Present :
Thadron
Ramses
Dak
Kazar
Lita
snowrose
hulya
flicka
Dak 19:36:23 pm CST
sorry I'm late, if any have a topic, post it to Me, and I will open the forum
Dak 19:44:47 pm CST
ok, I have topic, so I will open the Forum, same rules, keep chit chat and greetings to whispers, to save work for the scribe, thank you
Dak 19:45:34 pm CST
1st topic , Home Stone, Community, Belonging
As Port Kar has no Homestone, it is particularly important for us to understand the meaning and significance of Homestones on Gor, so that we can know what differences the lack of a Homestone leads to in Port Kar.
Quotes For This Week
"..In the Home Stone-sometimes little more than a crude piece of carved rock, dating back perhaps several hundred generations to when the city was only a cluster of huts by the bank of a river, sometimes a magnificent and impressively wrought, jewel- encrusted cube of marble or granite-the city finds its symbol. Yet to speak of a symbol is to fall short of the mark. It is almost as if the city itself were identified with the Home Stone, as if it were to the city what life is to a man. The myths of these matters have it that while the Home Stone survives, so, too, must the city. But not only is it the case that each city has its Home Stone. The simplest and humblest village, and even the most primitive hut in that village, perhaps only a cone of straw, will contain its own Home Stone, as will the fantastically appointed chambers of the Administrator of so great a city as Ar".---Outlaw of Gor, pg 22-23 "...I think the explanation for the Gorean political arrangements and attitudes in the institution of the Home Stone. It is the Home Stone which, for the Gorean, marks the center. I think it is because of their Home Stones that the Gorean tends to think of territory as something from the inside out, so to speak, rather than from the outside in. Consider again the analogy of the circle. For the Gorean the Home Stone would mark the point of the circle's center. It is the Home Stone which, so to speak, determines the circle. There can be a point without a circle; but there can be no circle without its central point. But let me not try to speak of Home Stones. If you have a Home Stone, I need not speak. If you do not have a Home Stone, how could you understand what I might say?"---Fighting Slave of Gor, pg 144 "One popular account has it that an ancient hero, Hesius, once performed great labors for Priest-Kings, and was promised a reward greater than gold and silver. He was given, however, only a flat piece of rock with a single character inscribed upon it, the first letter in the name of his native village. He reproached the Priest- Kings with their niggardliness, and what he regarded as their breach of faith. He was told, however, that what they gave him was indeed worth far more than gold and silver, that it was a "Home Stone." He returned to his native village, which was torn with war and strife. He told the story there, and put the stone in the market place. "If the Priest-Kings say this is worth more than gold and silver," said a wise man, "it must be true." "Yes," said the people. "Whose Home Stone is it?" asked the people, "yours or ours?" "Ours," responded Hesius. Weapons were then laid aside, and peace pledged. The name of the village was "Ar." It is generally accepted in Gorean tradition that the Home Stone of Ar is the oldest Home Stone on Gor."---
Dancer of Gor, pg 302
Questions
1)The Home Stone is often represented as a "concept". What concepts do you feel the Home Stone displays and is it the same from city to city?
2)How is the Home Stone a political institution?
3)Although it is just a stone, a rock, there is huge ritual and almost mystical power associated with the Home Stone. Why do you think this is?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:50:36 pm CST
This is an interesting topic Master...to her mind it is probably the same reason that religions build cathedrals and temples and mosques...It's something real and solid to symbolize the nebulous concept...a sort of glue to hold people together
Dak 19:52:13 pm CST
I equate to how we in the US feel patriotic to our Flag
Lita, Physician 19:52:49 pm CST
good thought, snow
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:53:23 pm CST
yes Master...that too.
hulya{GS} 19:53:47 pm CST
hulya thinks that the concept of the Homestone is to give the dwelling, village or city a sense of unity and purpose and is basically the same no matter where a Gorean goes, though the ways and rules might differ
Lita, Physician 19:55:48 pm CST
But how can a piece of rock give a sense of unity and purpose?
lilith {GS} 19:56:04 pm CST
hulya took the words right out of this girls mouth...*giggling as she agrees with all the answers*
Ramses 19:56:41 pm CST
I think Dak's flag analogy makes the most sense to Me
Lita, Physician 19:56:44 pm CST
And I am not saying that you are wrong, hulya, just wanting you to go deeper in your explanation.
