Present:
Ramses
Thorrn
Hunter
Bretval
Dak
Sheadon
Lita
lilith
shimmer
flicka
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 19:49:00 pm CDT
Looks at the waterclock.
!5 minutes over time, enough people are in so i declare the Forum of tonight as open.
Remember to keep greetings and tals and chi-chat in whipser from now.
Whisper to Me Y/your questions, remarks and whatever Y/you wish to be discussed tonight.
I hope for maaaaany whisper, they have been a bit just a few during the last forums.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 19:51:09 pm CDT
Still waits for a storm of whispers . . .
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:51:24 pm CDT
*chuckles*
Dak 19:51:57 pm CDT
good luck, Thorrn, *smiles*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 19:53:18 pm CDT
Ok, then I will make the pace, once again.
In bookclub Wwe read the Savages of Gor and there has been mentioned something I would like to hear some thoughts about.
What to think about time-limited slave contracts on Gor for Free Woman to be the slave of a Man for a limited time?
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:54:17 pm CDT
*strokes My chin
a very interesting thought, Thorrn
Hunter{aura} 19:55:32 pm CDT
Looks to Lady Lita....well it seems Jarl Thorrn read My mind....grins...ruffles a sheath of papers
Lita, Physician 19:55:57 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn, the catch to them is that by the books, once they are enslaved, the Owner does not have to release them when the contract is up.
Dak 19:56:45 pm CDT
never really thought much about it, since it was the was of the Red Savages ! they ere quite different in a number of ways !
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:57:08 pm CDT
*laughs*
all the more interesting Lita
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 19:57:53 pm CDT
Lita, no it is not to catch them.
The FW do it voluntarily becasue they wnat it and a contract is made about it and when it ends She becomes a Free Woman again.
Bretval, Merchant 19:59:28 pm CDT
And what is the advantage to the Tavern?
Lita, Physician 19:59:28 pm CDT
Dak, these "Contracts" are mentioned in one or more of the earlier books too.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 19:59:42 pm CDT
Dak, as i remember that is not an habit in the barrens of the Red Savages.
As far as i remember TC describes it as habit in some places of Gor.
So what are Your objections to such contract?
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:00:41 pm CDT
more slaves, Bretval
*G*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:01:06 pm CDT
Bretval
I think the advantages are for the Free Woman enjoying the pelasures of a slave and finding out if She wishes to be a slave.
taverns aren´t mentioned in that context.
Dak 20:01:59 pm CDT
oh, I don't have any objections different factions of Gor have different ways , *smiles*
Hunter{aura} 20:02:28 pm CDT
So I gather its a way for two Free that are attracted to bond ...a kind of rule bending but not also
One assumes its only Free Women this applies to....and are there steel undies on gor if not?
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:03:43 pm CDT
I wonder how the FW being a slave for some months, maybe a year can go back to be a FW?
What about the neighbours, relatives and such? Will They stil respect her as FW? Will She get easier enslaved now as not behaving with the modesty of a FW?
Bretval, Merchant 20:04:09 pm CDT
Well I have been travelling so I missed the influx of Free Women
Dak 20:04:36 pm CDT
I was a was't aware the Savages weren't Red Savages !*smile*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:04:40 pm CDT
Grins at Hunter.
Steel undies are not needed for FW ... They are legless as Wwe used to say in here for a while.
*l*
Dak 20:06:30 pm CDT
they do have iron belts on Gor
Lita, Physician 20:06:59 pm CDT
O.K. Here are some quotes from Luther on these Contracts:
A free woman may do a form of limited self-contracting where she legally becomes a slave for a specific time period, commonly ranging from one night to one year. She cannot end this contract earlier than the specified time period. Once the contract takes effect, she becomes a slave with no legal powers at all. This curious contractual arrangement is not described in great detail. It raises numerous legal dilemmas that can only be speculated about. The books do not state that the contract covers any contigencies or limits the slavery in any way. The woman becomes an actual slave. That would seem to mean she could be freely killed. What would happen is she was sold? Does the contract prevent that? Would the time period still apply if she was sold? What would happen if she was stolen? This passage seems to raise far more questions than it answers.
"Serve me paga," said Thurnus. He handed the goblet to Sandal Thong.
She took it and knelt before him. She held the goblet in two hands, as was proper. She looked up at him. Then she kissed the goblet, almost as though she felt herself unworthy of doing so. Then she put her head down between her lifted, extended arms and, holding the goblet with two hands, proffered it to him.
Though she was free, she served as a slave. Villagers gasped. Free women cried out, scandalized." (Page 373)
"There are a number of ritualistic aspects associated with this manner of serving wine. The attitude of kneeling is obvious. Kissing the master's cup is a token of submission, much like kissing his belt, his whip or boots. But, too, it suggests that their lips meet, through metal and wine, or paga, as the case may be. The girl, sensing herself unworthy to feel the kiss of the master, dares at least to kiss lovingly that which his lips will later touch. Then she puts her head down, in submission. Her arms are extended, and her hands are on the cup. This is a beautiful posture in a female, crying out of service, submission and beauty. As her hands are placed so closely together, too, it is reminiscent of her small wrists being linked in slave bracelets. Indeed, wine, or paga, may be so served by a braceleted slave." (Page 373-74)
shimmer{GS} 20:07:21 pm CDT
almost screams at the thought of an iron belt ohhhhhhhh please no not that shivers!!!!!
Lita, Physician 20:07:56 pm CDT
Dak the Red Savages are of the North. I believe they are roughly akin to the Eskimos on Earth
Hunter{aura} 20:08:04 pm CDT
Chuckles.... I meant in case the Free Men start looking at each other Thorrn..may The Priest Kings save us all in that event....*L*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:08:51 pm CDT
Another question, what happens to the poseesions of the FW while being a slave?
