Present:
Ramses
Kazar
Dak
ShadowHawk
Lita
shareen
shuri
karma
snowrose
flicka
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:44:18 pm CDT
ok I am going to call Forum to order
the usual rules apply ..keep chatter to a minimum for flicka's sake
and whisper Me any topics
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:49:20 pm CDT
Ok ... our first topic:
I had to cull this out of a very large offering! *grins to Hawk*
"The major point of the restraint is to restrain not hurt. Indeed, pain can interfere with many of the diverse subsidiary values of restraints, physical and psychological. It can be distractive. Pain is a bit like the whip. The slave is subject to the whip, and truly subject to it, but this does not mean that she is necessarily whipped; that she could be whipped, and will be whipped, if she is not pleasing, is what is important, not that she need be whipped. Why should one beat a pleasing slave?"
Renegades of Gor - Page 327
"Perhaps it should only be added that the Gorean Master, though strict, is seldom cruel. The girl knows, if she pleases him, her lot will be an easy one. She will almost never encountered sadism or wanton cruelty, for the psychological environment that tends to breed these diseases is largely absent from Gor. This does not mean that she will not expect to be beaten if she disobeys, or fails to please her Master."
Outlaw of Gor - Page 53
"We make excellent slaves, perhaps in part, at least at the beginning, because we know we will be whipped if we are not. And to be sure, even later, if we are not fully pleasing, we know we will be whipped. We are, after all, slaves. But do not misunderstand such things. Gorean men, while demanding and severe, are seldom cruel. It is not in their nature. That sort of thing, I think, is more common on Earth, where, unfortunately, I fear that some males, hopefully few, see women less as wondrous and delicious properties, less as fascinating, attractive, beautiful, desirable domestic animals, less as possessions to be sought, owned, relished, celebrated, treasured, and mastered, than as something alien to be hurt, oddly enough, incomprehensibly, for one's pleasure. Whatever this may be, or its explanation, it is not Gorean. The Gorean master seldom, if ever, inflicts gratuitous pain. What would be the point of it? Similarly he would not abuse children, torture small animals, or such. Goreans would simply not understand such things. If they did understand them, they would doubtless account them offenses against honor.
To be sure, the slave may be whipped for any reason, or for no reason. This comprehension helps her understand that she is a slave. It adds a flavor to her existence."
Prize of Gor - Pages 713 - 714 "Blood ran from my mouth; other blood I swallowed. My vision cleared; I could not believe the pounding of my heart. I had been cuffed. I knelt, terrified. At that time I did not realize how light had been my discipline considering the gravity of my offense. I had both spoken without permission, and broken position without permission. Most simply, I had been displeasing to a free man."
Slave Girl of Gor - Page 34
Questions
1) Is Gor all about D/s? Why do you think people think it is or isn't?
2) Why do you feel Gorean slaves are or are not masochists?
3) Free: What is the difference between discipline and punishment? Slaves: What does discipline and punishment mean to you?
4) What do you do when a punishment occurs and you feel it was/is unwarranted, too harsh, or just pure cruelty?
ShadowHawk 19:50:32 pm CDT
*slaps my thigh, bellowing out in laughter entire body rocking*.. aw Brother, it were a good 'un!
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:51:36 pm CDT
*chuckles*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 19:52:37 pm CDT
. . . still reading . . .
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:54:05 pm CDT
this is an interesting topic to Me
I've often wondered if slaves were masochists thinking that some are but not all
shuri {ShadowHawk} 19:56:45 pm CDT
*hears Master Ramses* This one is definitely NOT a masochist.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 19:57:02 pm CDT
Gor and D/s .... and the whip and pain and discipline and punishment
Gor is about Domination and submission - without any doubt.
But Domination can be done in many ways and the submisison can be down in many ways without any of them needing to inflict physical pain or any whip or such ... Dominatiuon is a thing of th emind like submisison is state of the mind.
The rest which comes with this can be ice on the cake and lots of pleasure - or pain or both but it is only addiotional.
- all imho
Lita, Physician 19:57:07 pm CDT
I would say at least theoretically, Gorean slaves were not. Simply because had they constantly misbehaved to bring punishment upon themselves, they would soon have been killed, as not worth dealing with,.
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 19:57:51 pm CDT
karma feels, that while she is also in a D/s relationship, her punishments in Gor are just as painful as the most pain she could get from a physical object...however in Gor she tries to be pleasing....strives to be pleasing...will go out of her way to be pleasing...so that her failures are the worse part of her punishment...and karma would think that cuts deeper into her heart than any flogger could ever do
Lita, Physician 19:58:16 pm CDT
And, of course, on Gor, pain is never inflicted for the pleasure of either party involved.
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:58:32 pm CDT
~boggling a little, grave eyes turning to Master ShadowHawk.~
Q1. well Gor is not vanilla, nor is it a Matriachy, it is about Dominance and submission.
Q2. A girl would suppose that some Gorean slaves are masochists, flicka is not, she cringes from pain in all its manifestations.
Q3. Discipline is what flicka lives under all the time, the discipline of her Jarl and ergo the discipline that all Free Persons subject her to. Punishment is when she fails, and needs to be chastised.
Q4. No flicka has never been subjected to any punishment she felt was too harsh of cruel. How can any punishment be unwarranted when a Master is always right?
Dak 19:58:38 pm CDT
the difference between disciplne and punishment, to Me, is discipline is what teaches one to think about actions before doing, to prevent punishment !
ShadowHawk 19:58:52 pm CDT
1) Is Gor all about D/s? Why do you think people think it is or isn't?
Not only NO, but HELL no!!
2) Why do you feel Gorean slaves are or are not masochists?
slaves are not masochists, they are competitive.. if taking a beating means they will be found pleasing in the eyes of their Master then so be it...
3) Free: What is the difference between discipline and punishment?
Discipline is teaching, where as punishment is just that.. punishment, no instruction mentoring or advising given.
Slaves: What does discipline and punishment mean to you?
NOT a clue, no slavey here.. *holding or rather trying hold wrist limp like then having use other hand to bend it down.. nope, not gonna work, no slavey here*
4) What do you do when a punishment occurs and you feel it was/is unwarranted, too harsh, or just pure cruelty?
If I feel a punishment warranted, I don't know.. *nudging shur*.. is a kurt or whip too harsh or cruel? I would think cruel is just chopping ones head off or feeding to the sleens. LOL.. besides, among the Alars it were NOT the Men that the slaves needed worry about.. *eyeing Lita*.. but more the Women!!!
