slaves begging entry into *their* home
Emerald Forest~~~ *ok then I will call this forum open and the normal rules appy,no permission to enter or leave and keep to small talk to a negative so that the scribe dosen't have to cut it out S the first topic is
If girls own nothing and only have a place at thier Masters feet then why do so many beg entry to "their home"?
vika{Marius}~~~ ~There was a discussion of this before. And it was voted to do so....And being protocol here, a slave must do. vika does know there are some places where the slaves do not have to beg. *respectfully* she also read where speaking in third person and begging entrance and departure reminds the slave of what she is constantly.~
Emerald Forest~~~ *but as the topic says,a slave owns nothing and her home is where ever her Master or Mistress sees fit,so that is why a slave should alawys beg to gain entrance no matter where she or he is,except maybe in her Master's holdings*
Paedur~~~ There was conversation of "Home" last night Emeral Forest.
and it was from what I gathered pretty much agreed upon that a girl has no home except at her Master's feet.
But the Master definitely has a home, and since We Masters and Free share this home, it is only right that those that are not Master nor free beg to enter.
We have the right to admit those We wish to Our home.
Although I have not seen any humble offer refused. *S*
Kayla~~~ I think the question vika is about slaves using the term "my home" in their begging entrance when it is not their Home but the place they go because it is where their Owner call Home
Kayla~~~ Hang around Paedur *ss* if not done right I will refuse entry in a freaking heartbeat *S*
Emerald Forest~~~ *it should be that when they ask permission to enter they should ask to enter their Master's or Mistress's home not their's*
Errand Knight~~~ technically a home owned by the Free..but to me personally, the ritual and the reminder of "place" is the most important
vika{Marius}~~~ ~to vika that should be a known. a girl never says my home...always *beg* to enter, may she enter please. so to vika that is a must at all times.~
Kayla~~~ but when a slave begs to enter should she say "may this girl enter her home?" Is that not showing possession?
Emerald Forest~~~ *well there must be some kajirae that are begging to enter their home otherwise this topic would not have come up S*
vika{Marius}~~~ ~vika nods in agreement to Master Errand Knight...."place" is the most important......and the most forgot. *softly*~
Emerald Forest~~~ *no, she should say either may I enter or may I enter My Master's or Mistress's home*
Kayla~~~ I agree vika but see those words every day coming from slaves in their entry *ss* that is why it is a topic I guess...
akeria{Pergi}~~~ may akeria speak
vika{Marius}~~~ ~The proper way would most likely be to say, "may this girl enter the Home of her Master, may a girl enter please, etc. Not showing possession. *nods*~
Kayla~~~ no need to ask akeria... *S* all may speak as long as it is with respect *ss*
akeria{Pergi}~~~ akeria agree's with vika..*smile*
Emerald Forest~~~ *it is forum akeria,all can speak without permission as long as you show respect*
akeria{Pergi}~~~ akeria was trained that slaves own nothing..therefore this can not be their home..tis the home of their Master..
vika{Marius}~~~ ~If a Free sees this, then the Free should correct the slave. So that the next time....(and vika knows) LOL......it will not happen, hopefully.~
Errand Knight~~~ I guess it should be "my Masters home" whether privately or GS owned..and what of other slaves?
zen{GS}~~~ *smiles* a girl did this just this evening, but she wasn't thinking of it as hers, only that it is the place where a girls Masters' call home and allow her to stay here even when They aren't present, and in a sense she is owned by the place because that is what the girls Masters' have willed. *smiling softly*
Emerald Forest~~~ *true vika but there are some that might be new and think that it is right to enter like that,maybe we should get the slave classes to address it to the new slaves*
Kayla~~~ Just the simple question of may she enter the Tavern... may a girl enter to serve (as vika stated) is a great example of a wonderful entry begging
vika{Marius}~~~ ~That is an excellent thought Master Emerald Forest. vika can see how that could happen. vika whispers as a general rule and explains the necessity to beg entrance at the Shores.~
Paedur~~~ I tried to post this a moment ago before I was wisked away from bad connection.
Lady Kayla, I did not mean it in that manner, only that if there was error found then entrance was refused and explained why and they repeated it until it was done correctly.
I meant I had yet to see any refused ultimately once it was done correctly and humbly. *S*
Emerald Forest~~~ *ok then anymore on this topic and if not if any have another topic just whisper to Me*
akeria{Pergi}~~~ akeria believes it sends mixed messages to allow a slave to call this her home..slaves own nothing..that is the bottom line..it belongs to their Master...
