Jarl Keeper proposed a special forum be held to address some issues confronting Gorean Shores. In order that Free Persons and slaves alike could think on the issues and be prepared He posted some questions on the cork board. The second purpose of this was that any who were unable to make it to the forum would be able to submit their thoughts.
Due to unforseen circumstances Jarl Keeper had to postpone the forum until 7/7/2014.
The following is the preamble to the forum:
Thread started on: 06/23/2014 at 01:47:33 by Jarl Keeper
Tal and Greetings to A/all
Some Ideas for Forum this Sunday 29th June 2014
(Monday morning 30th of June for some of Us!)
There have been a lot of ideas, thoughts and concepts put forward over the last few hands about one topic, that is;
How do W/we make O/our Home a better place and attract more people?
At the Forum on the 29th of June I propose that everybody arrives with T/their own answers to three basic questions listed below. That way W/we can discuss them in a mature and measured manner.
1/ Without naming names, making any disrespectful or pejorative comments, what are the main reasons Masters and slaves leave Gorean Shores?
2/ What can W/we (Council, Pledged and slaves) do to ensure that people continue to frequent the site?
3/ What can W/we (Council, Pledged and slaves) do to ensure that new patrons come to our site and stay?
If you are unable to come to Forum on Monday, please write an answer below and I will try to arrange for your comments to be included in the Forum.
Things to think about and consider when answering the three main questions.
Was there a 'Golden Age' of Gorean Shores, when it was more popular?
If so; what has changed to make Gorean Shores less popular than it once was?
Is technology and instantaneous communication making this site obsolete?
Is the site too strict?
Is the site not strict enough?
Is the training of slaves too rigid?
Is the training of slaves not rigid enough?
Are the expectations placed on slaves unrealistic?
As a Gorean site to what extent do We take slaves' needs into account when dealing with issues like training, buying, selling and ensuring a slave feeling fulfilled in her submission?
I realise that there are some huge questions listed above, but if people have an opinion and arrive knowing what they a going to say, I hope that will make forum run quicker and more efficiently.
I hope this Forum will give everyone a chance to 'have their say' and to 'clear the air'.
To quote the Forum Protocols;
"Most importantly enjoy the Forums and Gor!"
Jarl Keeper
Tanthio§ Reply #1 on: 06/25/2014 at 08:59:40
"Tal and Greetings to A/all"
"Some Ideas for Forum this Sunday 29th June 2014
(Monday morning 30th of June for some of Us!)"
"There have been a lot of ideas, thoughts and concepts put forward over the last few hands about one topic, that is;"
"How do W/we make O/our Home a better place and attract more people?"
"At the Forum on the 29th of June I propose that everybody arrives with T/their own answers to three basic questions listed below. That way W/we can discuss them in a mature and measured manner."
"1/ Without naming names, making any disrespectful or pejorative comments, what are the main reasons Masters and slaves leave Gorean Shores?"
Simple answer, its HTML chat, refresh, refresh, refresh. But that’s beyond the Taverns control. Lack of P/patrons mainly Free Persons and that is most likely why the Tavern slaves fade away, Nobody to service.
"2/ What can W/we (Council, Pledged and slaves) do to ensure that people continue to frequent the site?"
Another Simple answer, frequent the Tavern other then, Tues, (Book Club – Low attendance typically) Wed (Slave Class – typically more attending then Book Club) & Sunday nights. (Forum – Many typically attending but only a few posting while the rest are in Whispers). The other thing would be to spend some time in the Tavern afterwards rather than A/all running offline when it’s over. I’ve also noticed on the “CORKS” the banner flashes, “GAME NIGHT every first Monday of the month….. I don’t think there has been a “Game Night” in MONTHS! The same goes for the “ROLEPLAY NIGHT” every Friday. Has there been any in weeks?
"3/ What can W/we (Council, Pledged and slaves) do to ensure that new patrons come to our site and stay?"
Basically the same answer as question #2… Visit the Tavern other than those days/times more often. Even though I have left GS I still do tend to peek in and at times I see unknown N/names in but no M/members around so I imagine T/they take it as a DEAD Tavern.
"If you are unable to come to Forum on Monday, please write an answer below and I will try to arrange for your comments to be included in the Forum."
"Things to think about and consider when answering the three main questions."
"Was there a 'Golden Age' of Gorean Shores, when it was more popular?"
I’m sure there was but it was before I had pledged.
"If so; what has changed to make Gorean Shores less popular than it once was?"
Technology, as well as 0ther realms as “Second Life” where O/one can “Role-play” in 3D,
"Is technology and instantaneous communication making this site obsolete?"
I feel it is and has, O/one can be served or serve via text message or actual voice since most have unlimited text/voice plans these days on their cell phones, Tablet’s, etc…..
"Is the site too strict?"
No
"Is the site not strict enough?"
This depends on if One is dealing with a seasoned slave or a “Newbie”. It may not be strict enough for one but it may scare off an unseasoned slave.
"Is the training of slaves too rigid?"
I think GS does a fine job on training; in fact it seems that there are and have been a few that come from other site’s to get training then once they learn they don’t return or ever even visit the Tavern otherwise.
"Is the training of slaves not rigid enough?"
Once again, I think the training and T/trainers are doing a fine job, S/some may not agree but from what I’ve seen from their actions they are acceptable in My eyes as servants.
"Are the expectations placed on slaves unrealistic?"