A slave can not own anything. So has the temporary Master the rights over that posession or can that be excluded by contract?
Remember in one of the books about the waggon people a FW got tricked by that, her Master in a fight of tradition betrayed her by not realising her from thta slavery and kept all Her richess for Him as She became a slave now.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:11:05 pm CDT
I guess that would depend on how good a "negotiator" the Master was, Thorrn
Lita, Physician 20:11:38 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn , when Aphris of Turia was in the Love Wars, She was an heiress. If I remember correctly, had she been captured and enslaved, Her Guardian would have retained Her money and property. After all, a slave can own nothing. It was, I believe, stated or implied that that was the reason Her Guardian put Her in the Loved Wars.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:13:00 pm CDT
Hunter, damn, no steel undies for Me
*L*
Thanks Lita for psoting the quotes of Luther.
Some interesting aspects in it.
I found the idea of contractual enslavement on Gor quite interesting.
Though i enjoy more to be the unlimited Master of My slave
*chuckles*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:14:16 pm CDT
Nods to Lita.
Life on Gor is dangerous for FW, even in such matters. They can easily be tricked and the collar stays around the neck.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:15:07 pm CDT
Hunter, damn, no steel undies for Me
*L*
Thanks Lita for psoting the quotes of Luther.
Some interesting aspects in it.
I found the idea of contractual enslavement on Gor quite interesting.
Though i enjoy more to be the unlimited Master of My slave
*chuckles*
Dak 20:15:15 pm CDT
it would seem to me the contractual agreement would be more like BDSM, than Gor, *smiles*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:16:51 pm CDT
Nods to Dak
It sounds a bit more like BDSM than Gor but it is in the Gorean books.
Bretval, Merchant 20:17:16 pm CDT
So were these contracts common or known in Port Kar?
Dak 20:17:40 pm CDT
but were the Red Savages actually Gorean in the sense of Gor !
Hunter{aura} 20:18:32 pm CDT
Sometimes a battle of wills is stimulating perhaps....and it would be interesting to watch a Free Woman serve...how able she was to supress that idea of equality and give herself to the moment
Aye Dak..agreed...although true D/s would never allow such a mishmash of status...what we are is what we are..only in roleplay can that be otherwise
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:18:51 pm CDT
Bretval I had the same question
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:19:05 pm CDT
Bretval, it hasn´t been mentioned where theses contracts have been practised and where not.
It was a geenral pondering of TC in the Savges f Gor, i think when He pondered about the white slaves of the Savges which formerly have been Free Women before becaming slaves of the savages.
Dak 20:19:08 pm CDT
if I remember correctly, it seems the Savages seldom enslaved their own women !
Lita, Physician 20:19:55 pm CDT
Dake the books state the Woman acts and is used fully as a Gorean Slave. And as I pointed out earlier, the Owner, once the woman is enslaved, is not required to released Her. And Bretval, there is no mention that I know of about any such contracts being extant in Port Kar. Even if there were, THIS Free Woman is not about to accede to one! And I believe it must be drawn up as any other contract, and assented to by the Free Woman.
shimmer{GS} 20:19:57 pm CDT
truthfully there are many thing that are both BDSM and Gor related... there is one scene in a book that was so extreme of a punishment of a girl that it was more BDSM but yet it was gor...all over eating ramberries and lying about it...
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:20:40 pm CDT
Ok, i think this mindstorming topic came to end end and here is something i got whispered.
I am interested in the idea of the pledged Brother ..and of loyalty...what is and isnt.. etc
Lita, Physician 20:21:24 pm CDT
Dak, ALL cultures that have been planted and grown up on Gor are Gorean by definition. And they all shared certain aspects of Gorean beleifs in common.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:22:12 pm CDT
With respect to All present, it seems to this girl yet another example of Norman throwing in a "appropos of nothing" without either thinking it through or following it up in any meaningful way.
The points that Master Luther brings up are valid. This girl would also say what is it in for the Free Woman , other than a vicarious thrill in "playing" slave girl for a while. A thrill fraught with the very real danger that the Man will not honour the contract when it comes time to release her.
Dak 20:22:22 pm CDT
oh, in Captive, , yes, but but beating and whippings were seldom done for pleasure on Gor, in fact I am not aware of it all !
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:23:15 pm CDT
Dak, They do.
Think od Cuwignaka and lie He looks at Bloketu, daughter of a chief.
As i know JN, she has rare chance not to end as a slave ina collar
*L*
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:24:10 pm CDT
*winks to flicka*
I'd think only an act of desperation would cause a FW to accept such a bargain
Lita, Physician 20:24:20 pm CDT
Agreed, Dak.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:24:36 pm CDT
shimmer
That was beating for punishment , not for pleasure as in BDSM.
Even it has been severe and harder than a slave would expect it for such fault, it was still punishment.
Hunter{aura} 20:25:15 pm CDT
I truly think that the contract is just a way to still play at gor while getting it on with someone that as a human and a chatter takes ones fancy and a mutual fondness grows...thats as far as online gor goes
as to Gor by the books...well ...tis as flicka says...nods
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:25:52 pm CDT
Nods to flicka
JN enjyos to do such thing, disgressing a bit and not thinking things to an end.
Lita, Physician 20:26:21 pm CDT
flicka, I think some of the things He thinks up, are ideas planted for possible later use. Whether He actually gets around to using them or not are kind of irrelevant.
Dak 20:26:36 pm CDT
I don't think JN ever thought of it being questioned or discussed, *smiles*
Hunter{aura} 20:27:24 pm CDT
I disagree Lita....I dont think he ever thought beyond the next page...its clear from book 1 chapter 1
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:27:59 pm CDT
*L*, good point Dak
Puts up the question, did JN ever expect His books to be so succesfull?