Emerald Forest~~~ *Paedur,I have a couple of times but only with My own slaves and when they needed to be punished*
Paedur~~~ Aye Emerald Forest, and I have seen where the slaves was corrected, but just have never seen one refused ent5race once things were done correctly. *S*
Kayla~~~ Personally I have refused admittence to slaves that have caused problems in the past.. I can think of 2 at this moment I would not grant entry to if they stood on their heads and begged with chocolate cake ~grins~ There are many reasons to refuse entry
akeria{Pergi}~~~ akeria has seen how mixed messages can ruin a room..girl has noticed in BDSM subs control things but yet are called submissives...one thing girl did learn in Gor..is Master rules..not slave
akeria{Pergi}~~~ akeria was refused enterence once because she did not do it correctly
Paedur~~~ I think that yes a slave can not own anything, but that does not mean she can not have a place that is Home.
you do not need to own the place to make it a home. *S*
akeria{Pergi}~~~ Master Paedur...it is her home through her Master...when a slave that is owned wants to make GS her home..who pledges?
The use of *my* Master
Paedur~~~ In retrospect, if you do honestly feel that a slave owns nothing, then how can you suggest that she can call her master her Master, a sign of ownership.
My Master whomever... shows ownership in a manner, and not the ownership of one to her Master but the other way around.
vika{Marius}~~~ ~vika has often thought about that Master Paedur. *LOL* "my Master"~
Ayana~~~ doesn't the use of my stray from the use of 3rd person?
Kayla~~~ Great point Ayana *S*
zen{GS}~~~ a girl knowns that one doesn't use the word "my" attached to anything, occassionaly there is a slip, but most slaves get it and don't have to have the habit of saying "my" beat out of them *smiles*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ *listening to Mistress Ayana.. *
the use of *my Master* had been spoke of before.. one believes that it was approved in that sense..
Kayla~~~ I think the word "my" in any form is flirting with danger.. even using it with the term "my Master" for she sure doesn't own Him ~grins~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ *nodding head as Mistress Kayla speaks... understanding that a girl does not own her Master*
Emerald Forest~~~ *it is a touchy word Kayla as I Myself would never pull up My slaves for saying My Master as I am their Master*
Quick Silver~~~ Ownership... words like "my", "mine"... should never escape the lips of the chainbound. Anything that has been allowed to them, is merely a temperance by their masters. Even the terms of possession... any possession, to the free of this life, is merely just another temporance... for even slaves can be taken... can they not?
Emerald Forest~~~ *anything can be taken if You have the sword to do it Quick Silver LOL*
Kayla~~~ I agree Emerald it is touchy... I am not sure until last night I ever even thought about it much but I think it sets a bad habit... it is just as easy to say this girl's Master *ss*
Emerald Forest~~~ *yep it would be Kayla but I think We should leave it as it is and just take each situation as it comes and teach from there*
vika{Marius}~~~ ~*thinking* on Master Quck Silver's words......aye, that is true.~
Emerald Forest~~~ *plus it all depends on the free as some might not mind the slave saying My Master or Mistress*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ *listening to Master QuickSilver's words.. nodding at the point He makes*
shirin{SholGar}~~~ ~*~smiles to Mistress Kayla~*~ aaa, shirin remembers reading something very specific about that in Dancer, but she'd have to go find the quote....it basicly said a girl would call her personal Master by "my Master"
Kayla~~~ ~smiles~ I would love to see the quote shirin *ss* but when speaking third person and a slave owning nothing is it a contridiction of terms?... LOL One of many of the books?
shirin{SholGar}~~~ aye, shirin will find it
it was a girl's understanding it was not a way of calling possesion to her Master, just naming Him as her Owner
~*~slips off to find the quote~*~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~
And she danced superbly for me, every fiber of her beautiful body straining to please me, her eyes, each instant, pleading. trying to read in mine her fate. At last, when she could dance no more, she fell at my feet, and put her head to my sandals. "Find me pleasing," she begged. "Find me pleasing, my Master!"
Raiders of Gor, page 117
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my Master extended his cup to me, and I, kneeling, filled it with Sul paga. I pressed my lips to the cup, and handed it to him. My eyes smarted. I almost felt drunk from the fumes.
Slave Girl of Gor, page 134
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“You are protecting me,” she said. “You are sheltering me. You are a true gentleman!You pretend not to be, but you are a true gentleman! Oh! No! What are you doing? I am on my belly! Only a slave is had in this position! No! Oh! Oh!”
