Present:
Sandman
Ramses
Thorrn
Dak
Kazar
ShadowHawk
Lionheart
snowrose
shuri
Dak 19:58:01 pm CST
ok, I will open the Forum, same rules keep greetings an chitchat to whispers for the convenience of the scribe,
first topic:
~Those Wacky Serves~: by Marcus of Ar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thinking back to the early days of the Silk & Steel Tavern, on IRC DALnet, in 1996, I recall that the "serves" were precisely what the name entails. The slave in question would describe herself going over, getting paga or ka-la-na or whatever, and bringing it to the Free Gorean she was serving.
Over a period of time, certain Masters made it evident that they wished to be served a certain way. The slaves complied. The serves got more complex.
Then, individuals who were new to online Gorean interaction came in, saw the more complex serves, and began to emulate them, thinking that must be "how it was done."
Then, a few creative (and probably bored) slaves started to craft their own unique service styles, applying their own "spin" to how Masters were served. Some Masters responded well to this, and praised them for it.
Other slaves saw this praise, and the "service wars" began. : )
Soon, girls were running around in dozens of channels, accusing others of "stealing my serve!" and getting more complex, and more "out there" with their service, to attact attention to themselves.
So... what had begun as a simple "paga, Master?" turned into the online equivalent of a fashion show runway. The slaves were serving in strange and unique ways in order to call attention to themselves, as a means of blatant self-advertisment. This makes a certain amount of sense, after all, since so many of the individuals who log into Gorean channels to interact as "slaves" seem simply to be people who are, for some reason or other, starved for attention; either that, or they have been duped by Western Earth's media-driven society into buying into the concept of the "Cult of Celebrity," a concept which dictates that unless one is standing in the spotlight being looked upon by a group of other people, that one has somehow "failed" as a human being. Attention is craved, and behaving online in a way which constantly calls attention to one is one way to obtain it......
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:01:00 pm CST
*reads* Interesting, wonders if there is more....since she came into Gor when girls were expected to provide detailed and elaborate serves.
Ramses 20:02:05 pm CST
1996 goes back much further than My involvement here
Dak 20:02:31 pm CST
I think this is why GS has specific style of serving in the manual, and a girls style is the color she adds to the serve !
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:03:07 pm CST
that's 9 years before my time in Gor
Ramses 20:04:15 pm CST
about the same for Me, Sandman
Lita, Physician 20:04:59 pm CST
Ramses, Gor goes back a good bit further than that. Back to Dal-Net, and Irc Gor, before today's servers even existed. I don't even know how far back it goes.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:05:12 pm CST
Do seem to remember some complaints of girls accusing others of immulating their serves and not appreciating it when first came though.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:05:21 pm CST
yes Master Ramses, was just commenting on Master Marcus's assessment of us
Ramses 20:05:33 pm CST
clearly a lot further than I do, Lita
*winks*
Dak 20:05:36 pm CST
I've been around GS since 2001 never been to other sites to see how serving is done
ShadowHawk 20:07:38 pm CST
hmmmm... I recall when that happened here quite a few times... however there were a time and it were proved that a couple slaves would cut anothers serve to use down the road...
Dak 20:08:07 pm CST
I have had northern serves before a few times
Ramses 20:09:25 pm CST
ahhh, got it, snow
*winks*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:09:49 pm CST
*laughs hearing mistress snow* Yes, that was rather harsh. Never really served the way she does for attention, of course wanted to be pleasing, but when she started in Gor, girls were highly encouraged to stand out, be pleasing, explicit, and descriptive.
ShadowHawk 20:10:21 pm CST
I have been around Gor since 03, started at Alter Realm and since have been to quite a few different ones... every one has this problem and always will.. UNTIL the MEN of Gor take stand and put a stop to this type of action
Lita, Physician 20:10:41 pm CST
I know of one occasion, in another Home, where two girls from yet another ho9me took a girl's dance and used it in a dance contest as their own, and won with it! There were some very unhappy people over that!
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:11:42 pm CST
snow tries to serve each Master a in a manner she hopes will be pleasing to Him. not for attention...it really rather hard at first to go on about how pretty one is
Dak 20:12:44 pm CST
the description and the sexuality and sensuality are best descriptive things a a girl can do to add flavor and individuality to the serve ! and the positions
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:13:26 pm CST
*hears Master* Oh, was not aware that some were cutting and pasting others serves. That is extremely rude.......