Not from any “Role-playing” I’ve ever seen.
"As a Gorean site to what extent do We take slaves' needs into account when dealing with issues like training, buying, selling and ensuring a slave feeling fulfilled in her submission?"
Training issues - I think that has improved greatly. It seems these last several months the slave have gotten to progress their silk colors much quicker than in the past.
Buying & Selling – For the 2 years I was pledged I’ve never seen this ever done, I’ve tried to buy but with no response from the Tavern Council.
Slave fulfillment – Attend the Tavern and use them as they are there for their desire to serve, pay attention to their posts of services and reply back in a fashion other than just “Watching the girl”. Give a reply back to each of theirs with the same attention as they put into their post. This shows them that You are actually paying attention to their well thought out posts. (Just My Opinion).
On another note……
The first Tavern I belonged to had a “Play Room” with BDSM toys in it which was often used for “Role-play” and it was typically used for punishments as well as pleasure. Let’s face it, Gor is tied into the BDSM world in ways and some slaves do seek pain as their pleasure. This gives U/use another form of “Role-play” rather than just the repative drink serve and at times food services. There is rarely any “Sceaning” that typically gets taken into Ones Chambers.
'I realise that there are some huge questions listed above, but if people have an opinion and arrive knowing what they a going to say, I hope that will make forum run quicker and more efficiently.
I hope this Forum will give everyone a chance to 'have their say' and to 'clear the air'.
To quote the Forum Protocols;
"Most importantly enjoy the Forums and Gor!"
Jarl Keeper"
Tal & Greetings A/all
I won't be able to attend this Forum. so there are My thoughts.
I wish A/all well and safe travels.
T§
Thadron Reply #2 on: 06/25/2014 at 15:35:29
Keeper. Thank you for putting this out there so eloquently.
Tanthios. Thanks for your candid responses.
snowrose Reply #3 on: 06/30/2014 at 09:14:27
Greetings Jarl Keeper,
snowrose is sorry to say that she will not be able to attend the meeting. she will be going away for the long weekend and won't be back until Monday night.
Some say that online Gor has run its course, and people are drawn to other types of online entertainment. This is probably true, considering that there are few Gorean sites left. But many sites died from within, becoming lax, veering too far from Gorean values and winding up basically just another boring chat site. Let's not let that happen to Gorean Shores.
she has some ideas about how training could be improved and will discuss them with the Slave Master.
she does not think the training is too strict , but possibly too rigid. slaves are individuals. Maybe a slave's former training could be taken into consideration more. On the other hand, she has found that many slaves did not receive the level of training that GS provides. This is not a subject that can be discussed here.
A big problem in her mind is that the site is empty too much. There are people from all parts of the world here. And reading echoes, she sees that people pop in at all times of day and night. she thinks we all, Free and slaves alike, should try to spend more time here, and not just pop in and read the echoes and leave. slaves can do a chore to keep busy, and the Free can find something to ruminate about for a little while.
It's true that slaves are property, animals in this society. But it's unrealistic not to recognize that they have feelings, and since they are real people, an escape route. Some come with an agenda, and if it's not met immediately, they leave. Some are just playing at being a slave, running from one site to another when they don't get their way. A true slave comes here full of hope, wanting to serve, to dance, to be desired. we have those girls here and now, and their slavery needs to be nurtured. Only the Free can do that.
Most girls truly want to be mastered, to serve strong men who will accept nothing but their submission.
This is just one girls humble opinion, and as she has said before, "since You ask, Master".
Randolph Reply #4 on: 07/06/2014 at 05:02:52
Tal and Greetings to A/all,
I am unable to attend Forum but offer the following comments/suggestions for consideration:
1) I am only able to attend during ‘European times’ when numbers are thin in GS. Accordingly, I have spent time in Poolside.
I am quite astonished at the numbers of ex GS members who regularly visit PS. They number as many, if not more, than those presently in GS.
They tend to be reluctant to give details as to why they left GS, other than generalities (probably because they don’t know me very well). However, they do represent an invaluable source of information to find out just what the issues were for them in leaving.
Perhaps if they were contacted by GS members who know them well we could find out exactly what these issues are. A special night inviting them to a GS Alumni evening could also be considered for this purpose.
2) I am constrained by attending GS owing to my time zone. In my early days in GS there were usually quite a few Masters, FW and kajira attending – this seems to have now dropped off. We could try having a weekly ‘European’ night (open to A/all, of course ). This could attract new members from this side of the pond. There are 4 existing members whom I am sure would give this a go. Additional support from Oz and the US would be invaluable to try and make this workable.
I hope the above is a useful addition to the general debate.
Good wishes to A/all,
Randolph.
Hunter Reply #5 on: 07/06/2014 at 05:40:01
Tal and greetings
I wont be able to attend sadly...but hope it goes well and thanks to Keeper for this thread also.
Many questions yet I think in a sense very much a two part thing.
First is the Gorean specific and the second site specific.
The Gor related matters are well discussed often in forum over recent times and are perhaps the easiest to control.
All can better how we present the concept...and we can be tolerant also because no-one arrives on Gor with all the wisdom and skill possible.
Briefly I dont think its too strict nor is the training poor. We expect a lot as Free but what do we give back? That may well be the most important question there is.
Often what is given back to a hard working slave is insufficient I would say. Oh yes thats where the fact we are men and women in reality comes in.
