Present:
Original Sandman
Xertog
Ramses
Dak
Lord Thorrn
Bretval
Kazar
Sheadon
Lita
natira
lilith
karinda
hulya
aurora
flicka
opium
snowrose
Dak 19:42:55 pm CDT
ok, I will open the forum, same rules as usual, keep greetings and chit chat to whispers have mercy on the scribe ,
first topic, are all familiar withthe castes system and the levels of the high castes ?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:46:09 pm CDT
and for those who are new to the forum , one of those rules is to keep greetings and chitchat to PM, so the discussion can move along smoothly
aurora 19:46:47 pm CDT
aye Master
natira{GS} 19:47:12 pm CDT
she is acquainted with the high castes and is familiar with some of the lower caste Master Dak
Bretval, Merchant 19:47:43 pm CDT
I was reveiwing them today
Dak 19:48:13 pm CDT
for those unfamiliar, they are
1. Iniates, White
2 Scribes, Blue
3. Builders, Yellow
4. Physcians, Green
5. Warriors, Red
those are the 5 high castes
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:49:35 pm CDT
each caste is associated with a color ie Physcian is green
Lita, Physician 19:50:01 pm CDT
Here are the low Castes, from Our web pages"
The Low Castes
(listed below are only a few)
Assassins Black
Woodsmen/Wood Carriers Brown & Black
Peasants Brown
Charcoal Makers Black & Gray
Tarn Keepers Gray & Green
Pot Makers Brown & Green
Leather Workers/Saddle Makers Tan
Metal Workers Steel Gray
Slavers Blue & Yellow
Merchants Gold & White
Singers/Poets Aqua & Red
Players Red & Yellow Checks
Other Low Castes
(listed below are only a few)
Animal Handlers
Drovers
Moneylenders
Sailors
Winemakers
Artisans
Entertainers
Municipal Servants
Singers
Clan of Torturers
Bakers
Fishermen
Musicians
Sleen Trainers
Butchers
Verr Keepers
Perfumers
Thieves
Cloth Workers
Guardsmen
Rence-Growers
Waste Collectors
Dress Makers
Lamplighters
Rope makers
Weavers
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:51:48 pm CDT
Lita aye ~
flicka, slave of Keeper. 19:51:54 pm CDT
how much knowledge The Priest-Kings will allow You to have is determined by the caste.
Lita, Physician 19:54:36 pm CDT
That is true, flicka
Dak 19:54:49 pm CDT
yes, ist and second knowledge
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:54:51 pm CDT
flicka if your a warrior higher red `~~ your entitled too learning and advancing ~
Xertog 19:59:47 pm CDT
Tal and greetings. Should I assume the forum is over?
Dak 20:00:59 pm CDT
no, just beginning
Dak 20:02:25 pm CDT
is there anymore to this discussion ?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:03:38 pm CDT
girl understands the Caste system Master...though does not have the lower castes memorized..
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:04:00 pm CDT
Master Dak, forgive a girl is she is out of line, but why did the Priest Kings make some knowledge available to only some of the castes? Was it only that knowledge is power?
Dak 20:04:16 pm CDT
aye, I'm not sure anyone does, *smiles*
Ramses 20:04:42 pm CDT
that's along list to memorize, snow
Dak 20:05:18 pm CDT
FIRST & SECOND KNOWLEDGE
"The caste system was socially efficient, given its openness with respect to merit, but I regarded it as somehow ethically objectionable. It was still too rigid, in my opinion, particularly with respect to the selection of rulers from the High Castes and with respect to the Double Knowledge." Tarnsman of Gor, page 45
I was also instructed in the Double Knowledge - that is, I was instructed in what the people, on the whole, believed, and then I was instructed in what the intellectuals were expected to know. Sometimes there was a surprising discrepancy between the two. For example, the population as a whole, the castes below the High Castes, were encouraged to believe that their world was a broad flat disc. Perhaps this was to discourage them from exploration or to develop in them a habit of relying on commonsense prejudices -- something of a social control device.