Dak 20:13:44 pm CST
that is what is supposed to be in the very firs post of the serve, *smiles*
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:13:44 pm CST
snow grins at the word attention
ShadowHawk 20:14:18 pm CST
I can understand a slave being upset or angered after they have created a plausible good character in serve only to have someone else copy or mimic it.. would upset me as well....
but the serves that really get to me are the serves of slaves that serve just enough to fulfil their so called "obligations" and perform a hasty "here have it i need go over here and serve who i really want to please and be with"... have had far too many of those in the years
Dak 20:16:37 pm CST
I tell the ones I train to serve every Master as they would Me !
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:16:39 pm CST
snow was trained by shadow, who some will remember as a very lovely slave...and she said to only think of the One you are serving...during that time, that Free is your whole world. and this one tries to convey that for herself, and in training others
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:17:29 pm CST
well said snowrose
slaves aren't required to like the one they serve, but to be pleasing always
Lita, Physician 20:17:31 pm CST
*laughs* Shadow Hawk, You should try being a Free Woman sometime! *LOL* That' is all too often the only kind of serves We get!
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:19:01 pm CST
~laughs~ snow likes to serve You Mistress...she has to be a little more creative to make it interesting without the overt sex appeal
Lita, Physician 20:19:06 pm CST
Well there is more to the essay, and some of it is my favorites, and amusing as well. Can we have the rest, Dak?
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:19:08 pm CST
*grins hearing Master Sandman* Don't think Any have even been aware of who this one likes and dislikes by her serves and behavior.
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:19:19 pm CST
Smiling,, a Free Woman is one of the most challenging things to be in Gor
ShadowHawk 20:20:14 pm CST
hmmmmm.. shadow taught you that, eh rose.. then she had grown
considerably from when I were here...
Lita, Physician 20:20:27 pm CST
Exactly, snow! And you always do quite well at it!
ShadowHawk 20:21:17 pm CST
*tossing my girls hair*.. and it best stay that way girl or you will
surely find yourself feeling the end of my kurt! *goosing playfully knowing she knows how serious I am*
Lita, Physician 20:21:51 pm CST
*laughs again* Don't I know it, Captain. And I really appreciate tht I am not only tolerated here, but allowed to be a Free Woman as Free women in the books were, those Who didn't get collared, anyway!
ShadowHawk 20:22:31 pm CST
*laughs*.. I can imagine Lita..
Ramses 20:23:07 pm CST
*chuckles*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:23:17 pm CST
*grins hearing Mistress Lita* Have always served Free Women with that same care as Free Men. Minus the sex appeal of course.
*Feels His fingers messing her hair and the goose, squeaking softly in surprise and nods.* Oh, this one knows Master......this one knows.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:23:57 pm CST
shadow was a good teacher Master, always encouraging, but still expecting a lot...this one tries to be like her
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:24:28 pm CST
smiles some remember Deirdre who was My Woman ,, she was an excellent FW.. smiles even found ways to show PDA without risking a collar
Lita, Physician 20:25:24 pm CST
I wish I had had the pleasure of knowing Her, Captain. I am sure there is a lot I could have learned from Her.
Ramses 20:27:08 pm CST
I do remember her, Sandman
I hope she is doing well
ShadowHawk 20:27:10 pm CST
Deirdre was indeed a good FW, Sandman.. from what I seen and remember she had a bit of laroona and kayla as well as fiestiness of slave rolled into one.. she carried it very well indeed... *nods remembering her*
*nodding listening to snow*... good for her, I admit I had my doubts way back when... but that is good to hear.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:29:57 pm CST
ohhhh snowrose remembers Mistress Laroona.
ShadowHawk 20:32:00 pm CST
I am curious... the topic, was their a question.. or just thoughts on the remark? I noticed the post were cut off so am wondering if there were a question involved in there as well.
Dak 20:34:48 pm CST
yes, please post it, *smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:38:32 pm CST
Eventually, we kinda had to put an end to that in S&S, simply by not responding to such long-winded, ridiculous serves... ergo, discouraging them by ignoring them.
Meanwhile, in the great Gorean hinterlands of online taverns, inns, war camps, etc., many slaves continue to run around like vulos with their heads cut off, seeking the "correct way" and inventing, or copying, bizarre service rituals, appropos of nothing Gorean.
Plus, there are still online Masters who insist on being served a particular way, which is their right. Though the zillions of variations, the proponents of each of which consider to be "correct," can be damned confusing for the slaves.
Just the other day, I dropped into an IRC channel which described itself as a Gorean tavern, and while discussing a matter with the channel owner, I made the mistake of asking for a paga.
Up jumped the "star" slave of the channel, to serve me.
