did T/they feel His views had changed regarding Master/slave/Free or pretty much the same. What quotes were found profound and thought provoking. How can W/we implement some of our actions towards His thoughts on being Gorean?
Asellus~~~ Who is familiar with the latest book, first of all? Who has read it?
Markos~~~ not having read this book yet, listening with keen interest
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Okay then, I guess we do have a carry over topic... One in which I will have little input, as I have not read the last book.... So, how about it those that have read Witness of Gor ????
Mandi~~~ Magicians or Witness?
Emerald Forest~~~ *I have not read it as yet,but I have heard that it is from the eyes of a slave again,like dancer,kajira and slave of gor*
Errand Knight~~~ not yet available in Oz, except as import
Lemuel~~~ ~raising a hand~ I have read "Witness".
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~looking to Master.. knowing He's read the book as well as jaz.. ~
Emerald Forest~~~ *so the floor is Your's then Lemuel LOL*
Lemuel~~~ I don't think John Norman's views on female slavery have changed any, not based on the new book anyway...
Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Listening with interest.*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to her Master's words~
Lemuel~~~ ~giving My luscious wench a squeeze as she wriggles in My lap~
The one quote I can think of is one I posted to the main board several months back...about the slave following the orders of the Master that nearest to her...
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL..LOL.. it seems that an * open * discussion about the newest book may be a bit one sided...LOL... As stated, it is not in Oz yet, and unless somebody can tell Me where I can buy one using Paypal, I may be in for a LONG wait till I read it also...LOL..
Lemuel~~~ ~listening to the Senior Captain~
Hmmm...I don't know about being able to use Paypal, but the book can be ordered direct from World of Gor, or it can be bought at Amazon.com
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~dark gems sparkle in the lighting as He squeezes His tasty pudding.. listening about the quote.. remembering something~
also.. even though the book was written in a slave girl perspective.. it was a few chapters into the book, if the girl's memory serves her right, before the girl ever referred to herself as a slave..
~looking to her Owner.. ~
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at jasma~ Aye, and Norman did something a bit different at the beginning of the book this time...he used a series of flashbacks...I found that very hard to follow.
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ aye Master.. when this one first started it.. she had a hard time keeping up.. more so than with any of the other books.
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. flashbacks ?? those are seldom good.... LOL...LOL.. people look at you funny....LOL...LOL.. laughing at Myself ....LOL.
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~finding the quote her Master spoke of~
Then I looked up at him, in misery. "Who am I to obey?" I cried. "The officer told me one thing, and you tell me another.! Whom am I to obey?"
"You will obey me," said the depth warden.
"But is he not higher than you?" I asked, timidly.
"Yes," he said. "He is higher than I, but you will obey me."
"Master?" I asked.
"For I am closer to you than he," he whispered.
I shuddered. I was indeed in the keeping of the depth warden. It was in his quarters that I had my kennel. It was on the wall of those quarters that hung the whip to which I was first subject. It was he within whose direct reach I was.
Witness of Gor, page 400
Lemuel~~~ ~I smile at My wench and give her another squeeze before dipping My face under the sable curtain of her hair to nibble at her throat just above the enameled collar~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~sharing another quote~
I knew so little of this world!
When I did understand it I became aware, more seriously than hitherto, of the nature of the men in this city--of their skill, ferocity and pride, and their sense of honor.
The men of Gor, our masters, tend to take honor very seriously.
I would learn more of this later.
The slave, incidentally, wants to be owned by a man of honor. We want to be proud of our masters. Too, we are safer with such a man. The man of honor, of course, and perhaps in part because of his sense of honor, holds us in uncompromising, perfect bondage. But that is what we want, for we are slaves.
Witness of Gor, page 408
Rollo the Ax~~~ Aye, the first quote re-enforces the concept that a slave is subject to punishment from ANY Master due to her proximity to him... It is one of the differences from the books and on-line Gor... on-line Masters generally don't want or trust ANY other Master to punish HIS slave....
Lemuel~~~ One change in the new book is that the word "muchly" isn't used, or not that I can recall anyway. ~S~
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the Captain~ Aye Rollo, and in this case the Master had full rights over the wench. He could have killed her at His slightest whim.
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~and offering one more quote~
"That is what we must drink," I had informed her, noting with satisfaction the expression on her face as she had lifted up the bowl, filled with the foul brew, and had smelled it. "It is not like the delicious beverages quaffed by free women for such purposes, is it?" I had asked.
"No," she had whispered.