On the other hand, the High Castes, specifically the Warriors, Builders, Scribes, Initiates and Physicians, were told the truth in such matters, perhaps because it was thought they would eventually determine it for themselves, from observations such as the shadow of their planet on one or another of Gor's three small moons during eclipses, the phenomenon of sighting the tops of distant objects first, and the fact that certain stars could not be seen from certain geographical positions; if the planet had been flat, precisely the same set of stars would have been observable from every position on its surface.
I wondered, however, if the Second Knowledge, that of the intellectuals, might not be as carefully tailored to preclude inquiry on their level as the First Knowledge apparently was to preclude inquiry on the level of the Lower Castes. I would guess that there is a Third Knowledge, that reserved to the Priest-Kings. Tarnsman of Gor, page 41
natira{GS} 20:05:38 pm CDT
doesn't think she would ever have the lower castes and their colors memorized
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:06:14 pm CDT
flicka only availble to the higher castes scribes builders warrior's and Holly men
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:07:15 pm CDT
snow lot too memorize and then put the color to the right caste
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:07:35 pm CDT
a long list of castes and a long list of colours to memorize
I´m afraid i will fail in this *L*
aurora 20:09:14 pm CDT
many of the lower castes have not really been part of GS r/p
caste of merchants, slavers, metal workers are more common
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:09:52 pm CDT
Master Dak, withholding knowledge based on a social caste system tends to make for a static society, do You think this is what the Priest -Kings were wanting? By this there was no challenge to their overall authority ?
hulya{GS} 20:10:15 pm CDT
girl never really focused on the castes before
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:10:22 pm CDT
sigh of reliefe as i hear Lita saying We don´t have to memorize that list
hold, remembers i´m not a slave and will not be tested with such lists *chuckles*
Dak 20:11:28 pm CDT
we hear a lot of the Peasants in the books
Ramses 20:11:34 pm CDT
wouldn't it be difficut to get to take on lower caste roles in RP, though, aurora
Bretval, Merchant 20:12:10 pm CDT
knowledge is power... restrict knowledge=restrict power
Xertog 20:12:22 pm CDT
GS use to have a Thief. I don't think there is one now. A thief would add some color and would fit the Port Kar in the books.
Lita, Physician 20:13:05 pm CDT
I would think some of the lower castes might be fun to rp, but just as in real life, everybody wants to be the kin! *chuckle*n Or the princess.
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:13:18 pm CDT
exactly Master Bretval.
~chuckles at Jarl Thorrn's relief that He isn't a slave~
Lita, Physician 20:13:36 pm CDT
king even And we had for a while a she-urt, who was really good at her role.
aurora 20:13:55 pm CDT
many sub castes Master Ramses
on the hierarchy...not very important castes
and therefore probably less recognized
and boring? ~lol
Ramses 20:14:15 pm CDT
Lita, I think you are right ...*smiles*
Xertog, at least then you could be a bad boy ... or girl, as the case might be
aurora 20:14:24 pm CDT
oh and a sexy Thief He was ~grin
Ramses 20:14:58 pm CDT
aurora, that's how I fear they would be perceived ... boring
aurora 20:15:17 pm CDT
the only thief to come into GS and buy a slave...right Master Xertog?
~giggle
Lita, Physician 20:16:09 pm CDT
aurora, sometimes a "lower" role is less restricted by imperatives,. and therefore can be more fun to play around with. As with our She-Urt.
Ramses 20:17:03 pm CDT
oh I agree natira
entirely perception natira{GS} 20:16:35 pm CDT
but if some brought excitement into a lower caste they might have fun with it., its all a matter of perception
hulya{GS} 20:17:15 pm CDT
what exactly is a she urt caste Mistress?
aurora 20:17:27 pm CDT
aye...the other perspective....Mistress...indeed
Xertog 20:17:51 pm CDT
The thief did buy a girl from me. 'chuckles'
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:17:55 pm CDT
the she-urt ariel, if someone remembers her, was a lot of fun in her role
natira{GS} 20:18:13 pm CDT
~smiles~ she once was in a place that had one of the torturers cast it was...intriguing and had to make sure she steered clear of him he was...scary
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:18:55 pm CDT
Xertog, doesn´t that violate the rules of the caste of thieves, to buy something?