As to the site side of things that requires mostly just that people spend time in GS. Yes even when its empty. We cant change the realities of the general decline of chat but if someone is there, in the tavern, a new person might stay.
And 'The golden age' is yet to come
Thorrn Reply #6 on: 07/06/2014 at 18:22:08
Thank you Keeper for putting up some important points to think and discuss about in GS and the Forum.
Thank you Tanthios for your input which is appreciated.
The technical part of the chat:
I like it as it it is, no permanent flow but just when i refresh the screen. That gives me better time to read and react. But i´m an old fashioned guy.
The training is not too strict. The whole place of GS is connected to the gorean books of JN and it would hit the base if that would be changed. Of cause this open to be discussed in the Forums.
A Golden Age of chat especially GS?
Sure - golden it is always the time which is already gone. That is valid for virtual and real life. The memory works that way and events of our youth are often nicer than those which are still going on and the outcome is still open. People don´t like uncertainity, problems which are solved are part of the Golden Age. Problems which are still going on are threatening.
How to keep people (Masters, slaves) in. The best is always when they find a personal relationship and are happy together. Then the site is great and chat is wonderful.
How to drag more people in?
Good question.
I hope we come close to something like an answer at the special Forum.
Jarl Thorrn, Captain
FORUM 7/7/2014.
Present:
Sandman
Thadron
Thorrn
Keeper
Dak
Kazar
Bretval
Lita
ruby
maddie-anne
peanut
shimmer
prissy
flicka
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 19:31:02 pm CDT
Tal Keeper My friend
Good to see YOu being in to guide Your special Forum tonight.
greetings little peanut
your knee needs a booboo kiss for making it heal?
*smiles*
Keeper of flicka 19:36:05 pm CDT
*News Flash*
Jarls cannot multi-task!
~Shuffling RT papers away, opening up docs and extra browsers.~
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:39:24 pm CDT
Mistress Lita. ~broad smile of pride~
flicka is now up to date with the forums, last week's forum was posted on the same day.
Although flicka is mea culpa maxima, regarding Book Club. ~dole look at Jarl Thorrn~ flicka for got to post it on the boards and only realised that she had done so today. It will be remedied.
Lita, Physician 19:41:59 pm CDT
Jarl, I have not yet checked out her skills and abilities.
Keeper of flicka 19:43:50 pm CDT
~Adjusting my cod piece.~
It is up to You Lita, but some of Us would like to see peanut un-restricted.
Just giving My opinion.
~Evil grin~
This is Forum after all.
Lita, Physician 19:46:12 pm CDT
Of course, Jarl Keeper. I always take the opinions of the other Free here into consideration. *grins*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 19:47:30 pm CDT
Tal Kazar, fine to see You and Parrot.
I open the forum of tonight.
Remember to keep chit-chat and welcomes in whisper from now on.
As Keeper made a thoughtful posting on the corks which has been raed by all, i hope, He will have the lead of the Forum of tonight.
Anyone who made up His/hers mind about the posting on the corks and wants to have ideas, critics and support to be discussed - whisper the topic to Jarl Keeper.
Keeper of flicka 19:47:45 pm CDT
~Nodding to Thorrn~
Time to get things started.
As per usual keep chit-chat to minimum, greet in private.
Pity the poor over-worked scribe.
To start with a reminder.
No naming names or pejorative comments.
In a moment I will post the first question.
I will also post My prepared ideas.
Lita, Physician 19:49:16 pm CDT
Alas. I have not had timer to read the corks. Daughter just left this morning so have been busy re-stocking the pantry and doing up dishes, etc.
Keeper of flicka 19:49:34 pm CDT
1/ Without naming names, making any disrespectful or pejorative comments, what are the main reasons Masters and slaves leave Gorean Shores?
In My opinion the reason people leave the site is motivation, normally negative motivation.
It is all about motivation.
It is a simple formula really;
Visit Site + Good Company + Positive Gorean Experience = Return Visit
Visit Site + Bad Company + Negative Gorean Experience = No Return Visit
Whether they be Slave or Free there is someone behind a keyboard somewhere looking for a positive Gorean experience. If, because of laziness, egotistical actions, self-centered behaviour or other negative trait a person does not get the Positive Gorean Experience they were searching for the chances of their returning to the site is lessened each time.
Keeper of flicka 19:50:20 pm CDT
Any have other reasons?
Thoughts?
peanut{Lita} 19:52:16 pm CDT
1....peanut has heard and experienced that except for role play in the tavern...there is veryt little else where...
where peanuts been, r/p included visits to other places as well as her home...just a thought
Kazar~infamous pirate 19:52:29 pm CDT
slaves leave mASTERS DONT RELEASE THEM THEY BECOME RUNAWYA SOME Masters left waiting too get pledeged
Keeper of flicka 19:53:47 pm CDT
Also; here are Tanthios' comments.
Simple answer, its HTML chat, refresh, refresh, refresh. But that’s beyond the Taverns control. Lack of P/patrons mainly Free Persons and that is most likely why the Tavern slaves fade away, Nobody to service.
Lita, Physician 19:53:57 pm CDT
I too feel that more real roleplay, not just serves and cybering, would pique more interest.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 19:54:36 pm CDT Visit Site + Good Company + Positive Gorean Experience = Return Visit
Visit Site + Bad Company + Negative Gorean Experience = No Return Visit
I think that is a very strong reason Keeper. I üosted soemthing similar as asnwer to your posting on the corks.