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:58:54 pm CDT
nodding to Lita
but then I think that might be the difference between Gor and online Gor roleplay
not all slave are masochistic but I have known more than a few who were
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:00:00 pm CDT
*smiles at the discussion*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:00:26 pm CDT
This one found this statement to be particularly interesting.
"She will almost never encountered sadism or wanton cruelty, for the psychological environment that tends to breed these diseases is largely absent from Gor."
But of course, if the Master is a Sadist, that is going to come out regardless.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:00:49 pm CDT
Using the whip to put on a slave is soemthing which slaves ask for in several books. Also in the KAjira of Gor which is read right now in book club.
The slaves don´t ask for it becaus ethey enjoy the pain or they are masochists - they want it to feel that their Master is their Master totally, unrestrcitzed and can do with them whateve rHe wants to do. And they want to be submisisve in that way and be His property so unlimited.
ShadowHawk 20:00:51 pm CDT
Gor is not about domination or submission.. submission is a decision, slaves have no means or capability to make a decision, Gor is complete and total power exchange, which the slaves agree to or don't come role play.. simple as that.
Lita, Physician 20:01:04 pm CDT
That is quite possible, Captain Ramses I have not had to deal with any of those thank goodness.
Qazir 20:01:36 pm CDT
shadow what are you saying hell no too?
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:01:42 pm CDT
Nods to Hawk in agreement
Lita, Physician 20:03:35 pm CDT
shuri, there might be a few Gorean Masters on-line Who are sadists, but I never once in the books ran across a Master Who could be cvlassified as one.
ShadowHawk 20:03:56 pm CDT
That Gor is not D/s, I say again. Not just no, but HELL NO!
ShadowHawk 20:04:11 pm CDT
oops.. typo.. that Gor is D/s... yada yada yada. lol
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:04:30 pm CDT
again .. some of the difference between online and the books, Lita
always good to keep the difference in mind
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:05:36 pm CDT
*Smiles softly* No, a kurt or whip is not to hard a punishment. Plus, while a Master might physically punish a slave, He would not want to scar or disfigure her and lessen her value.
*Eyes wide and nodding vigorously about the Alars FW's enjoying whipping slaves.*
Qazir 20:06:29 pm CDT
oh good grief this is embarrassing that ok I will address this in a second to clear this up about D/s
ShadowHawk 20:06:49 pm CDT
I am curious.. we talk about whipping and such, pain by that means.. does anybody recall in the book 9, Marauders of Gor.. a slave were made to change her mind by tying her naked body to a block of ice.... can be painful but not due to means of whipping or flogging and she were left alone there to think on it... now if that is not Sadism.. well I am all for that! *winking to nudging shuri, sadistically chuckling*
Lita, Physician 20:06:53 pm CDT
True Ramses, though as an unashamed Book Nazi, I contend there should be as little difference between Book Gor and On-Line Gor as is humanly possible.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:08:21 pm CDT
Gor is not about Domination and submission (taht is what D/s stands for)??????
Looks very astonished and checks the room name resp the name of the chat places.
AM i still in Port Kar of Gorean Shores?
Slaves are alsways forced to submit and Man dominate them in Gr ... not the mutual way of the Dungeon but the strict way of Gor.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:08:49 pm CDT
*chuckles*
while I agree, on all points Lita, we will always be dealing with the differences
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:08:58 pm CDT
*Nods to Mistress Lita* That is what this one is saying. Since we are not really raised on Gor, there are Masters, and even slaves that bring a certain mindset to their Gorean character and it bleeds through in how they conduct themselves.
Lita, Physician 20:09:41 pm CDT
shuri, I think the pleasure the Alar Free Women derived from whipping slaves was not the same sort of pleasure and the kind referred to between a D/s submissive and her Master. In other words, not a sexual pleasure.
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:10:13 pm CDT
well...just so we all know...karma likes pain as far as her D/s relationship goes...but as far as Gor goes she hates failure...that to her is a serious punishment and one that is far reaching then pain
ShadowHawk 20:10:30 pm CDT
My Friend Thorrn, slaves are not made, per say, to do anything.. they do it or not... if not then so be it, ciao! They are taught from moment one to please, it is not a decision but reaction to their training.. there is no force.. whether I bark or whisper for shuri to heel, she heels, simple as that.. no choice no thought just jumps to please and NEEDS to be found pleasing... that is not forced submission, but her place
Qazir 20:10:43 pm CDT
can I clear some stuff about D/s so that it is not commonly miss stated in these forums
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:11:09 pm CDT
Well the way flicka sees it is this: Gorean Masters are Dominant, so first part of D/s solved.
Gorean slaves are not dominant, nor are they equal therefore they must be submissive, a girl thinks it is semantics to say that "submissive" refers only to those in a Non Gorean D/s relationship.
Dictionary meaning of the word:
sub·mis·sive (sb-msv)
adj.
Inclined or willing to submit.
sub·missive·ly adv.
sub·missive·ness n.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
This describes flicka.
Qazir 20:12:01 pm CDT
you all are talking in circles you do understand that D/s and masicism are 2 different things
ShadowHawk 20:12:13 pm CDT
Actually the Alar Women did not whip, they just killed.. for a simple reason that a slave is far too beautiful. The Alar women are from the north and outdoors, hence they are very hefty! *grins*.. so if a slave that is just to beautiful, they outright cut her throat off and give no rhyme or reason.. WHICH is why there are very few slaves in an Alar camp, everybody does the work.. there is no such thing as slave work and free work, for the Lagaar to work, everybody chips in
Qazir 20:13:10 pm CDT
and being subservient in Gor is also a choice a slave can kill themselves if they dont wish to be slaves... and in role play get real they choose freely how to play
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:14:18 pm CDT
*nods to Mistress Lita* Definitely not sexual with the Alars FW, but didn't mean it was. The books say They enjoy it because secretly they envy the position of the slave girls. Which we all know how John Norman is about that whole subject.
Lita, Physician 20:14:19 pm CDT
flicka, you first definition is "inclined or willing to submit". Which is D/s. However, on Gor it mnakes no difference whether the slave is "willing" or not. Most of the time, at least at first, the "submission" was NOT willing. Tht is the crux of the difference
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:14:32 pm CDT
*chuckles*
another reality of on-line Gor, Qazir?