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:57:39 pm CST
Mistress the same way a piece of cloth ie. a flag can, the same way that a figure of a Man on a cross can.
It is not the actuality of the thing but the symbolism.
Lita, Physician 19:57:53 pm CST
Or, perhaps on a less serious note, how we relate to the mascot or symbol of our favorite Sports Team.
Dak 19:58:12 pm CST
al though the larger cities of Gor have flags, I think the Homestone is held above the Flag
Lita, Physician 19:58:17 pm CST
good, flicka
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:58:27 pm CST
yes, after all it's just cloth, but it stands for the union
hulya{GS} 19:59:26 pm CST
girl was thinking of the last quote Master Dak gave Mistress, how it was told that the rock after being told the story brought peace and unity to a warring village
Dak 20:00:30 pm CST
even peasant may have a home stone for His home, it is not only cities that have homestones
Lita, Physician 20:00:56 pm CST
I think so too, Dak. They'd need a flag to carry in battle for the troops to rally around. You couldn't do that with a rock, and there'd be too much danger the enemy might capture it. You can sew another flag, but it's more difficult to pick an other rock and get everyone to agree on it.
hulya{GS} 20:01:15 pm CST
And isn't every citizen invested in the protection of their cities' homestone Mistress even if they don't all fight?
Lita, Physician 20:01:52 pm CST
And a homestone for a home might help lend cohesiveness for the family. Reminding them that they are all for one and one for all.
Lita, Physician 20:02:19 pm CST
true, hulya
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:02:23 pm CST
A girl is trying to remember primitive and nomadic Man, did they not have totems that they carried with them? It grounded them, gave them a sense of continuity?
Dak 20:02:49 pm CST
also, a peasant will die protecting His homestone as well, *smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:04:18 pm CST
I believe they did, flicka
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:08:39 pm CST
does the homestone concept reveal a need to belong to the Gorean?...
is it because the world is so, how shall I say, wild, untamed?...
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:08:51 pm CST
The Standard carried in battle was a little different, as You say Mistress it was a rallying point, so troops would know where their King was. It was a great tragedy to lose one's standard, thinking of Roman Legions here, with Their Eagle. If a Legion lost its eagle it was often disbanded.
Ramses 20:09:19 pm CST
I think that need exists in all men, Thadron Gorean or not
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:09:51 pm CST girl thinks almost all humans have that need Master Thadron
hulya{GS} 20:09:59 pm CST And women as well Master Ramses
Ramses 20:10:15 pm CST
*chuckles*
indeed hulya ...
hulya{GS} 20:10:33 pm CST
*giggles and smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:11:33 pm CST
I think, in a way, Thadron, that we all have a homestone. Each country has a flag or a ruler or both, to whom they swear allegiance. We are taught to be loyal to our State, City, and to our families, and family name, are we not?
Lita, Physician 20:12:52 pm CST
And Thadron, I tend to think the world is still very wild and untamed even today. Just in different ways than it was in primitive times.
Lita, Physician 20:14:27 pm CST
So how does this affect Port Kar, this not having a Home Stone?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:16:22 pm CST
well Mistress Port Kar is a den of thieves, and so it is "the wild and untamed" which was spoken of earlier. What need would it have of a Homestone, and what allegiance would thieves and pirates have to a Homestone?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:16:51 pm CST
There is the Council...to give rules that all are expected to obey...it's not anarchy
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:17:21 pm CST
~nods~ that is true, Lita....
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:18:07 pm CST
flicka grins
Dak 20:18:16 pm CST
there were several Ubars n Port Kar also, that pretty much ruled different parts of the City
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:19:57 pm CST
I think Dak is right, the loyalty in Port Kar was to the Ubars before Port Kar got a homestone
Lita, Physician 20:21:14 pm CST
And yet, Port Kar, like any City, has need of unity and co-hesiveness among its Citizens, especially during times of War. And Tyros and Cos and others were often plotting wars against them.