Let's see... I learned all about her nipples. I noticed that she moaned softly whenever she did anything. I got to see her ass peeking out from under her silks. I got to watch as she praised the Priest-Kings, danced to the three moons of Gor, held the bowl to her heart and whispered a "lil' kajira prayer" for my health and well being.
By this time, twenty minutes had passed. I had finished my conversation with the channel owner, and just sat there, silently waiting for the paga to arrive, not wanting to insult the hospitality of the channel by leaving before it reached me.
It finally did. And the slave promptly took the bowl of paga, tucked it in and among her pubes, rubbed her you-know-what all over the rim, and presented it to me with a grand flourish.
I didn't know whether to applaud or to puke, quite frankly. The girl's ID claimed she was red-silk. Who knows what else has been in her crotch lately?
I accepted the paga and told her to return to serve others, which she did with a smile.
I set the paga down on the table and thanked the channel owner for his friendly conversation. As I was about to leave, another free man messaged me and said "I notice you didn't drink the paga that slave brought to you."
I replied... "Yes. But SHE didn't notice. She doesn't CARE. She got to do her thing, and is happy as a clam about it. Where do my needs or wants fit into her agenda, or her good time? She does this for herself. Period."
I then left the channel.
I would rather have a clumsily written, badly described, three sentence serve which is typed by the earnest hands of a girl who really has my wishes and enjoyment at heart, than a slickly written serve with an accompanying brass band and fireworks from some chick who doesn't care about me, only about herself.
But... that's just me. Some guys like "slave juice" in their beverages. Some men like a table dance along with their drink. Some men don't care about anything but the floorshow.
Now, me? I don't grade on atmosphere or the floorshow. I grade on quality of service.
Which reminds me of a little haiku I wrote, a few years back:
"Nine paragraphs? Wow!
Why won't she shut up and just
Pour the damn paga?"
I wish you well!
_Marcus_
ShadowHawk 20:44:00 pm CST
"I didn't know whether to applaud or to puke, quite frankly. The girl's ID claimed she was red-silk. Who knows what else has been in her crotch lately? "
*raring back laughing heartily, trying to state among my laughs*.. amen to that, I don't know if any see but I usually have the "stale beer face" when some girls rubs it all over her pubs.. and yes, agreed.. no telling who or what has visited there lately.... *laughs heartily again entire body shaking shuri around on me lap*
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:45:11 pm CST
smiles rim sweetening has been against our rules since long before I came to GS
ShadowHawk 20:45:28 pm CST
I replied... "Yes. But SHE didn't notice. She doesn't CARE. She got to do her thing, and is happy as a clam about it. Where do my needs or wants fit into her agenda, or her good time? She does this for herself. Period." .....
HERE HERE!! *thumping chest in applause to this statement*... damn another who thinks like myself...
Lita, Physician 20:46:23 pm CST
I thought You would have some liking and respect for that Man, Shadow Hawk
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:47:16 pm CST
And therein lies the problem...a girl has to be all things to all Masters, and not all let us know their preferences. It's a fine line between a descriptive satisfying serve and being the kind of slave Master Marcus describes. what one Master will praise one night, another will express dissatisfaction the next
Lita, Physician 20:47:20 pm CST
I know, Captain. One of the reasons I wished to make this My Home. But alas, it still abounds elsewhere.
Dak 20:47:34 pm CST
well, guess that is why we have a harta serve if you want it quickly, and NO frills , *smiles*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:48:49 pm CST
*Grins, amused both at the statement and the hearty shaking of her Master's mirth, laughing as well*
This one was surprised after being in Gor a bit, having not read the books, that "sweetening" was not part of the Gorean serve as it was being trained with serving and accepted by most of the Masters. *laughs* This one just didn't know any better.
Lita, Physician 20:49:28 pm CST
True snow, but you know, that is life. You can 't please everybody all the time, despite what the books say. *chuckle*. You can only do your best, always
Dak 20:50:23 pm CST
when I first came to GS it was quite common and often done, *smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:50:46 pm CST
shuri, that it why it is always good to read the books as much as you can. There are lots of "on-line-isms" that the books never heard of.
Dak 20:51:36 pm CST
The only reason it dropped in GS was to appease the FWs
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:51:38 pm CST
*laughs softly at Master.*
*nodding head in agreement with mistress* That is why it is good we have certain rules about things like sweetening. This one sees that request very seldom anymore.