"I am told, however," I said, "that the releaser is delicious. When we are given that we know that we are to be bred." This form of mating, as one might suppose, is carefully controlled and takes place under supervision. The slaves selected for breeding are generally unknown to one another, normally hooded and commonly forbidden to speak. In this way it is felt that certain complications may be avoided.
She looked down at the foul brew.
"You need not drink it," I said to her.
"No," she whispered. Then she lifted the bowl to her lips. She put back her head. Then, scarcely pausing to take a breath, she drained the bowl.
"Oh!" she cried, her entire body shuddering.
"That is slave wine," I said, "free woman."
I regarded her with some satisfaction. I thought that she migh now understand, a little bit better than before, what it might be to be a slave.
"How can you drink it?" she asked.
"Do you think we are given a choice?" I asked.
She put the bowl down, unsteadily.
"Will it work with a free woman?" she asked.
"If she is a female," I said. "Where do you think slave girl's come from?"
"Bracelet me now, Janice," she asked. "Leash me. Take me above now."
Witness of Gor, pages 413-414
Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay.... it seems that there are so few that have read the last book that except for the quotes being shown, there is little to be discussed.... lets go on to another topic, agreed ????
Lemuel~~~ ~nods to the Senior Captain, shifting the first girl slightly in My lap~
Kayla~~~ ~listening for the next topic~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to Master Rollo.. and moving as her Owner shifts her.. waiting for another topic.. ~
Markos~~~ listening for the next topic
Where slaves kneel
Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay, how about this topic * Should the slaves who are owned by any on the council be allowed to ascend the dais when the slave's Master is not present? ????
Kayla~~~ ~thinking about this topic for a moment~
Emerald Forest~~~ *why would they need to in the first place,if not placing some coins in the box*
Markos~~~ are the Council members slaves not expected to serve and do chores when their Masters are not present in the tavern ?????
Emerald Forest~~~ *unless they are going to do a bit of cleaning*
Lemuel~~~ I'd say hell no, Captain. I wouldn't even let My Woman sit up here if I wasn't in the room.
syture{EF}~~~ no, they shouldn't unless their Owner said for her too, otherwise they should be upon the serving furs with the other
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at some of the comments~ Unless they're cleaning or something that is...
vika{Marius}~~~ ~vika would think it would be at the decision of Council or her owner, First Sword, Master Marius. It is not a decision to be made by the slut. *respectfully* she knows that the slaves have done so for over 3 years...give or take......but the serving furs are just as comfy. *soft smiles*~
Markos~~~ seems if a slave is upon the dias without her master they are being placed above the free
Archrid~~~ May a newcommer to these shores ask as to what the discussion is about?
Errand Knight~~~ certainly to clean and remove spent drink vessels, food bowls and trays
so long as they remain on all fours and keep their pretty heads lower than Patrons sitting about the tavern
Kayla~~~ I agree with the consenses... If a slave is to busy in the Tavern serving and if not serving doing chores then they have no time to lounge about on the dais awaiting their Owners... ~soft smiles~... But it is how it has been done in the past ~nodding at vika's words~
Shadowglade~~~ I'll say it as clearly as I know how for the slaves present here, and for the Free that may be here when I am not. I expect any slave, ANY slave privately owned or not who is present in the Tavern, and not needed to serve to do chores, and not merely lounge like some sort of princess on her Master's furs, unless she has been told to rest after a branding...as I see it there is never any reason for any slave not to be doing something useful with her time when in the Tavern. If a slave comes in and does not expect to have to serve than I feel she's suffering severe delusions about her place in Gor....
Shadowglade~~~ Tal Archrid, currently we are discussing slaves owned by Council members ascending the dais to sit upon their Master's furs, and whether they should or should not....
vika{Marius}~~~ ~vika smiles towards Mistress Kayla, it is good to see You....*respectfully*......it does not matter where vika sits......for she is completely happy and content in her bondage and yearns to only serve. *softly* as it should be.~
Kayla~~~ ~smiles to the girl of the Captain~ aye vika as it should be dear...
vika{Marius}~~~ ~Agreeing with Master Shadowglade. That is so true....there is 'always' so much to be done.~
Emerald Forest~~~ *I suppose it all depends on who is in the tavern at the time,as some might not know the rules and some do*
Archrid~~~ Thank you ShadowGlade...Interesting topic.
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. this subject has two sides just like any other... If the owner, who happens to be a Captain tells his slave to always sit next to his chair or table, she MUST.... and even though any slave might be on the dais, they are STILL slave...so how can they be above a Free ???? But it also would tend to appear that such a slave was above her sisters... ???? LOL..LOL.. Like all things, no CLEAR CUT answer all the time... but for My two tarsk bits worth... I also would question why a slave would be seated such if her Master was not about... LOL...LOL..