But i think there is something more about pepoplke coming in and leaving quickly .... maybe being Gorean and being a slave is a bit outdated? Just an idea what others may think about this, not My way of thinking.
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:55:15 pm CDT
Well flicka agrees with Your comments Jarl~smiling~ as if she would ever disagree with You. It is all about the experience one has, flicka had a good experience the first time she ventured into GS.
Oh peanut flicka could not agree more. Master Kazar do You remember that fun night You, Jarl and a slave and flicka had in the bathhouse, having a mock fight?
Keeper of flicka 19:55:40 pm CDT
In answer to Thorrn.
I pre-wrote this:
I spend 25 years in retail.
If a shop does not give you the product and service you want, in a timely manner...
Y/you go else-where.
Gorean Shores is the same.
It is all about motivation.
There are those who are absolutely certain they know exactly what people want without ever asking or even enquiring in any way what the person's needs are. They expect to be followed because they are Free and believe their opinion is correct.
Open a store without knowing what the market wants and the business will fail.
Gorean Shores is the same.
I am not suggesting W/we run Gorean Shores along retail lines.
What I am saying is if W/we fail to give people what they want, when they want it, they will not return.
It is all about motivation.
Keeper of flicka 19:57:02 pm CDT
In answer to peanut;
Yet another pre-write:
To My way of thinking one of the problems with the sight that is not spoken about is it has become very linear.
That is W/we tend to do one thing. Go to the tavern and get served or serve as the case may be.
Do the same thing over and over again becomes boring.
There are lots of rooms that are under-utilised, particularly the Bath House, Piazza and Training Yard.
By sitting in the Tavern W/we create a situation where people know how the interaction will run and choose to avoid it.
For example; Keeper is sitting the Tavern.
A slave sees this.
The slave, (that is the real person behind the keyboard ) thinks “Keeper will want me to serve ale in a tankard yet again done in the style that He likes it done yet again.”
CBF Moment. [CBF = Can't Be F###ked.]
Slave goes and checks out Yahoo.
There are variations on this scenario.
I do believe that being boring and repetitive is killing the site by slow degrees.
It is all about motivation.
Enough of My thoughts!
peanut{Lita} 19:58:14 pm CDT
peaniut once left scagnar island and traveled all over...it was extremely cool...had a great time...even met others to travel with...but there are still ways to r/p here on the docks or even in the streets...tho unsafe
Lita, Physician 19:59:37 pm CDT
So, Jarl Thorrn, if we are not to be Gorean here, slave or Free, what is the point of having GS at all? There are lots of other rooms based on other themes or no theme at all.
Keeper of flicka 19:59:42 pm CDT
Exactly flicka.
I really think all of U/us, Myself included, need to do different things.
Which, by default implies different rooms.
I have made a promise to Myself to take flicka on a shopping trip to the Bazaar!
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:00:01 pm CDT
Nods to Lita, more r/p would surely do well for the place.
We could start with capturing and collaring a FW? *ggl*
Na, You are right, that would make the place more interesting and make golden memories.
peanut{Lita} 20:00:04 pm CDT
nods to Jarl Keeper....exactly
Keeper of flicka 20:01:48 pm CDT
I see your point Thorrn.
I think W/we need to stay true to what W/we are Thorrn.
Maybe expand what W/we do within the frame-work of what W/we are:
Gorean!
ruby~{Randolph} 20:01:58 pm CDT
girl thinks perhaps review history..GS used to be a thriving Gorean site..disect what changed
maddie~anne{GS} 20:02:01 pm CDT
~ears perk up at the other pre-written reponse offered by Jarl~
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:02:16 pm CDT
Lita, i didn´t mean to change this place to a "usual" chat room.
This gor may be outdated was just looking for an explanation why the people who come in to GS and to other Gorean places sank so much.
Dak 20:02:30 pm CDT
When I first came to GS back in 2001, it was a thriving busy place, I don't remember an evening when there wasn't at least 20 people there, a good mixture of slaves and Free, and usually several Captains present, plenty of slaves to serve and entertain with sexy positions and serves, and when all were served, then maybe dancing, I had a slave for a couple months, that almost nightly would have a song or poem she wrote and shared , it was very entertaining, always from the beginning I was fascinated with the beautiful sexual, sensual, enticing serves.
All serves were done according to the serve basics in the manual, well organized, the only difference was the descriptions, the art of serving really is based in creative writing.
There was always plenty of chatter amongst the Free while the girls were busy, except during the Dances.
I think at that time there were 8 or 10 Free Women that Frequented GS .
Daytime was slow in GS, but usually there were upto 5 slaves there, which at that time was great for Me becuz I had annihilated an ankle at work, and was stuck at home for 2 months, most of the slaves were well experienced, and virtually taught Me the ropes of being a Gorean Master, plus the opportunity to watch all the experienced Masters that were part of GS at that time, of which they added a fifth Captain during that time.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:02:39 pm CDT
~wriggling in delight at His words~ oooh shiny things. ~looking at her Jarl~ You think that flicka can be bought by shiny things? ~laughs~ You bet she can.
Keeper of flicka 20:03:40 pm CDT
Good idea ruby, flicka and I have done so to a small degree.
However W/we cannot turn back the clock, to do so would be counter-productive I believe.
peanut{Lita} 20:05:01 pm CDT
giggles @ flicka...oh yes shiny things are good!