Dak 20:29:08 pm CDT
I'm quite sure He never envisioned His books being used for n online roleplay, *smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:29:56 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn, He has said that He wrote the first book on a bet with a friend as to whether He, a Professor of Philosophy, could write anything publishable. So I doubt He put much thought into HOW successful they might be, just whether He could put stuff in them that would get them publishedd.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:30:05 pm CDT
That for sure Dak
The books started to be written in the 60ies or 70ies.
Not much online life going on at that time.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:30:10 pm CDT
Perhaps so Mistress, but a good writer and a writer who respects His readership does not do such things. He follows through of the "thrown out there" ideas.
Lita, Physician 20:30:50 pm CDT
Dak I have heard that He has said He hates on-line Gor and what it has done to His stories.
Dak 20:31:18 pm CDT
My understanding is that JN wrote the books as an objection to ERA amendment that was passed about the time He began writing them , *smiles*
Bretval, Merchant 20:31:44 pm CDT
considering there was no online play at that time I would have to agree, Dak *grin*
Lita, Physician 20:31:45 pm CDT
But, flicka, John Norman is not necessarily a "Good" Writer. After all, He wrote the first book on a bet, and kinda got stuck with it! *LOL*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:31:51 pm CDT
sighs at being hated by JN.
But it surely helped to sell His books, i bet *l*
Hunter{aura} 20:32:12 pm CDT
just because we may like the concept of Master and slave and use the framework to live out this fantasy online...doesnt raise the written work to high standards of literature ...the fact of the matter is its pulp fiction...very soft porn adventures in space...nothing wrong with that either....but it does make serious discussion somewhat fraught
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:32:22 pm CDT
Dak, what is ERA?
Dak 20:32:42 pm CDT
maybe that's why His books 28 and 29, kind of wandered offthe general ideals of the previous 27 !
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:33:01 pm CDT
Devil's Advocateism (flicka word) so perhaps our slavish adherence to the Books is out of place. Perhaps they should be used only as a framework of a life style we all enjoy and wish to explore.
Dak 20:33:03 pm CDT
Equal Rights Amendment
Lita, Physician 20:33:20 pm CDT
The Equal Rights Amendment, Jarl Thorrn
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:33:20 pm CDT
I see, thanks Dak.
Dak 20:33:58 pm CDT
I've always compared the Gor books to being similar to the bible, with all the contradictions !
Lita, Physician 20:34:23 pm CDT
Thing is, flicka, if you deviate from the books, you make Gor even more of a mish mosh than it is by nature.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:34:50 pm CDT
The Gorean bible, that sounds fitting to Me.
*grin*
Dak 20:35:34 pm CDT
aye, that is about the way I think of it *smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:36:03 pm CDT
Regardless of how poor a writer an author may be, I still think he deserves the respect of his readership by their staying as close as is humanly possible to what he wrote. In this case, when you deviate from Gor, you no longer have Gor.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:36:08 pm CDT
Ok, I repeat My former posting.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:20:40 pm CDT
Ok, I think this mindstorming topic came to end end and here is something I got whispered.
I am interested in the idea of the pledged Brother ..and of loyalty...what is and isnt.. etc
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:36:48 pm CDT
That is what Wwe try to do in GS, Lita.
Bretval, Merchant 20:36:49 pm CDT
flicka the was trying to use his premise as his conclusion ... he wanted it to be so, so he 'proved' his wishes were true by saying they were true
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:37:21 pm CDT
Sorry for the slaves, that one i also topic concerning the Free a bit more.
*S*
Dak 20:37:38 pm CDT
aye, but as with Religions, there can be different was of practicing it !, as we can well see in this World !
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:38:01 pm CDT
~chuckling~ a bit like the Bible Master Bretval?
Lita, Physician 20:38:07 pm CDT
Me too, Jarl Thorrn. Part of the reason I look at it this way is that I was a drama major. So you could say I have a degree in Role-Playing. If I had a role in a Shakespearean play, I would not deviate one iota from the script. Nor would I deviate from any other script, regardless how poorly written that play might be. My job is to re-create what the author wrote, exactly as he wrote and intended it.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:39:31 pm CDT
I often think so too Lita ... when seeing modern realizations of plays.
It is often more the idea of the director than of the author.
Dak 20:40:11 pm CDT
but the Gorean books are not as of being like a script !
Bretval, Merchant 20:40:56 pm CDT
Yes, Dak... that is why I am an atheist
Lita, Physician 20:41:24 pm CDT
Perhaps not, Dak, but if We are going to role-play them, which in essence is what we are doing, then we owe them the same respect as we would the works of the author of a play, do we not?
Dak 20:41:31 pm CDT
I see the GS info pages as more like a script for Gor !
Bretval, Merchant 20:41:38 pm CDT
oops that was for flicka
Dak 20:42:34 pm CDT
to the point there are many things in the Books, we can not achieve in the ropleplay !
Hunter{aura} 20:42:37 pm CDT
but you dont pick a name in a shakepeare play...or invent the lines....totally different
Sheadon~ Pirate 20:43:35 pm CDT
well In GS its hard to be loyal because again back to last weeks topic about role play if there is no role play we can't be loyal there nothing to protect or defend about putting other site ahead of this one... no one can really tell what other sites are visited
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:43:38 pm CDT
~looks at her upper dangly bits and laughs~ Master Bretval flicka has never been mistaken for a Master before.
shimmer{GS} 20:44:10 pm CDT
girl takes it that it is a guide line to direct the lines of roleplay... like play acting or improve... you are given a guideline of what you are to do and then told to keep it with in the frame and sphere of the reality of the situation... but make it your own...