*l*
Ramses 20:18:58 pm CDT
*smiles as I recall ariel*
Dak 20:19:12 pm CDT
I remember ariel
Ramses 20:19:39 pm CDT
the only one I ever allowed to do backflips when she served Me
Bretval, Merchant 20:19:43 pm CDT
I knew Katrina
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:20:42 pm CDT
Katrina was also fun in her ways, Bretval
a pity she vanished too
Lita, Physician 20:21:15 pm CDT
hulya,. a she-urt is not a caste. Essentially, she is a Free Woman Who ha fallen on hard times and is homeless. She has no money so she lives along the canals, eats garbage sometimes,. often trades sex for food or money, or, in the case of Our She-Urt, She overheard information that was valuable to the Captains of Our Home, and traded that for food, and occasional staying here for warmth, and so on.
aurora 20:21:51 pm CDT
everyone loved ariel
Xertog 20:21:54 pm CDT
When I first came to GS almost 12 years ago I knew nothing of Gor. I watched a lot at first and I spoke to a person on the GS Council about a caste. I said I was thinking of being a thief. I was advised against it and was pushed to pick one of the high castes.
Ramses 20:22:38 pm CDT
exactly My earlier point Xertog
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:23:02 pm CDT
ariel was estimated a lot, she was an enslaved she-urt
A pity that her Master left and soon after that she went away too
Lita, Physician 20:23:04 pm CDT
The she-urt is constantly in danger of being collared, hulya, but regardless how dire her situation, she prefers to remain Free over being collared.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:23:59 pm CDT
ariel was a she urt?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:24:55 pm CDT
oh now girl understands ...temporary enslavement to work off a debt?
Xertog 20:25:31 pm CDT
Well Thorrn he did offer to buy her in exchange of some kalana from Cos I am sure he stole. The girl was impressive and I think I got a few silvers for her.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:26:05 pm CDT
I pondered a lot about which caste to choose before i pledged
None suited Me really perfectly and i was happy when i remembered the Jarls, that is it for Me especially as a Man from a northern region, though not directly Scandinavian
aurora 20:26:29 pm CDT
the girl was hot Master Xertog ~grin
Xertog 20:26:45 pm CDT
ariel was a she-urt for many years but she was a slave for several years too.
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:27:24 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn being from the ocean pirate suits me well ~`~
actually r/t tornoado was within 4 miles from where i grew up yesterday ~
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:29:28 pm CDT
trading a girl for a pitcher of stolen wine
That is a great deal, for a thief, Xertog *l*
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:31:28 pm CDT
ariel got enslaved to entertain her Master with her funny behaviour
Being collared is what happens easily to a she-urt
Dak 20:33:27 pm CDT
I have another topic, that might fit with this;
Technology on Gor. What is allowed, what isn't.
hulya{GS} 20:36:02 pm CDT
Only thing girl knows is that anything more advanced then middle ages type weaponry is not allowed
Lita, Physician 20:38:08 pm CDT
Yes, they were. "On the first day the Physician, a quiet man in the green garments of his Caste, examined me, thoroughly. The instruments he used, the tests he performed, the samples he required were not unlike those of Earth. Further, certain pieces of his instrumentation were clearly far from primitive. For example, there was a small machine with gauges and dials. In this he would place slides, containing drops of blood and urine, flecks of tissue, a strand of hair. with a stylus he would note readings on the machine, and on a small screen at the top of the machine, I saw, vastly enlarged, what reminded me of an image witnessed under a microscope." (Captive of Gor pg. 92-93)
aurora 20:38:38 pm CDT
especially with the stabilization serum
hulya{GS} 20:39:17 pm CDT
Oh wow
Lita, Physician 20:39:27 pm CDT
They had developed the Stabilization Serum,. and were working on a cure or Dar Kosis when there work was destroyed, some thught by the Priest Kings, but there are some indications it may have been the Initiates, fearing such a cure might undermine Their power.