Dak 20:06:43 pm CDT
at that time, GS only had one room !
Keeper of flicka 20:07:48 pm CDT
It can be slow at time Dak due to time differences.
Randolph expressed the same concern with a solution.
One idea from Randolph is as follows:
1) I am only able to attend during ‘European times’ when numbers are thin in GS. Accordingly, I have spent time in Poolside. I am quite astonished at the numbers of ex GS members who regularly visit PS. They number as many, if not more, than those presently in GS.
They tend to be reluctant to give details as to why they left GS, other than generalities (probably because they don’t know me very well). However, they do represent an invaluable source of information to find out just what the issues were for them in leaving.
Perhaps if they were contacted by GS members who know them well we could find out exactly what these issues are. A special night inviting them to a GS Alumni evening could also be considered for this purpose.
ruby~{Randolph} 20:08:12 pm CDT
Jarl Keeper
agrees turning back the clock would be useless, even if possible, bower..reviewing where and how GS was run..could prove helpful
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:08:56 pm CDT
Reads Dak´s description of the time 4 years before My first visits to GS.
Well, the place was more lively in 2005/2006 than now but i never so so many people in here at once. A big difference to today was that the afternoons where not so dead like now, it was often a (not always) good for the European people to come in and chat.
ruby~{Randolph} 20:09:26 pm CDT
oh perks right up..smiling
Dak 20:11:14 pm CDT
I don't remember many Europeans back then, but quite a few Aussies !, *smiles*
Keeper of flicka 20:12:24 pm CDT
Saturday 7:30 PM in Australia is
Saturday 9:30 AM GMT, if memory serves that is
Saturday 11:30 AM Berlin Time.
A good time to whilst the New World is deep in slumber Thorrn?
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:15:08 pm CDT
Jarl Thorn `~` wonders what happened with Portus and one of the old Captains ` would be good too bring him back again
Keeper of flicka 20:15:08 pm CDT
So: idea number one:
A European / Australian meeting time.
Idea number two:
Use different rooms, A/all of U/us.
Idea number three:
Try to remember there is a real person behind the Gorean persona.
peanut{Lita} 20:15:15 pm CDT
eastern europe is what...6 hours ahead of ZGS time? and berlin time is 7 hours...peanut would need to be in at 9am and thats nearly impossible
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:15:38 pm CDT
Jarl, didn't Jarl Randolph also mention having a European/Australian session? Set at a time that really suited the old world and ahem the vibrant, alive, and smallest continent?
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:17:49 pm CDT
Dak, the european and the aussie chat times meet in a span.
That makes nice europ-aussie couples *g*
Yet the topic is not how wonderful the old times have been.
The topic is what to do today for interesting more people to visit GS and then make them stay in.
So WHERE to find gor-interested people?
I came from the DM in poolside where i met people from GS vsiting poolside.
I got curious what gor is and came in to see.
Where to find other people???
peanut{Lita} 20:19:06 pm CDT
its possible that if some of us r/p'ed a trip we could entice others from different sites to come visit...that might be a start
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:22:07 pm CDT
peant .... which other sites?
I only know about JAG where i have been (last time is years ago) but hardly ever meet anyone to talk to. and GoreanDreams which is sometimes very lively. But the people in there tied with empathy to their place and i don´t think any would want to swap to another place.
maddie~anne{GS} 20:22:31 pm CDT
it is hard to entice new O/ones to visit when there is unrest within the members...perhaps it may be prudent to visit T/those who have recently left with missives that ensure issues that made T/them leave in the first place would be addressed, in a timely and fair fashion (of course, assuming the reasons for leaving are not far fetched) ~whispers quietly in offering~
Keeper of flicka 20:22:54 pm CDT
Exactly Thorrn, and when W/we get them, keep them.
That leads into the next question.
In an effort to keep things moving I will post the next question.
I know W/we are rushing, but I will write a summery later.
ruby~{Randolph} 20:23:01 pm CDT
aye Jarl Thorrn
You know as well as girl, one mention of the Fogram realm, in the DM..gets ones head chopped off
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:24:05 pm CDT
At the moment it is Randolph and Me who are from Europe, i don´t know about more Masters or slaves.
Keeper of flicka 20:25:50 pm CDT
~Just before I post~
Don't forget Hunter and I in Oz.
Closer to Europe time zones than US
We can all interact at the same time.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:26:41 pm CDT
~coughs~ and flicka and aura.
peanut{Lita} 20:27:32 pm CDT
oh Jarl Thorrn there are many...peanut knows of several, on both sides of the pond!
Keeper of flicka 20:27:52 pm CDT
First and foremost.
There is an enormous difference between a Master and a bully.
A Master guides, leads and controls, therefore they provide a positive experience.
A bully harasses, persecutes and torments, ergo they provide a negative experience.
It is all about motivation.
I will not pretend to understand slaves that well, but I will say nobody likes a princess.
Also if there is to be changed to should be well considered, then done quickly and not drag out.
Keeper of flicka 20:28:37 pm CDT
Oops
Mea Cupla Maxima
TRY AGAIN STUPID!
peanut{Lita} 20:29:06 pm CDT
well peanut goes home once in awhile...then she'd be in the right time zone...winks to Jarl Thorrn
Keeper of flicka 20:29:08 pm CDT
2/ What can W/we (Council, Pledged and slaves) do to ensure that people continue to frequent the site?