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:45:19 pm CDT
*nods to shimmer*
I agree ... well said
Dak 20:45:27 pm CDT
well, if you see it as I do, it is a script for life, and like JN's books, you can't take every word literally ! but we all need something bigger than ourselves to believe in and guide us ! and if for nothing else the moral values !
Lita, Physician 20:45:33 pm CDT
No, Hunter, you don't take a different name in a Shakesperean play, nor make up lines that are not there, nor omit lines that are there.
Hunter{aura} 20:45:49 pm CDT
loyalty is an attitude...a pledge is a word....subtle differences
Bretval, Merchant 20:45:57 pm CDT
That is why We have the Tavern and set the rules to follow that one location as best Wecan in role-playing
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:46:30 pm CDT
Lita .... nor change words to "modern" words beacuse to be poltical correct.
Lita, Physician 20:46:31 pm CDT
But, shimmer, even with improve, you have to keep it STRICTLY within the guidelines given.
Dak 20:46:37 pm CDT
I wasn't ware, a Gorean slave could pick and choose how to behave !
Lita, Physician 20:47:20 pm CDT
Exactly, Jarl Thorrn. And yes, We really do need to get on to the next topic.
Hunter{aura} 20:47:43 pm CDT
well spoken Bretval...the tavern rules...not the books
Lita, Physician 20:48:26 pm CDT
Hunter, yes, loyalty is a word. HOwever, keeping One's pledge DEPENDS on One's loyalty and ho9nor, does it not?
Lita, Physician 20:49:15 pm CDT
But, Hunter, the Tavern rules are BASED on the books, and the rules for Taverns given in the books.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:49:18 pm CDT
Lita
Thre is some difference in playing a Shekaespeare drama on a stage and soing a roleplay about Gor.
In the drama things are all outlined, words are given and the actors only reproduce them.
In a gorean roleplay we play a role, invent words and situations by ourselves, it just the auro and the style of Gor in which the roleplay should be set, it is much more freedome for the roleplayers, they don´t just reproduce.
Dak 20:50:24 pm CDT
can one be true to ones self an be totally loyal !
shimmer{GS} 20:50:35 pm CDT
no she cannot pick and choose how she behaves but she can react to the situation she has been put into...or creates..
Sheadon~ Pirate 20:51:25 pm CDT
how can we show our loyalty and honor nothing to prove it...
Lita, Physician 20:51:35 pm CDT
However, Jarl Thorrn, we need to be very careful that what we "make up" does not deviate from the guidelines of the books, don't we?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:52:21 pm CDT
~softly claps Jarl Thorrn, in utter agreement with His words~
Bretval, Merchant 20:54:14 pm CDT
~nods in agreement with Thorrn~
Hunter{aura} 20:54:19 pm CDT
I said pledge is a word in fact...loyalty is an attitude....and attitude is what determines actions...*S*...which includes honour yes
Lita, Physician 20:54:28 pm CDT
o.k. shimmer, one example. I saw a slave once get into a snit over something, and go out into the garden and pick a kanda leaf and eat it and die of its poison. 1. A slave has no right to take her own life. She doesn't own it. 2. the HOme was in Schendi, a jungle area, and kanda only grows in arid areas. 3. It is the roots of the kanda plant that are poisonous, not the leaves. So, she made herself totally ridiculous, and a mockery of good role-play.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:55:32 pm CDT
Lita, did she come back?
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:55:49 pm CDT
Dak
Be true to oneself and be loyal to orthers, a group, and idea or such will often lead to conflicts.
Mostly in minor things but sometimes also in major things.
The one is a sutiation which is named tragic ... and will have to become untrue to one of the two.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:58:12 pm CDT
Lita
There are always skilled and not so skilled roleplayers and in doing them and learning the roleplay can be enchnaced.
For that are discussions, teachings and if necesseary scoldings and punishments.
Slaves and also Masters gotta learn how to roleplay, very few fall into Gor and know already everything.
Lita, Physician 20:58:27 pm CDT
No. she didn't, Ramses. So I never got to give her what-for over it, though I made sure everyone else at the home knew of it.*chuckle*
Sheadon~ Pirate 20:59:48 pm CDT
unless our Ips are tracked how can any one here tell what other Gorean sites any of us were we also pledged at? how many of these site are there... we all can say we pledge our loyalty but whats not to say none of us aslo pledged to the rest
Hunter{aura} 20:59:55 pm CDT
chuckles....I admire your knowledge Lita....but for Myself I aint gonna spend forever learning every nitpicking do and don't...too old already...and I prefer to read shakespeare and the like frankly....I just like the atmosphere here and the folks...*S*.....so if I or others arent as versed and make mistakes....please forgive
shimmer{GS} 21:00:14 pm CDT
as i said with in the perimeters of r/p a girl has to know her home and what grows there and what can be done with in reality of r/p... no the kanda would not be a realistic r/p... and yes she could go out into the gardens but would not a NPC guard be following a girl if she was out alone as girls never travel alone... he would never allow that r/p to happen...
Ramses, Captain of GS 21:00:40 pm CDT
yes, so even though her RP was bad
she made a choice
even slaves make a choice
to remain a slave
or die
I always get a little annoyed when someone says a slave has no choice
everyone has choices to make ...
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:02:18 pm CDT
In the books a slave is expected to obey unthinkingly is expected to be to be a server of wine and food, a bedfellow when Master desires it, and yet within this forum slaves are encouraged to speak, albeit with respect, and so how is that adhering to the books? Are we not role playing?
Master Hunter a girl agrees with You, and even though a slave cannot have honour nor can she pledge she can show loyalty to the One Who owns her.