ShadowHawk 20:14:56 pm CDT
aye, I do Qazir and if this topic is your doing... I applaud you, this is a great topic and is much like one of religion or politics... the end means is what this sight, this room.. *extending arms out*.. all of us come to terms on within GS to role play something we are fond of
Lita, Physician 20:15:44 pm CDT
Qazir. no, a slave CAN NOT kill themselves. They do not even own their own lives, so those lives are not theirs to dispose of. By the books.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:15:52 pm CDT
Jarl Qazir, flicka does, which is why she has taken much care in referring only to D/s.
Sado/masochism is an entirely different situation, often linked with D/s but not necessarily determinant on it.
Qazir 20:16:42 pm CDT
correction Lita when someone gets beat and broken they then in gor are "willing to submit"
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:17:45 pm CDT
yes my Master. ~Eyes lowered in willing submission, though she knows the word willing is irrelevant. This is Gor
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:17:53 pm CDT
Looks over to Lita
It is not only the slave shwo get NOT asked in Gor whether they agree to be collared. In each of the book there are also FW who get collared without being asked for Their consense *grin*
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:17:56 pm CDT
Ah Mistress Lita, flicka thought we were talking reality, not fiction. And yes therefore You are correct, in the books there is no choice, in Gorean Shores or as in the case for flicka, real life, there is/was a choice.
Qazir 20:17:57 pm CDT
flicka I notice you use the terms correctly good girl
Lita, Physician 20:18:17 pm CDT
Qazir, they may submit. However, their willingness or lack thereof has no bearing. They are slaves regardless.
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:18:38 pm CDT
karma will disagree with that Mistress...yes a slave doesn't own there own bodies but the have intelligence and can make a decision to jump in a sleen pit without first begging permission...its suicide
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:18:40 pm CDT
Qazir, is that really "willing"?
huri {ShadowHawk} 20:18:57 pm CDT
flicka: And as it says by definition, submissives CHOOSE to submit. What Master is saying, is that in Gor, by it's very lifestyle slaves really have no choice. They either submit and have a very hard life, or die.
For a submissive in D/s, and this one has walked both lines, they CHOOSE to submit, by the very nature of our society. By the nature of Gor society, slaves have no real choice.
Lita, Physician 20:19:22 pm CDT
flicka, I agree. However, as I said before, it is my contention that in Gorean role-play there should be as little difference from the books as is humanly possible.
Qazir 20:19:53 pm CDT
even if someone claims to own your life you can not trump God's free will a slave can make a mistake and take their own life and than the Jarl can take it up with the powers that be for the slave to return that life
Qazir 20:21:00 pm CDT
yes Ramses it is a will to resist or submit it is their choice
ShadowHawk 20:21:20 pm CDT
Agreed Lita.. completely agree!
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:22:07 pm CDT
*chuckles*
I think we are getting into the realm of semantics Qazir ...
Qazir 20:23:04 pm CDT
subservient or voluntary submision you still have the "s" so D/s is satisfied in Gor accept the truth next question ....
Lita, Physician 20:23:07 pm CDT
But, slaves could not do that in the books karma. And the one time I saw a slave do that on-line, her "suicide" was not accepted. First off, the idiot girl leved in Schendi, a jungle territory. she said she went out into the garden and picked a kana leaf and ate it, and said she died. In the first place, kanda only grows in arid territories. Second, it is the root of the kanda plant that is poison, not the leaf, so she couldn't die from eating the leaf. And third, she had no permission to pick or eat the kanda leaf.
Qazir 20:24:16 pm CDT
people who claim that Gor is not D/s make themselves look ignorant really end of story
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:24:23 pm CDT
shuri, flicka has never been in a "normal" D/s relationship, but has come to understand that the submission is "negotiated" each encounter, whereas in a Gorean relationship, the agreement to submit is given once and once only, once the steel is around a girl's throat she is slave forever.
Lita, Physician 20:24:43 pm CDT
So, the suicide was ruled invalid
Lita, Physician 20:26:39 pm CDT
Qazir, people who claim that Gor is just like D/s, opr just a form of D/s make themselves look ignorant.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:27:06 pm CDT
*smiles and nods to flicka* That is true sister.....
Qazir 20:27:39 pm CDT
to regect ones suicide on the grounds that she did not have permission is silly was there someone to stop her from eating the leaf ? they would have had to role play the encounter to foil her plans... if jarls had that much control they why would they ever need to whip anyone just because it is not mentioned in the book I think it has to flow logicaly unless your saying Gorean slave lack the hormons to even be able to do such a thing
ShadowHawk 20:27:40 pm CDT
alright.. I would like to get this explained a bit better..
ARE we talking about Gor as Gor should be or what?
Because according to books, Gor is nothing like D/s BDSM or any of that, I have been a part of both. Gor is fantasy, pure and simple, however one that I "role play", so yes I RP by the books as best I can.. I do not say or think.. well this is not real time so I won't make you bend yourself like a pretzel flicka... .or tell you karma to to stand on one foot and jump on down on your bad one because in real time you cannot..
so why are we arguing or debating about the likes between real time and role play? SHOOT, even DM is not real time and from what I seen there the BDSM is disneyland type stuff compared to what me and my friends do at our play parties....
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:28:08 pm CDT
karma is only speaking from an online death...if a girl wanted her character deleted then all she'd need do is beg that from any Master...that or do something unforgivable like take a weapon and steal a coin box from someone....girl knows whena slave steals they chop off her foot...girl would suspect if the crime were bad enough they'd lop off her head
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:28:13 pm CDT
flicka aye
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:28:23 pm CDT
from what snow has read of D/s, it is really the submissive who has control...she grants the Dom permission to do certain things, has a safe word that ends the activity if she doesn't like it...she sets the rules...a very different situation than Gor...
Qazir 20:28:36 pm CDT
never said it is Just like D/s it is a form of D/s Lita
Dak 20:29:13 pm CDT
it is the brand on he thigh that signifies she is slave forever, the stell just signifies her owner, and her slavery is what encircles her heart !
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:30:10 pm CDT
~nods to Master Dak~ yes Master Dak, You are correct it is the brand. ~smiles~
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:30:27 pm CDT
and while both are forms of D/s
i think that is exactly what defines the difference, snow
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:30:42 pm CDT
Well saying a slave cannot kill themselves because it is not allowed is a little silly. Once she is dead, what are You going to do to her really. Though can understand that a slave girl would be raised psychologically to not even consider such a thing.