ShadowHawk 20:52:52 pm CST
aye Lita.. *wiping watered eyes from laughing so much*.. aye indeed Lita, I enjoyed the read very much and yes, can relate whole heartedly... there were one slave a long long long time ago that came to me to train.. she was one of the well thought of slaves here.. however before we both came here we went to another site.. I took her on but then reprimanded her every time she used sex as a serve instead of actually performing a serve... she told me she could not serve without 'rubbing' or "exposing" herself... so she begged to be released.. I did and she is one I have seen cut and paste another slaves well done serves... especially the ones that were praised highly...
Lita, Physician 20:53:45 pm CST
Dak, as we can see by Marcus' comments, Free Women aren't the ONLY Ones who don't care for it.
I like the line in movie I seen... It is not for Geisha to want. It is not for a Geisha to feel. Geisha is an artist of the floating world. She dances, she sings, she entertains you... What ever you want... the rest is shadows, the rest is secret.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:53:57 pm CST
*grins hearing Mistress Lita and nodding* Back then the books were hard to come by.....and this one mistakingly thought that what she was being taught was correct. *laughs*
Lita, Physician 20:55:10 pm CST
Good Point, Shadow Hawk
Dak 20:55:33 pm CST
aye, but how many Marcus's are out there, *smiles*, and GS is very lite on Masters, the old GS had an abundance of them !
ShadowHawk 20:55:34 pm CST
oh shoot Dak, it was not uncommon to see that or boots "shined" from a girls sex as well... that was some time ago tho..
Lita, Physician 20:57:08 pm CST
Thing is, Dak, are We trying to re-create the Gor of the books? Or creating a fantasy world of Our Own?
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:57:47 pm CST
*laughs* This one never saw the sweetening thing as attractive addition to a drink, but at that time it was requested by Many.
Dak 20:57:52 pm CST
aye, yes it was, but so has the masters drifted away as well! they used to teach slaves it was them that were supposed to entice Masters !
ShadowHawk 20:58:21 pm CST
oh shoot.. I need go.. rti
Dak 21:00:52 pm CST
the question in all of this how do you tell the difference between silk levels if all the slaves do a quick white silk serve !!
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:01:36 pm CST
it had already been abolished when snow arrived over 5 years ago
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:03:10 pm CST
white silk serve? snowrose has not seen yellow or red silks doing white silk serves...but if it does happen, please contact her and she will speak to the girl
LionHeart of Old 21:03:12 pm CST
By the book though silks were usually not service levels, but opened or not
Were specific kinds: pleasure, mat&kettke, etc
Lita, Physician 21:04:08 pm CST
No one expects that, Dak. But there's a fine line. There usually is with everything. My thought is if they want pure porn, there's lots of porn sites. Gor is for roleplay, albeit heavily sexual roleplay at times.
Dak 21:04:28 pm CST
well, true, but online, how do you tell the difference between them ?
Dak 21:05:31 pm CST
well, in the books, a Tavern was nothing more than a whorehouse, can you deny that ??
Lita, Physician 21:06:34 pm CST
Dak, if you watch a lot of movies from the 30s and 40s, they were extremely sensual and arousing, without one bit of openly sexual things done.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:06:52 pm CST
*nods hearing Master LionHeart* This one has been reading Kajira of Gor recently. Many different colors of silks were worn by the slaves. Even some that had....think it was talandar flowers on it? that signified a fondness of girl by her Master, and Mistresses did not like to see silks on girls.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:07:55 pm CST
snowrose is red silk, but wears teal silks, as that is her Master's choice for her.At times she has been in a sirik, no silks at all
Lita, Physician 21:07:56 pm CST
No I do not deny that, Dak. But, Taverns had alcoves and so on too. A slave can serve very sensually without one word regarding her tits or ass.
LionHeart of Old 21:08:28 pm CST
I love sexy serves, but I think the point of the essay is as much as anything show vs substance. Is the slave showing off or trying to serve. Hell 1/2 the sexy serves I see are from restricted girls that are shocked if One touches them LOL
IF ENTICE Me be ready
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:08:35 pm CST
*nods hearing Master Dak* Online the colors are used heavily, especially in the tavern to denote level of experience of the girls. But with that said, the girls are often never taught that it can be different. Though have seen personally owned girls wear different colors of silks according to the Master's pleasure.
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:09:44 pm CST
rising, sadly my time is at an end,, a good discussion
thanks to all who were here tonight
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:09:56 pm CST
this one doesn't see that describing one's body is out of place, even graphic description...men like to see the girl in their minds...but the sweetening thing was just gross, and she is happy it was before her time
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:09:58 pm CST
*grins hearing Master Dak about the Tavern.* True, which is why this one has been trying to advocate roleplay in other rooms other than the Tavern to teach others more about Gor than simple Tavern furring and serving. Also, to allow those who know more about Gor to play other aspects.