Lita, Physician 21:02:27 pm CDT
Some of us here CAN see and track IPs, Sheadon. And again, Our pledging rests on Our Honor. Without it, We have no honor. It used to be that if One's character was killed or died, or One had to leave for some reason,One left on-line Gor Forever. I knew several that did, and knew them well enough to know They never returned, anywhere in on-line Gor.
Dak 21:02:51 pm CDT
oh girls in the books were often sent on errands alone!
Bretval, Merchant 21:03:03 pm CDT
In short she came in to make a scene, Lita.... she was NOT one of us
shimmer{GS} 21:04:32 pm CDT
just like there are HNG there are BPS!!!!
Lita, Physician 21:04:44 pm CDT
flicka, we are not role-playing in the Forum, so are not strictly bound to the role-play rules. Here we are discussing the role-play, and learning how to do it better. Kind of like learning in school to speak a foreign language, as opposed to visiting a foreign country and having to speak that language.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:05:19 pm CDT
Ramses
The theory and the rules say slaves have no choice ... but as in rt life too that is not always true. Many chocies come up because not everything can be out into rules and laws.
Slaves are not allowed to touch weapons and fight .. in one of the books the female slaves did just that and helped TC out of big trouble.
Always following the rules sounds great .... but also boring in the long run.
I prefer a slave having some witty, sly mind and trying to chllange Me and finding out the lenght of leash and My determination to be a Master.
Much more fun this way for Me than just saying "yes,Master"
Though that is her duty according to the books.
Hunter{aura} 21:05:39 pm CDT
her loyalty ultimately flicka...is to her own attitude...and if that attitude says obey and honour then she will..in this respect gor and D/s and vanilla..all the world is the same....for all people
Lita, Physician 21:06:26 pm CDT
Ramses, I didn't say the girl didn't have a choice. I said she had no RIGHT to take her own life, as she didn't own it, her Owner did.
Lita, Physician 21:07:57 pm CDT
shimmer, I know all too well what HNGs are, but what are BPS?
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:07:59 pm CDT
Sheadon, tracking the IP wouldn´t help a lot.
eg here i just reboot My DSL-router and get another IP *l*
Matters of honor and loyality can not be tracked that way as i think, not by making up reports and such about people ... it is a matter of honor to want to tresure honour and such atitudes.
If one doesn´t want and is up to cheat then it is all invain anyways, as to My opinion.
Ramses, Captain of GS 21:08:33 pm CDT
*just smiles*
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:09:05 pm CDT
~reads Jarl Thorrn's words and ponders them, a girl agrees with You Jarl, but oh what a fine line to walk between being as You say "witty, sly mind and challenging" and being a princess or a ~gasp~ a brat. It beggars the question how can a Master show Mastery if there are none to Master.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:09:38 pm CDT
I think tracking IPs is illegal.. chuckles
shimmer{GS} 21:09:45 pm CDT
bratty pretend slaves...
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:11:11 pm CDT
Master Hunter, a girl reads Your words and they strike a chord, a girl stands in awe of Your insight. Indeed loyalty must first come to one's own attitude all else will follow. Without "truth and loyalty" to what we hold dear were are as a leaf in a hurricane, nothing, tossed willy nilly.
Hunter{aura} 21:11:15 pm CDT
ips are useless confusing things trust Me....better off pinning tails on donkeys than relying on those ips for decisions of identity
Bretval, Merchant 21:11:20 pm CDT
you are very familiar with that line, flicka *grinning*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:11:26 pm CDT
smiles to flicka
Aren´t those fine lines to walk not walways the most interesting?
One has to be careful to not step over the line, to be thinking, be clever, risk soemthing and find out to push the limits.
Always sailing in safe harboure is ... safe but not so much fun.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:12:21 pm CDT
agreed Thorrn
Hunter{aura} 21:12:22 pm CDT
looks at flicka....are you saying I plucked your G string girl?.....*grins*
Lita, Physician 21:12:41 pm CDT
flicka, a Master is as a Master does, regardless of whether He "shows his mastery". For example, my nephew is an alpha male from the word go. Doesn't have to show it. My 3 dogs recognize him as such from the moment they met him. The first one, the moment he met him, immediately rolled over and went belly up, the dog's way of submitting to him. He never even raises His voice with them, but they pay attention to every word he says. Me, on the other hand, if I didn't fee them they'd hardly know I existed! *chuckle*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:13:46 pm CDT
Sheadon, tracking of IPs is illegal?
No way, any browser knows your IP and tracks it, knows from which website you came from and many more things about your actions in the web.
you can stop only some of such things when you deal clever wiht the settings of your browser but not all.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:14:05 pm CDT
chuckles agreed Hunter... but the real hackers like the pros.. will and can find you..
Hunter{aura} 21:14:14 pm CDT
looks at Lita next...wags My tail....Woof!
Hunter{aura} 21:14:33 pm CDT
yes true enough Sheadon
Lita, Physician 21:14:54 pm CDT
You are right, Hunter.
And no, Sheadon, tracking IPs is NOT illegal. Webmasters have to do it all the time in order to permit membership, or ban them when necessary.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:15:25 pm CDT
no Thorrn I mean personl tracking
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:15:37 pm CDT
Master Bretval, oh yes and often flicka has not been able to succeed in the sobriety test and has fallen foul of the line. But as Jarl Thorrn has indicated where is the fun in perfection?
Lita, Physician 21:16:13 pm CDT
*winks* Are you submitting to Me, Hunter? You know my big dog is named Hunter! *snicker*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:16:46 pm CDT
Sheadon
I don´t understand "personal tracking".
Hunter{aura} 21:17:01 pm CDT
so what is the actual requirements of a pledge?
shimmer{GS} 21:17:51 pm CDT
laughs if you have nothing better to do than track someones IP on the chance they may be going so some other r/p site...you really have NO LIFE!!!!! people are going to do what they do... also really going to other sites would be a good idea would bring more people here.