Bretval, Merchant 20:39:35 pm CDT
arrows were frowned on by the warriors... so I guess no nukes
Lita, Physician 20:40:45 pm CDT
The Builder's Caste had some technology: Builder's Caste: This is one of the High Castes of Gor and third in line of importance. Their caste color is yellow and their symbol is a metal angle square. This caste includes such subcastes as Architects, Draftsmen, Stonemasons and others. In general, they are the builders and inventors of Gor. The Glass of the Builders, a telescope, is one of their inventions. They also created the energy bulb, a special type of light bulb, over a century ago. With help from the Physician's Caste, they also developed the slave goad. In general, only free men are allowed to build on Gor. Only the city of Port Kar was constructed by slaves. The Builder's Caste can also verify the authenticity of gold. Though this is an important Caste, little is told about it in the books.
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:40:58 pm CDT
a girl thinks it was the old Chivalric Principle that a warrior had to see His enemies eyes before He killed Him , otherwise it was a shameful killing. So no guns or any other missile weapons.
hulya{GS} 20:41:12 pm CDT
What is stabilization serum and what was Dar Kosis Mistress?
Dak 20:41:16 pm CDT
some warriors maybe, but they became more and more common, with all the different ways of firing them
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:41:45 pm CDT
any technique coming close to fireworks and guns isn´t allowed on Gor.
In one of the first books it is reported that a Gorean invented something like agun and immediately a flash came down and killed and extinguished Him and the weapon.
But in a later book Men from use guns quite a lot and nothing happens to them though thes really fire bullits at Goreans.
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 20:44:31 pm CDT
nods to Lita
using kinds of electric energy for peaceful intentions seems to be allowed, and the more astonishable to Me they have been developed on Gor
Lita, Physician 20:45:12 pm CDT
hulya, the Stabilizaation Serum was what re3tarded aging in goreans, so theyn lived almost forever. Dar Kosis was one of the few diseases theyn hadn't conqured, and was fatal and a very nasty disease.
hulya{GS} 20:45:56 pm CDT
Thank you Mistress
Lita, Physician 20:46:07 pm CDT
Gorean Technology: Much high technology is forbidden by the Priest Kings. No mechanized transport, communication equipment or detection gear like radar are permitted. But in the areas of lighting, shelter, agriculture techniques and medicine there are few restrictions. Violations of the technology restrictions earn you the Flame Death, where you burst spontaneously into blue flame. Here are a few items of their technology.
Reading Device: This is a metal frame with top and bottom rollers that is used to read and hold scrolls. A button is pushed to spin the scroll to its opening mark.
Translator: This machine is about the size of a portable typewriter. It is programmed for four non-Gorean languages. But, the translations are rather literal and limited to about 25,000 equivalencies. Gorean is always one of the languages in the machine. The Spider People have their own translator and the Priest-Kings have a much more advanced one.
Electric Sleeping Mat: This mat has a chronometric temperature device that can be set for hot or cold. There is also a timer on it s it can be programmed to be cold or hot at a certain time. The mat also has blanket sides.