Dak 21:10:08 pm CST
well, I would never encourage to use the word tits, I always thought breasts were more appropriate ! also, the only way a slave has to display her wares is with words !
Lita, Physician 21:10:45 pm CST
Dak, I said I did not deny that they were whorehouses, what I said was even they had alcoves so that the Men didn't have to lay the girls on the table where they were eating and drinking.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:11:47 pm CST
Nods to the Green Lady, a fine line as mostly in life and also in role play.
Here it gotta be gorean porn we want *chuckles* At least in public chattings.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:12:30 pm CST
yes Master LionHeart...Master Marcus was saying that the slaves were not really serving the Masters well, but merely using them as props to show off, even to impress other slaves
Dak 21:13:11 pm CST
yes, they did, but even there it was not uncommon throw a girl over a table and use here either !
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:13:34 pm CST
LionHeart
Sucking is the topic of the moment *grin*
Lita, Physician 21:14:36 pm CST
*laughs heartily at Jarl Thorrn's Comment.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:14:46 pm CST
*giggles softly hearing Jarl Thorrn.*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:15:00 pm CST
public scening has always been encouraged...this is required to use tits and ass....she is a lowly slut, no modesty or euphemisms permitted to her
LionHeart 21:15:12 pm CST
I would argue not whorehouses. Being a slave is different than being a whore. Whore step up. Venal brothels on Gor were for FW
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:15:34 pm CST
Nods to Dak, in the goran books slaves are often used in public, especially at feastings and celebrations.
Dak 21:16:43 pm CST
aye, quit true even at Carnival,*smiles*
Dak 21:17:23 pm CST
Ok,*smiles*, I get your drift, *laughing !
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:17:28 pm CST
*little grin* Hate to say it, but has to agree that most men, especially Gorean men, wouldn't see a problem between having sex where They eat.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:18:02 pm CST
*Raises an eyebrow* Have not heard that term before. Penal brothels.....
Dak 21:18:29 pm CST
aye, shuri, and even eating while they have sex,*smiles*
Dak 21:19:24 pm CST
they had them in some of the many slave training facilities in AR
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:19:31 pm CST
*grins to Mistress Lita* Which SHOULD offend a Free Woman's sensibilities. *laughs*
LionHeart 21:19:47 pm CST
The theif (can't remember name) begs just to be sent to brothels as punishment & not enslaved
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:19:59 pm CST
LionHeart
What about coin slaves roaming through the streets with a coin box arounf their necks and trying to seduce customers to pay a tarsks bit for the use of the slave? Quite the same as a whore.
The use of the slave is according to the books mostly done in public, right on the street. Sometimes a bit in a corner but still in public.
Dak 21:21:08 pm CST
even slaves chained at rings on the streets were used in public, much to the disdain of Free Women,
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:21:24 pm CST
*grins* Remembers they did have tents for the use of slaves at Carnival.
LionHeart 21:21:59 pm CST
Thorn
I don't disagree can be used as such, but whore in the common lexicon implies some (though granted with pimps minor) CHOICE slaves lack all choice
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:22:36 pm CST
*Then remembers* There were racks for public use of slaves at Carnival as well.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:23:41 pm CST
shuri
At the en kara times in Port Kar they have rape racks , in public. Not a bit of modesty for the used slave.
Lion Heart, i remember that passage in on eof the Gorean Books where a female slave in Port KAr begs for the sentence to serve in a brothel but she gets enslaved.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:23:46 pm CST
we were just reading about that at book club shuri
And she reminds Everyone that book club will be held this Tuesday
Dak 21:24:17 pm CST
well, it I well after 9PM, I will call the Forum to a close, *smiles*
LionHeart 21:24:44 pm CST
Thorn
When she begs she is a thief/she urt
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:25:21 pm CST
LionHeart
I agree to that slaves don´t have to agree.
That is one of the nice atittudes about slaves I like a lot.
*smiles to My slave and wraps My arms tightly around her*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:25:21 pm CST
*giggles* And then we are back to the consistent, inconsistencies of John Norman and Gor.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:27:34 pm CST
*nods hearing Master Dak, noting such in the scrolls*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:31:24 pm CST
Here is an interesting......Do's and Dont's of Gor this one found online. About this that are used online, opposed to things actually used in the books.
oocities.org/goreansprings/onlinisms.html