ShadowHawk 20:30:43 pm CDT
exactly snow,.. THAT is very correct, it IS exactly how it goes... the power is in the submissive who gives permission and has the means to stop what she is afraid of or just does not like..
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:30:57 pm CDT
Reads the details of the Phyiscian about kanda leaves and roots and slaves. Learns from the first 2 points and chuckles about the 3rd pont. So the slave couldn´t be dead because she had no allowance to eat the kanda ... very interesting logic.
Qazir 20:33:43 pm CDT
ok lets not let the disneyland version of D/s rein supreme
Qazir 20:34:02 pm CDT
not exactly snowrose but there are some who have that view but than they are not living the truest form of BDSM
Lita, Physician 20:34:07 pm CDT
No, Jarl Thorrn, she couldn't be dead because a kanda leaf won't kill you. she could, however, be severely punished for taking and eating that leaf without permission, and that is assuming it existed, which it cannot have, because kanda doesn't grow in jungle climates and shed said she picked it from the garden.
Qazir 20:35:22 pm CDT
maybe she planted it herself and put a protective coating so it wouldnt die
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:35:33 pm CDT
ok, I think we are about ready to wrap this topic up
any more last thoughts?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:35:40 pm CDT
~chuckling ~ flicka is in a D/s relationship.
Dominant/slave, her Jarl is the Dominant, she is His slave, end of story, she has no power or control over Him.
In the online Gorean context she could have "chosen" to be a Free Woman, in which case unless she did something to warrant it she would not be in a D/s relationship.
Qazir 20:35:41 pm CDT
Lita what leaf are you smoking
Qazir 20:36:40 pm CDT
Power to the D and a slap to the s
Lita, Physician 20:36:43 pm CDT
shuri, she can either return as a slave and accept her punishment, or never return to that Gorean site again.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:37:38 pm CDT
its sounds to Me as though she did not want to return anyway, Lita
ShadowHawk 20:37:58 pm CDT
KEWL, time for my topic now Ramses? *hearty bellowing laugh again, slapping at my thigh, nudging shuri*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:37:59 pm CDT
But Master has a point. Are we talking about the way Gor should be as roleplayed by the books, or the way it tends to get roleplayed online.
Which brings up a second point. If we are agreeing that Gor is roleplay then it is totally different than "real life" BDSM. This one thinks we all agree that Gor, by the books, is about impossible to adhere to strictly in today's society.
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:37:59 pm CDT
snow...karma cant agree with the last post....if a submissive has all the pull in D/s what makes you think she would have all the pull in a TPE relationship which is what slavery falls under..
karma has no pull in her relationship with her Jarl....she may walk away when she wants as she's not held against her will...but she has no pull or say so...she can say what she wants but its in a respectful fassion...if not she gets punished
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:38:19 pm CDT
ok .. another topic? whisper to Me
Qazir 20:38:31 pm CDT
or she could accept punishment and kill herself right next time with the approval of the counsel or since she tried to die that character didnt see her coming back anyway she could get a new nic and come back a FW
Lita, Physician 20:39:15 pm CDT
Perhaps not, Captain. I suspected at the time, however, that she was trying to wriggle her way out of the collar she was in, and return as Free and become an FC to Another she preferred.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:40:22 pm CDT
*Grins and laughs softly at her Master.*
Lita, Physician 20:40:29 pm CDT
Qazir, at that site, they had the ability to ban a person by their IP#, do regardless what name she might choose to come back as, she could not return,
Qazir 20:40:48 pm CDT
take a hit of that bud Lita and Pass ....Puff puff Pass
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:40:58 pm CDT
snow is just saying what she has read on many sites...that there are safe words etc..of course every relationship is unique, but the safe word is a reality in many of them...and many of the submissives are women who enjoy, or actually need, the pain to reach satisfaction.
That doesn't mean it's true in all cases
Qazir 20:41:20 pm CDT
like she could not get a new IP address
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:41:55 pm CDT
what is TPE
Qazir 20:42:12 pm CDT
a safe word is not about control it is more a form of communication
Qazir 20:42:34 pm CDT
Total Power exchange
ShadowHawk 20:42:36 pm CDT
snow.. *leans to whisper*.. Total Power Exchange
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:43:39 pm CDT
*chuckles as I sit back listening*
Lita, Physician 20:43:43 pm CDT
She could, Qazir. But to do that she'd need to get a new internet server which would be a bit of a nuisance to do
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:44:14 pm CDT
*Chuckles at Master Qazir.*
Qazir 20:44:46 pm CDT
where there is a will there is a way Lita
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:45:01 pm CDT
Oh. Thank You Master ShadowHawk..
Lita, Physician 20:46:51 pm CDT
Not if one is an honorable person, Qazir, and theoretically at least, Goreans are supposed to be honorable. Though in that case she might well have been dishonorable enough to do just that.
ShadowHawk 20:47:00 pm CDT
*leans to whisper to Ramses*
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:47:39 pm CDT
ok ...
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:48:00 pm CDT
fans her face waiting to the subject to change
Qazir 20:49:14 pm CDT
Honor is very rare indeed only met a few and with rp and people hiding behind a screen it is easy to deny any sense of honor
ShadowHawk 20:49:30 pm CDT
*smiles and winks to snow*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:49:57 pm CDT
looks at karma ... whisper a topic to the Captain to change the subject *S*
Lita, Physician 20:50:10 pm CDT
You are correct there, Qazir
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:50:20 pm CDT
flicka just doesn't see the difference, she submits to her Jarl's will. He dominates her. She obeys Him.
He is not brutal she is not a pain slut.
He will punish when needed, she will accept the punishment because she is His slave. Is this not Total Power Exchange. He holds all of the power, flicka holds none.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:50:45 pm CDT
*Hears Lita* Most Goreans do live by an honorable code, but in the books, even even the main character failed when He chose to become a slave over dying.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:51:36 pm CDT
*grins*
My time for tonight has expired Thorrn
I am turning the balance of Forum over to you
Lita, Physician 20:52:09 pm CDT
flicka, does not the term "exchange" imply a two-way street? If the Dominant gets all the power, what does the submissive get in the "exchange"?
ShadowHawk 20:52:27 pm CDT
flicka if you had read what I said.. I stated that very thing, Gor is TPE.. not about submission.. you do so because you were born to do so and only to Keeper.. you could not help that any more than you can help when it is time to visit the bathroom, it is going to be! THAT is and had been my point all along.... there is no submission...