First and foremost.
There is an enormous difference between a Master and a bully.
A Master guides, leads and controls, therefore they provide a positive experience.
A bully harasses, persecutes and torments, ergo they provide a negative experience.
It is all about motivation.
I will not pretend to understand slaves that well, but I will say nobody likes a princess.
Also if there is to be changed to should be well considered, then done quickly and not drag out.
peanut{Lita} 20:29:59 pm CDT
nodding lots to Jarl Keeper...be a Master means more rthan just knowing Gorean culture...
Keeper of flicka 20:30:21 pm CDT
And a personal point, even punishment of a slave can be positive if don't right.
Nagging and carping is rarely positive.
Keeper of flicka 20:30:41 pm CDT
Could not agree with peanut more.
ruby~{Randolph} 20:33:06 pm CDT
peanut
your original Home was the Isle of Scagnar?
peanut{Lita} 20:33:44 pm CDT
aye ruby....
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:34:14 pm CDT
~note to self to fix up Jarl Keeper's typos~
Even though our home is not a BDsm site, it is a Dominance/submission site, and to that end, punishment when a slave has done wrong is an integral part of the role playing experience, flicka is nor speaking of desultory whipping here along the lines of . "There slut take that, and ouch Master ouch stop this girl begs You"
But meaningful punishment designed to not just enable the slave to grow but also the Master to grow into His Mastery.
maddie~anne{GS} 20:35:28 pm CDT
~eyes glance to the flickering one before she nods with affirmation of the girl's words~
peanut{Lita} 20:35:35 pm CDT
smiles to flicka...peanuit has had some very harsh punishments and some that were just down right crazy
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:36:19 pm CDT
ruby
Portusd and Sophie are pledged to GS but i don´t count them as regulars anymore since a long while.
They are welocme but they don´t come in besides passing through to the corks or a very quick hello from Mistress Sophie.
peanut
you know about may more from Europe?
That would be great to make up a european jour fix to meet, of cause open to all from wherever.
Keeper of flicka 20:36:51 pm CDT
I gave My opinion but that is merely one persona's idea based on one set of experiences.
Something from Randolph really caught My eye.
They tend to be reluctant to give details as to why they left GS, other than generalities (probably because they don’t know me very well). However, they do represent an invaluable source of information to find out just what the issues were for them in leaving.
Perhaps if they were contacted by GS members who know them well we could find out exactly what these issues are. A special night inviting them to a GS Alumni evening could also be considered for this purpose.
peanut{Lita} 20:37:55 pm CDT
smiles to Jarl Thorrn...yes Jarl that would truely be great!...its not out of the realm of possibilities Ya know!
ruby~{Randolph} 20:38:08 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn
humbly begs to differ with You
my Jarl and a girl, Master Portus and Mistress Sophoe are in quite often
Lita, Physician 20:39:17 pm CDT
One issue with asking former GS members at poolside is that there are a couple who were more or less "invited" to leave GS. Do We wish to make them think they are welcome back by inquiring of them as to why theyleft?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:40:15 pm CDT
And yet even in here, in an open forum where we are trying to address issues, and also be positive and explore new ideas, people seem to be reticent to air their ideas and points of view.
Lita, Physician 20:40:22 pm CDT
And yes, Portus and Sophie drop in often during the day, because they are in the UK. but, again, there are rarely an y others in when they are.
Keeper of flicka 20:40:56 pm CDT
Why don't W/we be brave and ask people who have left the site;
Why did you leave?
If there is a common thread then we at least have an idea why people leave.
know of one slave who left because she could not tolerate the inequity of one slave's bratiness being laughed off whilst she was punished for a lesser offence.
You could say "well that's Gor"
But it reminds us there is a person behind the keyboard with emotions.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:41:52 pm CDT
flicka
This is Gor and BDSM though things are overlapping in many ways. That is how Wwe see it and tolerate BDSM but it is not how many (most) people form BDSM and the DM of poolside see it. I remember well, like ruby mentioned it already, that there is not much love form the Poolside people to Gor. The subs are often crazy about not being looked at as slaves.
prissy(MV) 20:41:55 pm CDT
*smiles softly hearing Jarl Keeper*
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:42:23 pm CDT
Mistress, flicka would think that if there are people whom the Council has asked to leave, then we should not be inviting them back. That is unless The Council rescind Their decision, and flicka would think that would take weighty thought on Their part.
peanut{Lita} 20:42:47 pm CDT
then perhaps we should work on that
ruby~{Randolph} 20:43:28 pm CDT
aye Jarl Keeper..brillant..thus find out..what in the dickens..went wrong, along the years
it may be difficult to hear..however it sure can't hurt Kazar~infamous pirate 20:44:48 pm CDT
seems we keep going back thinking the way things where rather than the way they are question s how to be more proactive make this a fun site again more role playing more dancing ~~` and grins
peanut{Lita} 20:44:52 pm CDT
Jarl Keeper we could pose that question to the DM or pool boards and see what happens
Keeper of flicka 20:45:03 pm CDT
Maybe asking people to return should be treat with caution.
However;
The line from Randolph that got My attention was this;
"However, they do represent an invaluable source of information to find out just what the issues were for them in leaving."
So the point is not do you want to come back, rather why did you leave?