Lita, Physician 20:46:59 pm CDT
The tarn goad is a metal rod, about two feet long, with a leather loop attached. It has a switch on the handle for on and off, and emits an electric shock in a sparkled of yellow sparks. It will hurt your flesh but won't mark it if you are hit by one. It is used primarily to control the tarn and the goad is the only thing a tarn fears. A tarn goad may also be used to direct the tarn. One hits the bird in the direction opposite to the one you wish to go. But this is imprecise and there is a danger in using the goad too much as it will become less effective. A tarn whistle, also called a tarn call, is used to call specific tarns. It has a single, shrill note and summons only one tarn. If you lose your whistle, you have basically lost your mount so they are guarded well.
slave goad: This is an item similar to a tarn goad but specifically designed for use on humans. The slave goad was created jointly by members of the Physician and Builder Castes. The Physician's Caste contributed its knowledge of the networks of nerve endings within people. The Builder's Caste contributed its knowledge of the principles and techniques used in energy bulbs. The slave goard has an on and off switch like a tarn goad. But, unlike the tarn goad, the slave goad has a dial to modify the intensity of the goad's strike. The intensity can vary from merely unpleasant to instantly lethal. When it is at its lethal setting, the end of the goad will get very hot and will be so bright as to be difficult to observe. When it strikes someone, it will emit a spray of yellow sparks. Its use is unknown in most cities and is rarely used except by professional Slavers. This is probably because these goads are said to be very expensive though an actual price is never given in the books.
The various types of goads, including the tarn, kailla and slave goads, possess technological principles similar to tasers and stun guns but they are generally not used as weapons. The tarn and kailla goads only cause pain without injury. The slave goad though can kill a person, if its dial is set to the killing point.
The various types of goads, including the tarn, kailla and slave goads, possess technological principles similar to tasers and stun guns but they are generally not used as weapons. The tarn and kailla goads only cause pain without injury. The slave goad though can kill a person, if its dial is set to the killing point.
Lita, Physician 20:47:44 pm CDT
Energy Bulbs: These are domelike bulbs that produce a clear, soft light for years without replacement. Few Goreans can afford to have them in their homes though. Few care for them anyway as Goreans prefer the light of flame, lamps, and torches. The bulbs were invented more than a century ago by the Builder's Caste.
Chronometers: These are Gorean watches and are rare on Gor. Their hands move counterclockwise and they also have a sweeping Ihn hand.
Fire Maker: This is basically a lighter. There are several varieties of this item. One of the most common is a flint-and-wheel device. It has a tiny tharlarion-oil impregnated wick and a reservoir of tharlarion oil. The wick is ignited by a spark generated from using your thumb on a small, ratcheted steel wheel that strikes a flint splinter. Other such devices use springs, pyrite, cartridges of oil-saturated moss, or other items.
1. Most of the Nest is lit by energy bulbs for the non-Priest-Kings in the Nest. Priest-Kings do not require lights.
Central Cylinder: This is the largest Cylinder in Ar, reaching over one thousand feet into the sky. It is almost a city in of itself. It is situated in the center of a circular park, among trees, vegetation and fountains. Primary entry is gained through two massive doors, wide enough for a several tharlarion to pass. The Cylinder houses the offices of many different city agencies and organizations such as the war office. It is the meeting place for the High Council of the City. In addition, it contains the living quarters of the ruler of Ar, be it Ubar or Administrator. The interior of the Cylinder varies. You may find spiraling stairways or gradients. You may find marbled floors or carpeted areas. Energy lamps are more common than torches or lanterns. There are arrow ports in certain sections of the walls. There are vast dungeons and underground passages beneath the Cylinder. The roof is round and appears to emit a blue light from beneath it. In the center of the roof is a low, round platform, where the Home Stone of Ar is kept. Though it appears to be left in the open, it is well guarded. The Home Stones of the Twelve Tributary Cities are also kept in this Cylinder.