Lita, Physician 20:53:18 pm CDT
That is true, shuri, and that is why He took the name "Bosk" when He finally got away, as He felt He could not honorably carry His former name.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:53:28 pm CDT
flicka: No matter what, there is always a disagreement of what the definition of things are in BDSM and Gor. This one has come to realize over the years that everyone sees them in the context of their own life and enjoyment. So one will never get the same answer from everyone.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:54:16 pm CDT
flicka, the relationships in DM and other D/s places are often different. They are more based on a mutual and negotiated form of the relationship, how the details are, what is allowed to do what is a no-go etc are discussed by Master and sub. And many, mnay od the subs in BDSM are painsluts ... not that this is a bad thing.
Qazir 20:54:35 pm CDT
shadow I am not sure you understand TPE or submission your terminoligy is all over the place
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:54:42 pm CDT
Mistress flicka gets much in exchange, but not tangibles, she gets, as Master ShadowHawk says, the fulfillment of her destiny. She gets to become a full and rounded person, blissfully happy with her life.
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:54:53 pm CDT
the submissive gets taking care of
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:55:10 pm CDT
sorry Mistress Lita
ShadowHawk 20:55:17 pm CDT
exactly shuri, that goes with anything, why I always use the phrase.. Apples and Oranges when it comes to what or how someone sees something that a great number of people participate in...
Lita, Physician 20:56:03 pm CDT
sorry, karma? why?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:56:51 pm CDT
shuri, ~low laugh~ that is perhaps the wisest thing that has been said all night.
We all have our own interpretation on life, the universe and everything.
~winking at Mistress Lita~ flicka also never has to panic ~chuckling~ Jarl Keeper always carries the towel.
ShadowHawk 20:57:07 pm CDT
Qazir, I understand both as they are... do you understand the difference between role playing Gor and participating in BDSM rt? I know where the line is drawn and THAT my friend is exactly where I stand and stay!
I will never put a pillow down for a slave to kneel on here at GS or any Gorean sight, however in the Dungeon or DM or any other BDSM setting I will nod for closest one for subbie to pull up.
I am and have always been a part of both but do not bring one to the other!.. EVER!!!
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 20:58:01 pm CDT
A whispered topic:
what are the most vishous of slave punishments on gor?
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 20:58:16 pm CDT
Mistress You asked what a submissive gets out of a TPE relationship...one thing is that...for me Im taken care of...my worries fall in my Jarls lap...that's just one of the many
ShadowHawk 20:58:35 pm CDT
and my friend Qazir, I would appreciate it if you would upper case my name here, I do not take to kindly to your disrespecting me here this night!
shuri {ShadowHawk} 20:58:49 pm CDT
*giggles hearing flicka's references to Guide to the Galaxy.*
ShadowHawk 20:59:41 pm CDT
ahhhh.. bag it, I have real time pulling at me.. Blessed Be all!
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:00:05 pm CDT
Master ShadowHawk, flicka doesn't need a pillow to kneel on in GS.
~eyes sparkling with devilment~ But in the home of her and her Jarl, three pillows are barely enough and sometimes flicka topples off, to much merriment by both.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:00:22 pm CDT
Grins @ flicka
It is important to always have a dry towel when travelling through the universe *wink*
ShadowHawk 21:00:55 pm CDT
flicka in spite of your humor and sense to try and calm me down.. you do know the difference and EXACTLY what I mean! be well girl.. *nods then fades*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:01:09 pm CDT
*Hears the new topic and replies* Death would have to be the most severe.....
Qazir 21:01:24 pm CDT
I am mutitasking and if my hand slips and does not hit the capital key do not take it as an insult ... if I was going to intentionaly disrespect you I would leave no grey area and there would be a bigger indication rather than just a missing capital letter... I would spell it out for you ...
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:01:47 pm CDT
flicka...pillows can be a lot of fun!...lol
Lita, Physician 21:02:17 pm CDT
*laughing to flicka* My towel has "Don't Panic" stitched in it! *giggle*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:02:28 pm CDT
Viscious would imply physical punishments...but for her the worst punishment is incurring her Master's displeasure...she thinks most, if not all, slaves feel that way.
but she hated the one when Elinor Brinton was spread eagles on a hill and there were insects? ~shudders~
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:03:55 pm CDT
geeze...that's what karma was saying...if a slave wanted she could have herself killed...but then...would that be a punishment?
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:05:40 pm CDT
~chuckling~
Indeed shuri, "so long and thanks for all the fish"
Mistress Lita was knitting "don't panic" facewashers last year.
Jarl Thorrn, it is crucial, but that is what Masters are for. As karma says, her Jarl takes on His shoulders all of the worries.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:08:36 pm CDT
*Wiggles* Yes, naked and exposed to insects would be horrible. This one has a severe dislike of spiders.
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:09:40 pm CDT
nods to flicka...exactly
Qazir 21:09:55 pm CDT
I love insects hee heee they can be a Jarls best friend some times
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:11:02 pm CDT
looks to her Jarl...remembering the bees out back and the spiders in the basement shivering
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:11:46 pm CDT
Even if Jarl Qazir was tied naked out in the elements with them? *Raises an eyebrow*
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:11:52 pm CDT
~smiling at snowrose in remeberance of her using the term~
call flicka a Pollyanna, but she does not like to think about "nasty" things like cruel and unusual punishments.
For flicka it is a Master's frown that cuts deeply, online His displeasure hurts her soul.
With her Jarl it is for His lips to tighten into a straight line of displeasure, the whip hurts her physically, but ceases to hurt after a time, the damage to her soul lasts for much longer.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:12:00 pm CDT
That being helplessly exposed to insects, spiders and such reminds Me muchly of Orwell 1984 where the biggest punihsment for the hero is to be exposed to rats.
Kazar~infamous pirate 21:12:14 pm CDT
shuri their not bad spiders
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:12:41 pm CDT
*Considers her fear of spiders and the fact that is a race of very, very large ones on Gor.*
Qazir 21:13:11 pm CDT
hmmm wonder if that plays a role why i raise insects rats and snakes hee hee
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:13:32 pm CDT
for karma...it would be Jarls voice...she knows immediately when He's displeased in any way
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:14:02 pm CDT
ok, she is going to show her ignorance again...why a towel for BDSM?
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:14:14 pm CDT
~shudders~ Jarl Thorrn, Winston Smith. For flicka it is spiders. They move so quickly.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:14:37 pm CDT
Ok, slaves.