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:18:04 pm CDT
But He is showing His Mastery Mistress Lita,to the dogs, albeit with them He does not have to display it overtly, if He were living in a bubble with no one and nothing living around Him could he show Mastery? The old chestnut, if a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it fall, etc.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:18:16 pm CDT
LOL@ Lita and her Hunter dog.
Your nephew being a natural alpha ... whispers ... did You also submit to Him?
*ggl as i tease you and imagine You wanting the belly to be scratched*
Lita, Physician 21:18:20 pm CDT
Sheadon, personal tracking is done quite legally as well. How do you think law enforcement gets copies of all the e-mails, and messages posted and exchanged on-line, and other on-line activities done by criminals they are tracking?
Hunter{aura} 21:18:49 pm CDT
No no I was saying Woof Lita...grins....like a stallion neighs at a filly and says come for a run down the meadow
Lita, Physician 21:19:05 pm CDT
The law doesn't always keep up with technology, and in this case, it hasn't quite caught up with the internet.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:19:29 pm CDT
Hunter
What about
Accepting, following and defneding the rules of Port given by the Council of Captains?
In GS/Port Kart it is the Capatains decision what are the rules, how the gorean life in here gets played.
Lita, Physician 21:20:00 pm CDT
Awww darn, Hunter! And here for a moment I was hoping I had a boy-toy...err...thrall! *snicker*
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:20:31 pm CDT
well yes other then the police... *L*
Dak 21:20:52 pm CDT
oh, there is supposed to be new slave boy coming, his name is shyboy
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:21:06 pm CDT
Lita
Life and the changing of thinsg are ALWAYS ahead of the laws, laws just try to catch up, and lost already when new laws got proclaimed because life is again a step ahead.
Bretval, Merchant 21:21:08 pm CDT
Personnaly I took a long before deciding to pledge to the Tavern... I believed it important to only do so if I could consider them as worthy of My loyalty
Hunter{aura} 21:21:59 pm CDT
flicka..last hunting trip I heard a tree fall from real close....so so dont be telling Me it dont make a sound.....mind you most falling trees dont end with...shit that was close...a foot to the left and I wouldnt be here.....Laughs
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:22:13 pm CDT
Very important reason why to pledge to a certain place Bretval.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:22:41 pm CDT
I mean unless given promission from the police no one from here show be be able to track the IP
Lita, Physician 21:22:50 pm CDT
I could do it too, Sheadon, if I had the time and the inclination, and it would not be illegal for Me to do so. I don't have to be police to do it, either. NOw if I harrassed you in the process, you MIGHT get charges filed, but depending where you are, the law might not define internet tracking as harrassment. How do you think you get all those advertisements in e-mail and on facebook and so on?
Hunter{aura} 21:23:17 pm CDT
Agreed entirely Thorrn....
Bretval, Merchant 21:23:37 pm CDT
Exactly, Thorrn
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:23:39 pm CDT
ah but Master Hunter if You had not been there to hear it, would it still have made a sound? If You scream in a void do You make a sound?
Lita, Physician 21:24:48 pm CDT
Wrong, Sheadon. There is a way here for all of us to be able to read IPs, and if we can read them, we can track them. I don't do it because I can never remember how, and never need to bother. But I could if I wished.
Hunter{aura} 21:24:59 pm CDT
Sheadon I have a tracker on the D/s room that aura and I own...so we know whos playing mindgames...but its very innacurate...and causes paranoia frankly
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:25:14 pm CDT
Sheadon
Permissoon of the police is not necessray to track an IP.
When i put up an connection for My PC as server to which anyone can come and surfs on pages i made up i don´t need any allowance to track the IP addies of the visitors.
Hunter{aura} 21:26:03 pm CDT
grins .....never mind those sounds flicka answer Me about the g string
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:26:08 pm CDT
hmmm so example if I come on here to this site you could track and see where else I go on the internet?
Lita, Physician 21:27:12 pm CDT
I saw his name in the other day, Dak? Once I was told GS didn't permit thralls here, though I have not run across anything on it one way or the other on the web page. Are theyn permitted?
Bretval, Merchant 21:27:19 pm CDT
Actually there would still be the waveforms... it is the ears that consider them sounds... the deaf would not hear the falling of the tree
Hunter{aura} 21:27:53 pm CDT
Yes easily....for example in the smf forums...an admin can do exactly that...its built in
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:28:02 pm CDT
ok weird I always thought it had to do with the privacy thing I no it could be done just that it should be
Dak 21:28:17 pm CDT
well, Sandman told him to show up at slave class, I don't think He did, tho !
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:28:21 pm CDT
Sheadon
I can not, but webmaster can in some ammount
Remember most websites put cookies on your PC.
Thos YOu will have to delete resp to disable because they tell where you have been.
But with cookies being diabled many websites don´t let you go to them.
Lita, Physician 21:29:03 pm CDT
Sheadon if You go ANYWHERE on the internet, to ANY site, ANYONE can track you. Most don't know how, and most who do don't bother, but if anyone wanted to, there's nothing to stop them.
Bretval, Merchant 21:29:52 pm CDT
You can have privacy Sheadon... by not going online
Dak 21:29:55 pm CDT
there are plenty of IP tracking places online
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:30:05 pm CDT
~laughing heartily and in almost a non-seemly bondsmaidenly way, almost bratty in fact~
the g-string Master hunter? Well flicka did serve Jarl Keeper once wearing a pink furry g-string, but it flossed her bottom terribly and when she kept pulling it loose, well lets say it was not very hygenic.