Paedur of Culai~~~ I can say that even though I do not know any of the rules, that vika did make Me welcome, and served Me well, and taught Me more of this world. That she, in My most humble and not knowing much of this world's opinion, that she honored her Master Marius,, her home, her place, and her being. I was quite impressed with how the girl treated One such as I.
Lemuel~~~ The way I see it is the dais is for Council Members. If the Owner is present then they can order the girl to them, or not, as They please. If the girls don't have any chores to do they should kneel on the common serving furs to wait and see if any Free require their service.
vika{Marius}~~~ ~vika blushes peach. her eyes downcast. she knows no other way Master Paedur......it was an honor to be able to serve in any capacity whatsoever. *softly* such a handsome One. *winks*~
Errand Knight~~~ surely such a Captain would insult the patrons of His Home by giving such a command to His slave? I fully accept a slave on the Captains dais when He is present, and most captains are grubs so the joint needs cleaning, but to cammand a slut to sit there when He is not present? must have started on the paga early that day
vika{Marius}~~~ ~vika knows that her Master has told her to kneel at His furs....however, she will be most happy to comply with kneeling upon the serving furs...it is not a matter of where one kneels...but that she remembers her place and lot in life...which is as dirt......always ready to serve and be of use. *softly* It will be a welcome change.....*smiles softly*~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~offering softly~.. and a slave should always be busy, either by serving, doing chores, studying, being tested, etc.. and if a slave is studying.. it's still best to always know when a Free enters and not ignore Them..
Lemuel~~~ ~smiles at vika~ I'm not saying a girl should disobey her Master, just throwing in My two tarsk-bits. ~G~
Paedur of Culai~~~ you honor your Master and your home vika. I was and am well pleased with your attention to Me, as One who is new to Gor, and this home. I would say if I deside to call this place home, and make a pledge, once I learn more of Gor, it will be in part from your manners and well taught ways.
vika{Marius}~~~ ~*nods* to Master Lemuel.....with a grin. vika is fine with whichever way is decided upon......and feels there should be a concise decision so a slave will not err. *softly* a girl just aches to serve...no matter from where. *grin*~
Shadowglade~~~ how is it an insult to You, EK if I wish My slave to kneel on My furs, just as you would yours on your own? Granted, Im not saying that it doesn't create potential for problems amongst the slaves, but even so, I would think that any Free threatened by a slave kneeling on her Masters furs on the dais would need to discover within themselves what would cause them to feel threatened by a slave....of all things.
Kayla~~~ I do agree with vika that it would be best that all the slaves do the same either they do or do not... But that is a Captains decision to decide amoung themselves ~smiles~...
vika{Marius}~~~ ~*softly* she knows no other way to be, Master Paedur, and she looks so forward to the day if and when You would pledge here. *licks lips*~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to all the comments offered.. knowing to her it don't matter where she's permitted to kneel.. like vika.. a girl just wishes to be of use.. ~
Errand Knight~~~ reflecting on vikas post
hadnt even noticed anything other than the slave kneeling and offering her service as required
perhaps My views are silly
vika{Marius}~~~ ~That is also true, mistress jasma....a slave is never at a lack of doing....anything. And should be busy with one thing or the other....it keeps her out of trouble.
vika has always felt as Mistress Kayla. That clear cut rules are good for slaves.....it eliminates so much hassle......*smiles* and then stick to them for all concerned. It helps a kajira to keep it all straight.~
Paedur of Culai~~~ If I may ask, why is there any issues amoungst the slaves or the Free women. Has not the Master, The Warrior earned His position on the Dais, and so His belongings as well, be it blade, chair, or slave? I would think that the slaves and Free women would respect His postion, right fully won, Yes?
Emerald Forest~~~ *I think it comes down to each Master and His slave*
vika{Marius}~~~ ~Actually, Master Errand Knight, Your views make sense....there were some very good points brought out upon this topic...Master Shadowglade also had some great points.......well worth hashing out in this slaves point of view who generally kneels on the dais, on her Master's furs. *LOL* Gives her something to think about....she does feel there is no slave higher or lower...slaves are what they are.....slaves......all the same....*nods nods*~
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at Paedur~ A very good point...I doubt Any would object if I left My staff on the dais...