That sweet answer that knowing you have been displeasing to your Master hurts you most is ... mmmmmm ... a well done answer but that question asked about another kind of punishment, more physical punishment.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:14:38 pm CDT
*Hears Master Kazar* Any insect climbing over her skin or inside her home is evil....*Grins slightly*
Qazir 21:15:38 pm CDT
oh no suri I am not a very good victim
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:15:39 pm CDT
oh yes those edible worms...meaL WORMS...EWWWW!
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:16:17 pm CDT
mistress snowrose: The inference of the towel was a story in a book. It had nothing to do with BDSM.
Qazir 21:16:32 pm CDT
that is right tell the sadist your fears I love it
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:17:32 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn. This one has read very little of the Gor books, so really cannot answer. *Grins* Where is Mistress Lita when we need Her?
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:17:41 pm CDT
~deep breath~ well Jarl Thorrn, online it is difficult to have "real" punishments, but if the slave can be trusted to really do what the Master proposes, there are some physical punishments that can be done. A girl is not talking of self flagellation, but of other things.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:17:49 pm CDT
yes flicka..it hurts her soul when her Master is displeased with her...much as she hates pain, she begs for the whip on the very, very, very rare occasions when that happens...~giggles and winks to her Master~
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:18:18 pm CDT
physical punishment...hmmmmm...that's a good eone...karma's third choice would have to be...having the comp taken away for a week....no flicka is like a week without sunshine!
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:18:26 pm CDT
*Eyes slide to Qazir, hearing Him, thinking.....oh, great.*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:19:16 pm CDT
oh rats are even worse Master...she remembers that in 1984
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:20:43 pm CDT
rats aren't bad!!...lets talk snakes tho
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:20:53 pm CDT
shuri
What is the most vicious punishemnt for you isn´t written in the boks, that is in your mind and soul and body *S*
Qazir 21:21:08 pm CDT
*evil grin at suri"
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:22:54 pm CDT
karma second less favorable punishment...hmmm...looks to her Jarl...getting her ass chewed out royally...He has verbale skills that are unmeasured by all!
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:22:59 pm CDT
aaawwww shucks karma, didn't you know you need suncream when basking in the sun?
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:24:16 pm CDT
lol...ya need that towel too...winks to flicka
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:24:40 pm CDT
This one has to agree, that an emotional punishment, like withdrawing from or not interacting with one, or even anger or being displeased, hurts her way more. she has a tendency to be very sensitive to the emotions of those she cares about.
But physically.....well this one HATES pain. Burning or cutting would definitely come under cruel and unusual punishment for her.
Qazir 21:25:49 pm CDT
keep talking suri *grins wider*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:26:34 pm CDT
at the Snakes Alive program at the library, snowrose has snakes wrapped around her shoulders, a teeny one for a bracelet...it helps the kids to not be scared to touch them
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:27:00 pm CDT
that mean old not-talking punishment, shuri?
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:27:36 pm CDT
nods to snow...karma has one she likes...Bilbo...a ball python...however the milk snake scares her
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:29:27 pm CDT
karma thinks shuri means that bad old being ignored punishment...
Jarl Thorrn....have You noticed that most of our worse punishments don't involve a whip...giggles
Qazir 21:29:42 pm CDT
question is it really punishment if i am enjoying myself in administering it ?
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:30:43 pm CDT *Bites bottom lip hearing Jarl Qazir.* But, but.....Jarl Thorrn asked.....
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:31:19 pm CDT
HHHMmmmmm...if karma's on the receiving end...yes...if we both enjoy it...well no!
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:31:55 pm CDT
nods to karma ... sure i noticed that.
This Man doesn´t deal with females since yesterday only *wink*
That is why i asked for the other ways to punish a slave.
Qazir 21:32:57 pm CDT
and whoever said that a slave does not have a instruction manual just let them talk they will tell you how to punish them ha ha
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:34:01 pm CDT
*Nods to Jarl Thorrn about the not talking.* That drives her crazy!
This one knows it doesn't seem true, but she was heavily, emotionally abused growing up, with a little physical abuse on the side. At the moment, the physically painful reprimand might be unpleasant. But it is true, emotional, like withdrawing of attention of affection, or walking around angry without saying anything, is way worse.
ShadowHawk 21:34:08 pm CDT
*returns from real times tug, settling down again nodding for girl to come*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:35:11 pm CDT
whispers to shuri ... and the not stopping to talk can drive a Man crazy *chuckles*
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:35:17 pm CDT
welcome back Master ShadowHawk.
~listening to shuri, becoming saddened~
Qazir 21:35:55 pm CDT
glad to have you back Shadow
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:36:55 pm CDT
*Grins a bit at that coming from Jarl Qazir, but still makes a note to keep an eye on Him, and any insects, rats, or snakes that might in the vacinity. *
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:37:06 pm CDT
Yes shuri...withdrawing affection is the worse...that is what she meant by Master's displeasure
Dak 21:37:09 pm CDT
when it come to punishments and girl desiring it, I once had one pushing Me trying to get Me to whip her, but I gave her a punishment that was far worse than whipping , for her, becuz she liked to cuddle with her Master I gave a punishment, that she could not touch Master for a week, she never begged punishment again, *smiles*
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:38:27 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn, flicka thinks for her You have hit the nail on the head.
Boredom would be flicka's greatest punishment, to be put into a cage with absolutely no stimulation, a blank wall to stare at, no books, no music, nothing. To be left there for an indeterminate length of time. Being told to dwell on her misdoings. Forbidden to talk to even the wall.
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:38:49 pm CDT
*Crawls to curl up by Master, smiling at His early return*
Jarl Thorrn......*grins* You mean that the girls have a habit of not ever being quiet?
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:38:51 pm CDT
~nods to Master Dak~ That is a painful punishment Master
ShadowHawk 21:39:29 pm CDT
First off, let me explain something Qazir.. I think this is a great discussion and I THINK this ties in with what were brought up last week.. the rise and fall of Gor and GS....
In all the years I have been around Gor it has gone from a harsh world to one of "D/s", it seems that the Dungeons and BDSM theme rooms have had an over run of princess subbies, so the dominants tired of it and decided "HEY, lets go to Gor where slaves have no choices and cyber sex with them!".. so an influx of D/s has been brought to Gor, HENCE all the Gor rooms dying! Because what were just a couple soon turned out to be an over run of BDSM within Gor.. soon slaves had their say about this and that or would jump from one collar to other and I even seen here within these walls a Man.. a WaRRIOR pulling pillow out for one of the Tavern slaves to kneel beside him. Not long after that is when I took a hiatus from Gor because it seems, people want Gor to be BDSM theme room, I don't.