~eyes widening in innocence~ Or do You mean the musician's g-string? if so flicka has no knowledge of those strings, having failed triangle playing when in kindy.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:30:08 pm CDT
Sheadon
In here normal paying members can only see the IPs of non-paying guests.
The IPs of paying mmbers are hidden .... but webbie can see them and eg ban an IP.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:31:27 pm CDT
wow.. ok My bad thought it was illegal...
Dak 21:31:29 pm CDT
n this site if you have membership it I not displayed, but I think the Webmaster can see them
Hunter{aura} 21:31:45 pm CDT
also Sheadon if you come in here as a non member...and one clicks open view page source...then your ip is shown...and can be pasted into any number of web pages including google..and up comes info....its rudimentary but unless its behind a proxy it shows the location of the isp connect
Dak 21:32:53 pm CDT
works with everything but cellphones, *smiles*
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:32:59 pm CDT
nods to Thorrn that I knew I did not think you for example could tell if I was at another Gorean site...
Lita, Physician 21:34:35 pm CDT
Dak they can trace what towers the cell phone signal is coming through and find out where it is that way.
Hunter{aura} 21:35:14 pm CDT
chuckles...actually girl one g string will not produce a chord...but kindy...now we wont go there...LOL
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:35:34 pm CDT
Sgeadon
How to do that?
I would have to run through all places and check in browsers, chats or whatever if the person with the IP od Sheadon (if´d know it) also went to another place.
Or would have to contact the webbies of the places i guess you have been and ask them about. I doubt they´d tell Me.
Dak 21:36:46 pm CDT
well, the ip you collect on this end is the closest tower , *smiles*, I had one person I had about 10 different IP's for, *smiles*
Hunter{aura} 21:37:28 pm CDT
the thing is none of that is worth much....Oone gets a feeling soon enough when actions dont correspond to words...thats the best security
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:37:37 pm CDT
To check if a certain IP is online and what is going on with that.
I think real nerds with the porpper software can do that too.
But hey, do You think one of those is on your heels?
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:37:51 pm CDT
that's My point is that not illeagel? it would take a pro hacker to do
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:38:20 pm CDT
chuckles nope I think I'm good
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:39:26 pm CDT
Sadly all we can do is hope that Free Persons have the honour to not play those games of dual channeling, and that slaves have the loyalty to their home/ Masters to not do it.
Everywhere there will be people with whom we despair as to their honour/loyalty.
Bretval, Merchant 21:39:56 pm CDT
Without IPs being logged there would be no internet... those are what make the Internet work
Hunter{aura} 21:40:18 pm CDT
bit silly for a hacker /criminal..whatever they do it for to spend all that effort and airfares to come to My house only to get a fist in the face at the door....lol
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:40:29 pm CDT
but back to the start.. whats to say I never pledged to all the other gorean sites its our word right...
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:43:06 pm CDT
flicka
I know also about some slaves dualling in here, some, not just one.
That is not a question of being a Fre eor a slave.
It is a question nof one´s character and thinking about loyality, honour and respect. Not only atitudes of Free also atitudes of slaves though according to Gor they are only animals.
One of the things where online deviates from the books and it is good that online deviates, as i think.
Hunter{aura} 21:43:27 pm CDT
ones word is ones bond....was once a maxim of life...the internet has made a new maxim for so many...I willl say what I like to get what I want
Hunter{aura} 21:44:13 pm CDT
Well said Thorrn
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:44:27 pm CDT
I think so too, Sheadon.
The word of a Man and of a WOman, whether Free or slave should be trustable in such things.
And if it got found out that the word is not trustable it is a shme for that person, no matter if Free or slave.
And it gotta have consequences.
Hunter{aura} 21:45:03 pm CDT
so does a pledge mean only gorean sites or does it include any chatrooms?
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:45:12 pm CDT
The words about slaves dualling in here didn´t refer to actual persons, it was related to past times.
Bretval, Merchant 21:45:37 pm CDT
Hear, Hear, Thorrn
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:47:05 pm CDT
Hunter
It means that persons accepts this place as home and to which place the perosns dues loyality.
It doesn´t forbid anyone to travel and see other places, chat there, make acquaintances.
TC eg is from Kobra but is also in other Cities and lives in Port KAr.
Jarls not only in Torvaldsland and so on.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:47:16 pm CDT
indeed Thorrn so you asked about loyalty and honor like I said last week about role play make us prove it... give us something to protect and defend
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:47:24 pm CDT
Yes Jarl Thorrn, it is a good thing that we deviate from the books in that aspect, for flicka would be adrift if she did not have her sense of self.
Master Hunter, a girl agrees it is the persons words/actions that will betray them. ~chuckling~ all flicka would need to do would be to use an esoteric word or two and her usual judicious placement of commas and semi colons, and all would detect her in a nano second.
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:49:45 pm CDT
agreed to Bretval I don't know of any others
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:50:38 pm CDT
Master Sheadon how to protect and defend even in role play a home that is never attacked?
This girl is a mere slave and tends to run from conflict, but perhaps in the Port Kar room some sort of role playing conflict could be enacted.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:52:17 pm CDT
Dak, good questuion *l*
But i didn´t close it formalyl yet and think the discussion is still going on on interesting things about home, loyality and such. Anybody who likes to talk about that is still welcome.
*smile*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:52:42 pm CDT
winks to karinda to curl up at My feet
*smiles*
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:53:11 pm CDT
A question if flicka may. If one "owned" a chatroom that was not Gorean could one pledge to Gorean Shores and yet still own the chatroom? Would that be disloyal?