“Do you still think I am a gentleman?” I inquired.
“No,” she said.
“What am I then?” I asked.
“my Master,” she said.
Renegade of Gor, page 228
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~
Slave girls, of course, may speak the name of their masters to others, for example, as in locutions such as, "I am the girl of Calliodorus of Port Cos," or "I come from the house of Colliodorus." It is only that they are seldom, in addressing the master himself, permitted to use his name. He is usually addressed simply as "Master," or as "my Master."
Guardsman of Gor, page 270
Errand Knight~~~ so my is aceptable when speaking directly to a girls Master but not about Him
Emerald Forest~~~ *true EK S*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ one thinks.. and she may be wrong.. that it means that.. she could still say *my Master* is such and such to another.. but a girl would not use her Master's name in speaking to Him..
slaves weren't permitted to speak their Owner's name to Them, unless permission was asked and granted...
Errand Knight~~~ jasma: but would you say for example of Lemuel to Me: yes Master EK, my Master is away buying timbers for His latest project
Kayla~~~ and we certainly give possession to slaves all the time.. as in How is your Master? when speaking to a slave... ~grins~
Emerald Forest~~~ *there are a lot of things that We say that could speak of slaves owning their Master but it is just the way that We have spoken for a long time but there are other ways that We speak of My that is not allowed by slaves*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ perhaps in a pm, Master.. *chuckling softly*.. openly.. since You're Free.. a girl would say.. *a girl's Master*
now to another slave.. she'd say *my Master*..
shirin{SholGar}~~~
Slave girls must address all free men as "Master". Commonly, however, the expression "my Master" when it is used, is reserved for the actual master of the girl, he who is her literal master, he who literally owns her. For example, when I was in Argentum it was proper for me to use the expression "master" to the man of Tyrrhenius, and indeed, to all free men, but the expression, "my Master", if used, would have been appropriate, suitably, addressed only to Tyrrhenius. To be sure, sometimes a girl will use the expression "my Master" to a man who is not her literal master, to suggest to him that he is to her even as would be her literal owner. Sometimes that is done in an attempt to wheedle with the male, or flatter him. It can be dangerous, however, as it might, say, earn her a cuffing.
Dancer of Gor, pg 421-422
Emerald Forest~~~ *ok I think We have tossed this topic around long enough,so the bottom line is,the free can chose whether they wish for a slave to say My Master or Mistress if it pleases them and if not then they are to be corrected*
Errand Knight~~~ interesting
I would not have thought refering to another as my Master would be appropriate ..but we live and learn
Emerald Forest~~~ *well if no one has anymore topics and since it is almost time for the forum to close,I will call this forum to a finish and hope aeveryone got something out of this S*
Kayla~~~ well EK that would be up to You *S*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ *listening*.. but also.. and this is just this one's opinion.. in GS.. even if a girl was conversing with another slave.. she'd say *this one's Master.. or jaz's Master.. * etc.. not *my* Master.. only to her Master..
one hopes that makes sense
Errand Knight~~~ nods at jasma ...I agree with you girl
Where's a tavern slave's home?
Emerald Forest~~~ *ok then here is the next topic,If the Tavern is not home to the Tavern slaves, where then is their home as no one person owns them?
akeria{Pergi}~~~ if slaves are own by the Tavern, isn't the Council their Master/Mistress's
Kayla~~~ slaves have no homes at all whether owned by a single person or the Tavern or not owned by anyone...
they do have a place and that is at the feet of Free but that place is not a right it is a priveledge that can be withdrawn at any time
akeria{Pergi}~~~ smiling at Mistress Kayla
Emerald Forest~~~ *the tavern slaves are still the same,if they are sold they go where they owner takes them but while there are tavern slaves there stay in the kennels below,so there never know where there are going to be from one day to the next*
akeria{Pergi}~~~ akeria is curious to ask, are Tavern slaves allowed to travel to other Gorean places?
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ *smiling warmly to akeria*.. GS white silks aren't to travel to other Gorean homes.. or it had always been in the past..
Emerald Forest~~~ *I always thought that no matter what colour silks there were jasma,they weren't allowed to go anywhwere else without permission from one of the Captains*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ *shaking head*.. good idea Master Forest.. *smiling*.. but one don't think so.. just the white silks.. unless they're taken to another Home by one of their Owners..
Kayla~~~ I think it is only white silks that are restricted in travel unless they have gotten in trouble and been restricted for some reason ~smiles~