NOW as far as what you said flicka in rt, yes you are BDSM in rt, however here within the walls of GS you are not nor do you act as such. There is a difference and you know the difference as well, soon as you and Keeper walk in here a line is drawn and we are Gorean! Period.. so yes qazir, I know the difference and I answer a post according to what is stated in THAT post... however MY frame of mind, thought and beliefs do not change.. Gor is Gor and BDSM is BDSM, they do not belong together... Ever!
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:39:51 pm CDT
*Smiles to flicka and winks*
Dak 21:40:10 pm CDT
it was definitely for her, *smiles* sometimes using a girl's own needs against her works best, *smiles*
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:40:53 pm CDT
That is the best punishment flicka...rarely used these days, but very effective...told to come in, but not permitted to interact...or think aloud , for a prescribed number of hours...to give the punishment in days is ineffective because suddenly the girl's r/t gets very busy
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:40:57 pm CDT
*snickers as flicka says not being even to talk to the wall.*
ShadowHawk 21:41:00 pm CDT
*wrapping arm around shuri, pulling her in to my thigh in hug, keeping her close by while my fingers idly draw and caress over her bare skin* thank you for the welcome backs... *warm smile nodding to all*
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:42:28 pm CDT
Oh My God ... what a hell of punishment you lined out there flicka
I agree very much with you, that would be punishment for Me too.
And i admit, withdrawing affection and not even saying why being angry. Like women tned to do ... you know why you did wrong and why i´m angry. And if you don´t know i do not need to tell you. ... and then silence. My mom used to do that wit my dad - for 3 days or so. I often pittied him when she has bene in thta mood and nothing to see why she did it. (PMS was not know to me yet at that time *l*) grrrrrrrrrr.
ShadowHawk 21:43:34 pm CDT
lmao.. flicka I know of a slave that were put in a huge bowl of fruit as punishment.. I forget what she had done wrong, BUT she stayed there and were there for four days til her Owner realized he left her there.. she would think of anything and everything possible to entertain herself HOWEVER she did not leave.. although if you think on it, she also sat in her own waste.. lol
Dak 21:44:09 pm CDT
I can agree with that Hawk, many of the Masters in Gor anymore have come from the BDSM rooms
ShadowHawk 21:45:01 pm CDT
*rereads after being shown*... apologies Qazir, there was no statement or meaning behind me not capping your name there the second time I used it..
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:45:25 pm CDT
~nods to mistress snowrose~ aye, Jarl Keeper and flicka were talking of it the other day. For it to work online, the girl must be required to post a single word every 5 ehn or so, she must be required to scribe the happenings in the room and submit it to the "Punisher"
In other words she must be attentive to the room.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:45:43 pm CDT
if she was permitted to post and think of creative ways to entertain herself, that was not a punishment Master...that made her the star of her own little soap opera and gained attention.
As to the waste part, snowrose has no idea what that means. Not on Gor
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:45:49 pm CDT
*leans into His thigh, pressing her cheek there.*
*Listens to Jarl Thorrn about women not telling what is wrong and chuckles.* This one has never been that way. she will tell You in no uncertain terms why she is angry if You let her.
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:46:47 pm CDT
WB ShadwoHawk
I agree in the principle what i read in your posting - keep this place Gorean.
A god advice, not to let the slaves rule a place, it is often that way and it is also often the downfall of a Gorean place when the slaves are allowed to rule.
ShadowHawk 21:47:56 pm CDT
snow when I first came to GS, I forget the slave but she were punished not to talk, she had to carry around a board and write down things she were to say.. SHE had to interact via role play.. not by talking.. it was fun to watch and she did great with it.. but her punishment was not to talk til given permission to by her owners or Captains, I forget if she were personally owned or Tavern owned
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:48:13 pm CDT
Now, if attention or interaction is withheld on a regular basis, every time One just gets pissy. Well after awhile that becomes ineffective because a girl gets tired of an over reaction over every little thing. But if it is used sparingly, as a true punishment, for a true infraction, then it can be very effective.
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:48:45 pm CDT
karma was once tied and left kneeling with her arms tied at her back in a Jacobs ladder...and her ponytail pulled back so she was staring up for 6 hours...one position oh yea and the ring gag...where she drooled all over herself...embaressing...and incredibly painful
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:48:48 pm CDT
~bursts out laughing at shuri~
aye, Jarl Keeper sometimes has to duck flying shoes and anything else flicka can lay her hands on. flicka also is not one to "bottle up" her feelings.
Dak 21:49:28 pm CDT
which is one of the reasons I have wondered why the slaves are allowed to deviate from the slave manual as written! Gor doesn't allow slaves the option to deviate in the ay they are slaves !
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:50:26 pm CDT
again, she gained attention..being ignored completely..just permitted to greet is much worse for a slave... snow has seen that and the girls agreed it was a terrible punishment...and scribing and posting it on the boards..
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:50:35 pm CDT
shuri
some women wnat to be "read" as kind of showinf attention and affection.
So they don´t tell because the other one shall be able to find out just because he knows her well enough ... and if not he shall simmer in guessing .
ShadowHawk 21:50:39 pm CDT
aye snow, I would go in just to watch her.. she would stand and dance in the bowl... then start stomping feet to make wine.. on and on she came up with completely different ways to interact and create her character.. it was great to watch.. BUT yes on the fourth day she were really tiring of being left in bowl and good thing her Owner came back she were about to just say to heck with it and leave... Gor that is
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:52:14 pm CDT
yes it is a rare punishment...the few times she saw it it was for egregious behavior...running away, being impudent and disrespectful...not just mistakes
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:52:34 pm CDT
*Hears Jarl Thorrn and replies softly, eyes down for a moment* It is unfortunate when the slaves HAVE to rule a place to keep it going because the Master's are not behaving Master's.
Qazir 21:52:36 pm CDT
Shadow Hawk I mean you no disrespect if you follow the history of BDSM it was not as many identify it today granted... Gor is nothing but and extension of D/s falling under the umbrella of BDSM... What you are seeing is not a influx of bdsm into Gor what you are seeing is boys seeking Power but not understanding the realm at all and it does not help with people throwing terms around like they know what they are talking about or thinking they know what BDSM is. The fact is that Gor appeals to different types for different reasons people can rp as they choose.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:54:21 pm CDT
snow thinks we'll have to agree to disagree with that being an effective punishment Master...she sees no difference really than when we come in alone and do a chore and try to make it interesting to be read in the echoes...that girl was having fun
Dak 21:55:36 pm CDT
I think the GS info pages pretty well explain how a Master or slave is to act in this site ! and it has nothing to do with BDSM!