Dak 20:22:00 pm CST
The Coucil of Captains were pretty much the Protectors of the city and the port
Lita, Physician 20:22:13 pm CST
Would it not have been to the Council of Captains? Because there were 5 Ubars, and it would be pretty hard to get them all to co-ordinate, would it not?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:22:29 pm CST
yes Mistress..we read about that, though girl is hopeless about remembering which book
Dak 20:24:03 pm CST
aye, yes , the council of Captains pretty much organized them to a point some of them didn't like going along with the Captains
Lita, Physician 20:27:52 pm CST
True, Dak, but as long as the Captains worked in concert, they really didn't have much choice. Thing is, the Captains, being pirates, would have ignored a lot of things that most Cities would find unacceptable. *chuckle* Like a Caste of thieves for example.
Lita, Physician 20:31:12 pm CST
So, knowing what we do of the meaning and significance of the Homestone, what are your thoughts on the practice in some Gorean Homes on-line of having slaves entering the Home kneeling in the doorway and kissing the Home Stone before begging entry?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:32:16 pm CST
really Mistress? girl would have thought a slave could never touch a homestone
Dak 20:33:15 pm CST
*smiles*, here it wouldn't be necessary, since the home here is a tavern, *smiles*
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:33:19 pm CST
Hygiene out the window. Yukky.
Dak 20:33:54 pm CST
Goreans are immune to Germs, *smiles*
hulya{GS} 20:33:59 pm CST
*giggles at flicka's comment*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:35:24 pm CST
I wouldn't say it was necessary to live Gorean to have the ritual of kissing the homestone... and snowrose does raise the issue of is a slave allowed to touch it or not...
but it would be up to the Leader(s?) to decide what must be done or not be done....
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:35:41 pm CST
This is true Master Dak, but ~laughing~ flicka only wants to exchange body fluids with Masters, not other slaves.
Ramses 20:35:55 pm CST
*chuckles*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:37:05 pm CST
since we are but animals in the law, it would be like letting a bosk lick it
Lita, Physician 20:37:09 pm CST
Dak, even a Tavern could have a Home STone. However My thoughts are, along with snow's that a slave would never be allowed to touch a HOme S tone. Not to mention, I can't see Anyone placing an object as revered as a Home Stone in or on the floor where people would walk over it entering the home. Maybe that's just Me. It would be like walking on the flag, for heaven's sake!
Ramses 20:37:41 pm CST
*agrees with Lita
Dak 20:37:59 pm CST
well, I think kissing the homestone is out in Port Kar anyway , *smiles* since it doesn't have one, *smiles*
hulya{GS} 20:39:03 pm CST
girl doesn't know how other Taverns place their Homestone but in girl's old home the stone was placed on a pedastal where the Owners sat
Lita, Physician 20:39:53 pm CST
Agreed, Dak. Of course I think it's our anyway, by the books. Never saw anything like that in them. Most Home stones that are mentioned in the books are kept somewhere safe,. and only certain people allowed access to them.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:40:18 pm CST
I wouldn't want to judge r/t Gorean Homes without observing them in practice.... but I believe to stick as closely to the books as possible..
Lita, Physician 20:42:26 pm CST
Thadron I am sorry. I guess I was unclear. When I said Gorean Homes, I meant on -line ones. I have visited many that required slaves to do just that. I never eve got as far as thinking about r/t Gorean Homes, though of course there are some.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:44:30 pm CST
thanks Lita... I got off on a tangent, didn't I? ~lol~
Dak 20:46:33 pm CST
it seems we have some other matters to attend to, I will now close the Forum and turn things over to the Captain
Lita, Physician 20:46:36 pm CST
Well, it's not an unreasonable thought, Thadron. I don't personally know a lot of folks who keep Gorean Homes r/t, but I think a couple of them might do just that if it occurred to them ! *LOL*
Lita, Physician 20:47:18 pm CST
Thank You for leading, Dak.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:48:16 pm CST
I would make all the slaves kiss my stones when entering my rt Gorean Home..
but I don't think anyone ever doubted that... ~chuckles~
hulya{GS} 20:49:10 pm CST
*giggles upon hearing Master Thadron's words*
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:49:37 pm CST
~laughs and shakes her head at Master Thadron~ Never for a minute Master
Dak 20:49:55 pm CST
*laughing* @ the Captains words
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:51:36 pm CST
thank you for leading Dak
it was a fine discussion...
thanks for scribing snowrose