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:53:36 pm CDT
if people are willing to role play it could be done flicka well for masters
Bretval, Merchant 21:54:51 pm CDT
Thadron and I once acted to protect the Tavern during a Festival when a Stranger came in
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:55:01 pm CDT
~evil chuckle~ maybe Master Sheadon some of we girls could role play as Panther Girls and attack You Masters of Gs.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:55:04 pm CDT
Bretval
Travelling widens the mind
I visted 2 or 3 other places and that made Me chersih this place the more.
Not that i doubted GS but knwoing is more than guessing.
It is the natural scientific in Me to explore and find facts.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:55:49 pm CDT
flicka
If the other chatroom would be goran ´too it would be illoyal ot one´s own chatroom
*l*
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:56:13 pm CDT
nods to Bretval
Bretval, Merchant 21:58:14 pm CDT
*grin* I consider My mind wide enough, these days...
*l*
Sheadon~ Pirate 21:58:49 pm CDT
hearing flicka.. that could be fun
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:59:03 pm CDT
flicka, that roleplaying thingie got discussed 1 or 2 weeks ago.
I started to extract the proposlas and ideas from that froum to bundle things or the council.
I hope to be doe nextw eek ... so there is hope *wink*
smiles and winks to My slave t curls up besiders her sister karinda at My feet.
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:00:41 pm CDT
Ah so it did Jarl Thorrn, could that idea be added please?
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:01:52 pm CDT
Sure flicka
I try to list up all those ideas and give some outline on how to do them and such.
That never ending slaving of an Advisor
*chuckles*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:04:40 pm CDT
Bretval
I had such situations too already.
People coming in, Man and Women, with causing trouble on their minds.
I haven´t even pledged to the place and did My best to protect the slaves and a FW being in, not sure yet whats is gorean actin and what not *l*
Didn´t know thta much about gorean life yet and hadn´t read any of the books.
Sheadon~ Pirate 22:05:27 pm CDT
like an assassin trying to kill one of the Captains or something
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:06:30 pm CDT
Starting with killing a Captain
You reach high in a first attempt Sheadon
*grin*
NOOOOOO ...now don´t start with Advisors to step a bit lower *LOL*
Bretval, Merchant 22:07:35 pm CDT
Well our situation was different... no problems just being cautious
lilith {GS} 22:07:37 pm CDT
*giggling*
Sheadon~ Pirate 22:08:04 pm CDT
it was an idea *L*
Hunter{aura} 22:08:45 pm CDT
never mind that battle roleplay ...I think that already happens....the slaves try to find Our weaknesses relentlessly..but We fight manfully to drink ale while they flaunt their lovelies at us and We act unaffected...*L*
Bretval, Merchant 22:09:27 pm CDT
'The word for stranger is enemy
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:10:40 pm CDT
Grins at Sheadon
I could already see Your mind working *L*
So, time to close the forum?
Anyone havint to add some really important which the world needs to know and not wait for another time?
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:11:12 pm CDT
~snort softly~ damnation we have been discovered, thank You Master Hunter for betraying our darkly held secret.
Sheadon~ Pirate 22:12:20 pm CDT
nope I'm good
Bretval, Merchant 22:13:54 pm CDT
Thanks for leading such a good Forum, Advisor Thorrn
and thanks to you for scribing flicka
Sheadon~ Pirate 22:14:33 pm CDT
nods to Thorrn... like I said I can role play chuckles
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:14:51 pm CDT
thank You Jarl Thorrn and long but very interesting Forum, one that flicka hopes will cause our home to grow ever stronger.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:15:17 pm CDT
Then I close at 5:15 am My time
Thanks flicka for all the scribing
*hugs the girl tightly*
And thanks to A/all for atking part in the discussion which started a bit slow and then made up in speed quite astonishingly about some interesting aspects of Gorean life, this home and character atitudes.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 22:16:10 pm CDT
Than You my Master, for leading what looks to have been an interesting forum...she will read the notes
thank you for scribing flicka
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:16:15 pm CDT
~gentling into the hug, relishing its warmth and strength~ A pleasure Jarl Thorrn.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:16:17 pm CDT
Nods to Shaedon
I realized that already and enjoy it.
It will make the place even more interesting and fun for all as I assume.
lilith {GS} 22:16:21 pm CDT
Thank You Jarl Thorrn for leading an interesting forum
thank you flicka for scribing
Sheadon~ Pirate 22:16:29 pm CDT
thank you for leading Thorrn
thnk you for scribing flicka
Hunter{aura} 22:16:30 pm CDT
Thanks for running the show Thornn...good job Man
Dak 22:18:13 pm CDT
Thanks Thorrn for moderating , ,
thanks flicka for scribing
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:18:53 pm CDT
Hunter
I aim to please ... that is not only a good phrase for slaves.
I think none of Us Free will not lose a stone of Our crown (german saying) when thinking about that soemtimes, maybe, a bit, eventually.
*smile*
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:19:52 pm CDT
curious. Jarl Thorrn what does it mean? " not lose a stone of Our crown"
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:21:58 pm CDT
You don´t lose any of your respect, your dignity when doing this or that which one may think is below one´s duties or level.
The king who loses a stone of His crown is a bit ridiculous and loses dignity.
Dak 22:22:01 pm CDT
something like not losing any sleep over it, *smiles*
Hunter{aura} 22:22:45 pm CDT
I am used to not spilling a drop of My crown lager.....its an aussie beer
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:22:55 pm CDT
Asian people would say ... someone lost his face.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:23:36 pm CDT
grins at Hunter.
Losing beer is losing much dignity and respect. *LOL*
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:23:37 pm CDT
ah thank You. ~smiling~ flicka is ever the curious puss, she will tuck that one away and astound Jarl Keeper with it.
But for now flicka must go and eat she is starving of the hunger.
fare well to All.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:25:23 pm CDT
Greetings and regards to your Jarl flicka
And tell Me His face expression when you use that *L*