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:45:14 pm CDT
smiling flicka the Council doesn't typically ask anyone to leave GS. The Council does on occasion ban people for violating our rules and it usually takes pretty severe and repeated violations for that to occur
Dak 20:45:36 pm CDT
many slaves can not handle the idea of a Mater being able to own more than one slave, I've encountered this problem frequently !
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:46:05 pm CDT
I hear you ruby
It is just not what i experienced aver along time, to see them being in. May be that changed lately and i didn´t notice.
I will try to have a new look on this.
*S*
ruby~{Randolph} 20:46:08 pm CDT
girl is fairly respected in the DM..with my Jarls permission of course..perhaps a girl can do a few inqueries
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:46:17 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn, flicka was speaking of here, not Poolside. Part of Gorean Mastery is encouraging His slave to develop, and by that flicka does not mean merely "rote" learning of the minutae of a serve, but learning to listen to and believe what her slave belly is telling her.
Keeper of flicka 20:47:53 pm CDT
Before I became a Teacher, I spend 25 years in retail.
If a shop does not give you the product and service you want, in a timely manner...
Y/you go else-where.
Gorean Shores is the same.
It is all about motivation.
If you open or run a store without knowing what the market wants then the business will fail.
Gorean Shores is the same.
I am not suggesting W/we run Gorean Shores along retail lines.
What I am saying is if W/we fail to give people what they want, when they want it, they will not return.
Let's find out why they did not come back to O/our store. (Gorean Shores)
It is all about motivation.
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:48:41 pm CDT
I don´t think it would be agood idea to post any GS-question on the DM or poolside board. That would probably more trouble than helping GS anything.
prissy(MV) 20:48:42 pm CDT
priss was a former GS slave... she did not ask to leave but rather was purchased... when that Owner removed His collar.. she was set free.. she had to option of returning.. yet she did not... and she will tell you if you will allow her to...
Dak 20:49:03 pm CDT
well, I don't believe Gor can remain Gor bending with the winds !!
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:49:32 pm CDT
Aye Master Kazar, time to get out of the Tavern and smell the dina flowers.
peanut{Lita} 20:49:48 pm CDT
nods...perhaps
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:50:29 pm CDT
~wanting to hear prissy~
ruby~{Randolph} 20:50:53 pm CDT
Jarl Thorrn..of course not publically..discreetly
peanut{Lita} 20:51:09 pm CDT
go prissy
Keeper of flicka 20:51:10 pm CDT
I agree Thorrn.
maybe something a bit more informal might be better.
Less confronting.
Just ask people you know why they left.
Anonymously report the reasons to a central point and collate that data, see if there is a trend.
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:51:31 pm CDT
flicka grins
prissy(MV) 20:51:39 pm CDT
while she respectfully asks that you do not ask of her former persona..she will disclose her thoughts from her perspective...
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:52:45 pm CDT
prissy you are aware that flicka is scribing this forum?
Keeper of flicka 20:52:49 pm CDT
No-one is bending to the winds Dak.
Merely looking at improvements.
Nothing stays the same for ever, even empires rise and fall.
prissy(MV) 20:53:56 pm CDT
*soft blue eyes gaze around the room and a tender smile lifts the corners of her lips, taking a deep breath*
there was a time when the tavern flourished.. it was during the time when Rollo the Ax was Captain... it was years ago... most everyone is gone now... priss was brand new... she knew of nothing.. (more)
Dak 20:54:07 pm CDT
how can it change without bending to the winds , which refers to the winds of change !
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 20:55:40 pm CDT
go ahead prissy
*S*S*S*
in privacy and discrecy it is good to ask people why they left and give a kind of report to GS about this.
prissy(MV) 20:57:45 pm CDT
an Advisor.. not yet made a Captain.. had eyes for this one... and He opened her while she was a white silk... He played game after game with her... and she was so naive... He was an Advisor of Shores... ... she trusted Him... as time went on.. priss struggled through everything...not with the knowledge of Gor... but with trusting... she lost trust in everyone.. her Masters of Shores... and her sisters...
Keeper of flicka 20:58:17 pm CDT
I will post the last question now.
Again I will post My ideas.
And after that some thoughts from snowrose and Tanthios that relate to the topic.
I know it is getting late for some, but I would really like to see it through, then summarise.
Keeper of flicka 20:58:39 pm CDT
Yes exactly Thorrn.
Keeper of flicka 20:59:03 pm CDT
3/ What can W/we (Council, Pledged and slaves) do to ensure that new patrons come to our site and stay?
What is the difference between a HNG (Hopelessly Non Gorean) and a Gorean Master or slave?
About two weeks of the correct type of mentoring.
(I know this from personal experience.)
W/we were all noobs once.
Remember that.
If they get it wrong, remember this simple formula;
Visit Site + Good Company + Positive Gorean Experience = Return Visit
Visit Site + Bad Company + Negative Gorean Experience = No Return Visit
It is all about motivation.
The corks.
Post, make it look active and they will come.
Yes there are very few Gorean chat sites left.
However if GS is the most active and the best, it will be the one that survives, or at the very least survives the longest.
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:00:01 pm CDT
Bending to the winds infers that one is willing to compromise one's principles. There is a vast difference between bending to the wind and looking at practices and saying how can we improve them.
Flicka also goes back a long way Master Dak, and she remembers some mighty None Gorean practices being touted at The Real Gor. Everyone said they were the Real Gor, and while none had vampires ~winks at Mistress Lita~ many were not very Gorean at all. But some changed as they became more adept at portraying Gor online. Others fell by the wayside.