Errand Knight~~~ Shadowglade: perhaps You are right...My instinctive reaction is to see the captains dais as a place of honour for Those who toil to make Oour Home what it is...I am not threatened by a slave being there just as I am not threated by Any here ..it is an issue of whether when her Master is not there it is an oppropriate place to be..I think not, though i know she must if her Master requires it of Her. If as most here beleive it to be innaprropriate, I ask why You would command it if it made any free feel discomfort, whatever the reason may be?
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. before this can become some sort of point of contention.... can we all agree that ANY Master, captain or not, has the right to tell HIS slave where to sit or not ??? and can we also agree that we all have our own * special * place where we feel most comfortable ...favorite table, furs, corner ??? It is a case of little more than * marking teritory *... Has there truly been a case of a Captains slave abusing her situation of sitting on the dais ??? they still kneel there.... it is not like they pull up a chair, and put their feet up on the table, is it ????? LOL....
vika{Marius~~~ ~That is what vika was told to do Master Paedur *smiles* by her Master...so for over 3 years has always just knelt upon His furs upon the dais.....but all things are subject to change she suppose....*laughs softly* It is a moot point to her...as she does what she is told.....and to her it is not where she kneels, but the fact she is always submissive, pleasing and beautiful in all that she says or does.....Master Marius has just always had her kneel in wait upon His furs.....and she was told to serve to the best of her ability at ALL times.~
Shadowglade~~~ *grins at vika* is any slave higher? Well, there is only one, who holds higher "rank" among the slaves, if you wish to call it that, and that is because she is charged with working her little ass off to help the rest of you...and that's jasma...she is first girl, appointed by the Council, she is the only slave that the others are expected to call "Mistress"...however, that stated, she too is only a slave beast...I am thankful that we have a first girl who does not allow her status to go to her head. She does well, which speaks well of her slave belly...and her Master in My opinion
Emerald Forest~~~ *I agree with both*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~nodding to vika~.. aye sis.. it may save a girl from being reminded of the feel of the whip.. ~shuddering as she glances to the wall..~
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling at the Captain's words~
Aye Rollo, the slave should always do as her Master tells her. No argument there.
Paedur of Culai~~~ Exactly Lemuel. From what I have read, the Warriors sword is of more value than the slaves. So if there is not an issue with the a Warriors most prized possession being on the Dais, then there should not be an issue with a slave. What would be the course of action if a Warrior removed another WArriors sword, and placed in down near the fires? Ownership is ownership and should be completed respected, regardless if it is steel or flesh.
Lemuel~~~ ~grins at Shadowglade and stokes the raven locks of the first girl sitting in My lap~
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: Id be worried about Your staff if it was bolt upright in the middle of the dias, otherwise i prolly wouldnt notice it....its rare that i dont notice the beauty of a slave though *winks*
Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ Aye Praedur, I just think a girl shouldn't *expect* to be allowed to kneel on the dais just because her Master is on the Council. It should be entirely up to her Master.
Paedur of Culai~~~ Again you honor your Master vika. I do not think you could ever do less.
vika{Marius}~~~ ~There is a first girl, Master Shadowglade, that trains us and is here for us and helps with everything......but a slave is just a slave. vika is in agreement Master......vika has learned so much from the fg...and happy that she is here....no argument there. *winks*~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to Master Shadowglade's words.. respectful~
aye, Master Shadowglade.. a girl is still just a slave.. Master Lemuel's property.. a collared wench.. ~looking to her Owner.. knowing what she is.. ~
Lemuel~~~ ~grinning at the Physician as I finger the carvings on My staff and then place it standing upright on its end next to the chair, not touching anything but the floor~
You mean My staff setting here like this might worry You? ~grins~
Paedur of Culai~~~ Point well taken Lemuel. Nods. although from what I have seen of vika, I do not think she would ever "expect" to be anywhere except where her Master specifically told her to be.
Markos~~~ well much of gor is symbolic, and I think placing a slave on the dias without her master is inappropriate, but I also have to agree that what the girl's master wants is His choice
however, many times I come in here and there is no slaves to serve or not enough to serve so wouldn't it be in their master's best interest and pocketbook as well that their slaves are serving,
Errand Knight~~~ Rollo: Im enjoying the discussion as i hope others are ..that there are different perspectives is wonderful ...so long as there is a reurn of mutual respect then I for One am pleased that there are different views ..I would like to think that both Shadowglades and vikas views have given Me cause for reflection
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL... I think that this subject is one that could mean more to some than to others... by that, I mean that there should really be no big deal, until such times as a Captains slave DOES use her placement on the dais as some sort of insult to her sisters... " thumbing her nose... nanny, nanny, nannnnnny ... I am better than YOU are cause I get to sit on the daaaaiiisss ..."" ?????? Now THAT case would get a BIG bag of whoop ass from Rollo .......