Lita, Physician 20:48:20 pm CDT
Curulean: This is the most prestigious slave auction house in all of the city. From the outside, it resembles several tiers of disks, surrounded by a circling portico with lofty fluted columns. It is covered by a domed ceiling with metal, shuttered vents that slaves can open to allow in air. Inside, there is a tiered amphitheater, with a background color of red. Around the interior walls and on the floor are numerous mosaics depicting a variety of scenes, stories and events connected with the institution of slavery. These includes scenes of hunting, capture, enslavement, training, sale, dance, and submission. One series of mosaics depicts a slave raid from the initial planning phases to the successful return on tarn by the Slavers. The series continues through the registration and training of these girls and on to their auction at the Curulean. Finally, the series presents a hypothetical history of these slaves who have now find happiness with their masters. The area is lit by energy bulbs. There are special seats set aside for important personages. During an auction, vendors of food and drinks will pass through the tiers and musicians will play music. There is a strongly barred gate at the rear of the Curulean for deliveries. The Curulean also contains many other different rooms and offices such as for medical exams, facilities to wash slaves, the offices of market officials, rooms containing slavery supplies and more. The slaves are kept in underground, holding cells. There are also exposition cells where the public can view the merchandise for sale that day.
The central feature of the Curulean is its great auction block. This central, semicircular block is about fifteen feet high and forty feet in diameter. A set of stairs lead to the top of the block that is commonly covered with sawdust, out of tradition. The block is painted blue and yellow, the caste colors of the Slavers, and ornately carved. The carving, painted white, shows the figures of nine slave girls. They represent the legendary first nine girls that were ever enslaved when Ar was but a small village many thousands of years ago. As the girls have rope collars, it is claimed that Ar did possess the skills of metal working at that time. It is also part of the legend that these slaves were forced to breed sons for the men of Ar. This seems unusual in that Goreans rarely breed with their slaves as the offspring of a slave is commonly considered a slave. When a girl is sold on this block, most of the energy bulbs, except the ones directed at the block, will be dimmed or shut off.
Xertog 20:48:54 pm CDT
When I was the Senior Captain at GS we had a man that started to build a ship that was powered by steam. I put a stop to it. No need to piss off the Priest Kings. lol
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:49:26 pm CDT
are slaves permitted to use the fire-maker Mistress?
natira{GS} 20:49:29 pm CDT
shudders to think what the Priest Kings would do for that~
Lita, Physician 20:49:47 pm CDT
So the technology available was not always limited ton the Priest Kings or the Green Caste.
Lita, Physician 20:51:07 pm CDT
I would not think that slaves would be permitted to use the fire maker, snow. I never saw one in the books using one.
Lita, Physician 20:51:35 pm CDT
What technological items there were seemed to be limited to the rich.
hulya{GS} 20:52:55 pm CDT
Wow, that's a lot of neat items Mistress, except for the slave goad *shivers at the very idea, now knowing what it is capable of*
Lita, Physician 20:53:21 pm CDT
you slaves might wish to take particular note of the existance of the slave goad. And that, in the books, was often carried by First or Second girls!
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:55:08 pm CDT
~looks at our gentle first girl and smiles~
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:55:18 pm CDT
uh, snow misplaced it Mistress...she will have to look for it...bet these girls hid it
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:56:08 pm CDT
just kidding, they would never do that
natira{GS} 20:56:10 pm CDT
natira would never hide the slave goad. she would end up zapping herself with it if she even tried ~laughs~
hulya{GS} 20:56:38 pm CDT
*looks over at mistress snow cautiously*
flicka, slave of Keeper. 20:56:42 pm CDT
~innocently whistling Dixie~ not this girl mistress snowrose.
Lita, Physician 20:58:57 pm CDT
First girls did what they had to to keep order. Otherwise their position, and perhaps even their lives, might be forfeit. Therre was one scene wher a Master asked his first girl about a new slave, and she told Him the girl displeased her. He asked if she whipped the girl, and she said yes. He said, "Good. Discipline must be kept within the tent"
Dak 20:59:20 pm CDT
it there is nothing more, it is 9RM, I will close the Forum
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:00:12 pm CDT
yes Mistress...snowrose does punish...
Lita, Physician 21:01:11 pm CDT
I know you do, snow. I wanted the girls to know how good they have it with you! *S*
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:01:52 pm CDT
Dak thanks for leading forum
Jarl Thorrn enjoys roses 21:01:58 pm CDT
discipline has to be kept up, that is one of the tasks of a first girl