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:55:45 pm CDT
I think that nice short question about the vicious ways of punishment gave some good ideas and a good discussion.
shuri .... so true, the Masters must be willing and able to do Their part - to be dominant and rule the place and not allow the slaves to do it.
ShadowHawk 21:57:25 pm CDT
Qazir, you are wrong.. what John Norman did was create a world with many different cultures and lifestyles, most which are not BDSM related at all but a true means in way of life. IE, the Geisha's, they were not a BDSM theme, that is their culture and way of life! To include the Red Savage who take after our Native Americans, which I am where women HAVE no say, when I go home for get together, the women are in the kitchen and us men in living room. They check from time to time to see if we need anything, first time I went to kitchen for soda, I were given an evil eye, like.. what the hell you doing here, don't you know if you want something you yell out.. lol...
so no, Qazir, Gor was never derived for or from BDSM... it was created as second world with many lifestyles thrown in...
HOWEVER.. what is known as real time Gor, yes I agree with you, it is a derivative of BDSM lifestyle
shuri {ShadowHawk} 21:57:51 pm CDT
*nods to Jarl Thorrn about women thinking a man should know them well enough to guess.* And this one was like that when she was younger. But she did quickly learn that is not true. Plus, when she is very angry, she has a hard time keeping her mouth shut. she wants to talk about it. *grins*
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:59:24 pm CDT
With respect Master ShadowHawk, flicka tends to agree with mistress snowrose, what You describe with that slave would not be punishment for flicka. And flicka suspects that for a while it was not punishment for that girl either. She was centre of attention and enjoying herself.
To make it punishmnet everyone would have had to ignore her antics. A large part of punishment is humiliation of being shamed in the eyes of others both slaves and Masters. To have her shortcomings and failures placed on display for all to see.
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 21:59:37 pm CDT
isn't a M/s relationship not seen in both BDSM and Gor...sure they are because theyre the same
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 21:59:39 pm CDT
Shadowhawk
The women didn´t want You to come to the kitchen because they claimed as their region where they want to be undisturbed form Man. They´d rather serve them in the living room and be undisturbed in the kitchen ... a si think.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 22:00:10 pm CDT
that sounds like a football game at snow's apartment Master ShadowHawk
Dak 22:01:47 pm CDT
this is what corrupts Gor, the very idea, that it is the same as BDSM!!!
ShadowHawk 22:02:03 pm CDT
exactly Thorrn, their place we had ours.. but regardless how you me or anybody looks at it.. they the women served as they had been taught and raised to in all the years we native americans have been around.. there is and were nothing BDSM about it.. but is our way of life! WHICH is the point I were making
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 22:03:11 pm CDT
and to not be permitted to do her antics..just be there, pay attention , scribe and greet...that's punishment...we would be squirming to put our words of wisdom out there..be cute, but NO! can only silently observe.
ShadowHawk 22:03:23 pm CDT
NO karma.. it isn't.. IF anybody would read the books which is what Lita kept trying to make as point. THERE is no BDSM, M/s or any such D/s lifestyle involved.. it is their own lifestyle and means of life. As is ours to us Apaches!
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:03:36 pm CDT
Without intedning to stop any further need to talk and discuss i declare the official part of the forum as closed and thank flicka for scribing *S*
Any talking may go on anyways.
shuri
Letting a Man guess about the what and the why is a kind of domination of the women in rt. They keep him in their claws this way and make him think about them all the time and trying to find a dn all of the man is focused on her just to be able to find out. Some women love that .... ooopssss ... it is close to what Masters expect from their slaves, to be focused on them *S*
shuri {ShadowHawk} 22:04:15 pm CDT
Not to step on Jarl Thornn's toes, BUT we had a rather long discussion on BDSM vs Gor earlier and Master Ramses put it to rest. Are we not supposed to be discussing another topic now? *Quietly, eyes lowered*
Qazir 22:05:11 pm CDT
it is clear to see that many of you dont understand what BDSM means and we can leave it at that and what John wrote was a culmination of things in culture slavery mastery and so on it was not some original thought all to his own... sure he through in creatures and stuff but again if you grasped what the core of BDSM is you would be able to see that Gor falls right under it... if you dont grasp it you want see the link that much is clear
Dak 22:05:14 pm CDT
Thanks to Thorrn and Ramses for leading,
and flicka for scribing
ShadowHawk 22:05:56 pm CDT
Thanks to Ramses and you as well Thorrn for over seeing this weeks Forum.. I enjoyed the topic very much!
karma [Q] ~ süß küsse~ 22:06:08 pm CDT
in my personal oppinon...what corrupts Gorean roleplay is the way its played....most men had no slaves...ya never see a Master without a slave longer than a month...and in some places...sex is the number one activity among players...whats gorean about that...where are the duals, and rp outside of that life?
Dak 22:06:10 pm CDT
Bondage, Dominance, Sado Masochistic
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:06:29 pm CDT
Thank You Jarl Thorrn for taking over the Leading from Master Ramses.
~smiling to all~
flicka must leave, she is fading away to a shadow, a great discussion.
Qazir 22:07:12 pm CDT
you are half right Daks Gor is not BDSM in it entirety but BDSM encompasses Gor
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:07:17 pm CDT
shuri, we discussed another topic since Captain Ramses left.
The topic about the vicious punishment.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 22:07:31 pm CDT
Thank You for taking over from Master Ramses and leading my Master
thank you for scribing flicka
ShadowHawk 22:07:32 pm CDT
Nay, what IS clear is that you wish to judge Qazir, for what I believe see and agree upon, I never expect you too... however as adults I do expect to come to an understanding... THAT is my thought on the matter!
Qazir 22:07:53 pm CDT
swats flickas pretty little ass thanks girl for everything you do
Jarl Thorrn - Advisor 22:08:22 pm CDT
Be well flicka
*huggsssssssssss***** Regards to your Keeper of your neck
flicka-slave of Keeper 22:09:09 pm CDT
~laughing softly as she fingers the steel encircling her throat~
fare well Masters and slaves, friends all.