Shadowglade~~~ *chuckles as he glances to Lem* I don't believe ANYONE Free OR slave belongs sitting on the dais unless 1. they have been invited by someone on the Council who is present, and sitting on the dais, or 2. she is a slave and is told by her Master that that is her place even when he is not present. But to presume to sit upon the dais when one has not been directed to do so, nor invited by someone present, is irksome to Me...
mischief{WH}~~~ ~slipping quietly to the door, she kneels and listens~
vika{Marius}~~~ ~as one who kneels upon the dais or did...*LOL* she never expected to do so. she was TOLD to do so...as vika thinks all slaves feel.....or should. she is expected to serve and that she does. For vika to expect anything would bring dishonor to her Master......~
vika{Marius}~~~ ~vika smiles softly towards Master Paedur.~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~closing liquid orbs for an ehn to thoroughly enjoy her Master's touch while she listens to the discussion~
vika{Marius}~~~ ~There are a lot of times, as well, when a slave enters to serve, because she burns to do so and there are 'no' Master's about....it is a double~edged dilema....~
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.....LOL... Yes, Errand Knight ...... that is exactly it.... we ALL have our own ideas of what is right, wrong, or in between.... and of what are BIG issues and those hardly worth thinking of.... The Council sets what they see as a minimum of acceptable rules or actions, and hopes that everybody will follow them.... that is how laws and societies work.....
Errand Knight~~~ Rollo: and what makes them delightfully fragile too ..still Wwe all strive to make gor a place that is both different and less fragile than distant earth
Walking sticks and staffs
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: and here I thought You were a Builder rather than a practitioner of the dark arts! *winks*
Lemuel~~~ ~grins and winks at the Physician~
Oh, nothing mystical about it... ~reaching to grasp the staff and twisting the carving further, causing a six hort steel spike to emerge from the end of the wooden stave~
Lemuel~~~ ~retracting the spike and laying the staff against the arm of the chair again, I turn to tossel the hair of My slave~
Errand Knight~~~ geez, wondering if Lemuel will make Me one of those for My travels ..not that the nomads and others havnt been more than hospitable
Shadowglade~~~ *stroking em's hair as if in greeting, and returning his attention to the forum*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~blowing at the errant strands that have fallen before eyes as her Master tossles *His* her dark mane.. winking at Him~
Rollo the Ax~~~ Well, folks... it is that time.... I will call this forum to an end, but if y'all feel like staying and discussing things more, please feel free to do so.... I thank everybody for taking part today...and hope to see everybody again next week.... same time, same channel .....LOL..
Paedur of Culai~~~ I wonder Lemeul, if You can do the same with a steel hook, and You can with Your Stave? Showing My left hand where now resides a bright oddly silvered metal hook. A gift of My patrons. Perhasp You could build a way for the hook to turn into a good spoon, perhaps.
Kayla~~~ Thank You Rollo for a wonderful Forum *S*
mischief{WH}~~~ ~giggling~ (see, bet you never thought she could be in a forum and keep her mouth shut)
Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ Aye EK, I make similar staves for those journeying to the Sardar for their obligitory visit. Stop by the shop and I'll go over the various models and prices with You. ~S~
Errand Knight~~~ great forum Ffolks
seems a few of Uus have some reading homework but *chuckles*
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: I will look forward to doing so Captain
Lemuel~~~ ~nods to Praedur~ Aye, I might be able to come up with something...
Markos~~~ Thanks for a good forum Captain,
Lemuel~~~ (Just so E/everyone knows where I got that trick from.)
Similarly walking sticks and staffs often have one or more such compartments in them, reached by unscrewing various sections of the stick or staff. Needless to say, some of these, too, contain, daggers or thrusting swords. Such concealed compartments and weapons, and sometimes even builder’s glasses, sun chronometers, and compasses, and such, are found in such objects. It is cultural for white-clad pilgrims from certain cities to carry such staffs, often entwined with flowers, in pilgrimages to the Sardar. Such folks are not as harmless as they might seem, as various brigands have learned to their sorrow.
- Mercenaries of Gor, pages 211-212
Paedur of Culai~~~ I will look forward to seeing You work Your magic Lemuel.
Kayla~~~ Since I have not read that book that is really cool Captain Lemuel... I had no idea S**
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~hearing the Torvaldslander call the forum to a close.. one speaks~
a girl thanks You once again, Master Rollo for an informative forum, and for allowing a slave to speak..
~trying to catch up on any scribing she missed~