Keeper of flicka 21:00:27 pm CDT
Some really insightful thoughts from snowrose on the topic.
A big problem in her mind is that the site is empty too much. There are people from all parts of the world here. And reading echoes, she sees that people pop in at all times of day and night. she thinks we all, Free and slaves alike, should try to spend more time here, and not just pop in and read the echoes and leave. slaves can do a chore to keep busy, and the Free can find something to ruminate about for a little while.
It's true that slaves are property, animals in this society. But it's unrealistic not to recognize that they have feelings, and since they are real people, an escape route. Some come with an agenda, and if it's not met immediately, they leave. Some are just playing at being a slave, running from one site to another when they don't get their way. A true slave comes here full of hope, wanting to serve, to dance, to be desired. we have those girls here and now, and their slavery needs to be nurtured. Only the Free can do that.
Most girls truly want to be mastered, to serve strong men who will accept nothing but their submission.
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:00:54 pm CDT
Our home should not be stagnant!
Lita, Physician 21:01:12 pm CDT
Jarl Keeper, Your remark on empires rising and falling kind of saddens me, for I fear that is what is happening to the "empire" in which we live, r/t, right now. They say that no Democracy has lasted more than about 200 years, and we have lasted that long and a bit more, and I fear we are showing signs of crumbling now. Sorry to deviate from the topic.
Keeper of flicka 21:01:46 pm CDT
And Tanthios:
"3/ What can W/we (Council, Pledged and slaves) do to ensure that new patrons come to our site and stay?" Basically the same answer as question #2… Visit the Tavern other than those days/times more often. Even though I have left GS I still do tend to peek in and at times I see unknown N/names in but no M/members around so I imagine T/they take it as a DEAD Tavern.
prissy(MV) 21:02:15 pm CDT
*she hushes her voice.. *
peanut{Lita} 21:02:29 pm CDT
would it be productive to advertize...Fetlife is full of Masters and slaves...we could found our own page and advertise the home
Lita, Physician 21:02:40 pm CDT
snow makes some very good points there.
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:04:49 pm CDT
prissy please continue, please.
shimmer{GS}~t~ 21:06:04 pm CDT
truth be told shimmy has thought alot about leaving lately herself..
has even looked around..
there are so many places to play Gor really if you look around shimmy knows of about 10 different active sites she could go to..
but she committed to being here.. this is home..
but those do feel like there is no way out shimmy can see them leaving.
Keeper of flicka 21:07:04 pm CDT
There is a reason very few people speak Latin any more.
The language was too rigid and could not adapt.
Dictum Factum.
The Republic of San Marino is the oldest Constitutional Democracy in the world. it started 1st Oct 1600.
After the Glorious Restoration the United Kingdom could be called democratic, that was 1660.
So they do last Lita.
prissy(MV) 21:08:14 pm CDT
*smiles softly hearing shimmer*
dedication to one's Home is what keeps it alive...
Keeper of flicka 21:09:31 pm CDT
prissy, I was hasty.
Please continue.
Keeper of flicka 21:09:47 pm CDT
I am always hasty.
~laughs~
Lita, Physician 21:10:22 pm CDT
And I sometimes think, Keeper, that in some ways we might be better off if we DID still speak Latin! *grins*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:10:23 pm CDT
San Marino an Imperium ... hhhmmmm .... a tiny version of empire
Lita what i fear more about the USA empire that it will not stay for long a democracy anymore, it is on the way back to the McCarthy times, and worse.
prissy(MV) 21:10:40 pm CDT
after this one was finally bought by the Advisor... He continued to play His games... there was a Captain here.. Captain Thadron... yes.. remembers Him well.. *soft smiles*... believe it was Him that gave council to this one during the months before He bought her... (more)
peanut{Lita} 21:10:44 pm CDT
looks to Jarl Keeper...THE us seen alot of court battles on our right to free choice...as your aware obama has taken that right from us with his health care thingy
Keeper of flicka 21:12:37 pm CDT
No Lita, no more declinations for this Jarl.
prissy(MV) 21:13:50 pm CDT
this one was so naive and gullible... she was warned by many... at any rate that is one reason why she did not return... for He was still around... thinks He may have left shortly after that... after that.. prissy tried and tried to return but her heart was sore from the hurt that was caused... she was lost.. very lost.. her actions and her behavior was not of a slave... it was.. shall we say.... obstinate?... deviant... (more)
prissy(MV) 21:16:04 pm CDT
*soft blue eyes gaze to Master Thadron and she smiles tenderly*
this one was a fighter... she was so angry... so angry that she allowed herself to be taken advantage of... so angry that the Advisor had taken her opening away from her... because believe it or not... a girl's opening is extremely dear to her heart... (more)
Keeper of flicka 21:18:56 pm CDT
Clearly people need to leave, and the topic is slowing down.
Positive action that can be taken as I see it.
Feel free to add to My list.
Start a European / Australia roleplay time.
Try to be an active member.
Remember there is real person behind the keyboard who is looking for something out of Gorean Shores.
Talk to people and find out why they left, if you want to email the reasons to; Keeper1209@gmail.com
Keeper of flicka 21:19:36 pm CDT
Sorry prissy, I did it again!
~Slapping My wrist!~
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:19:38 pm CDT
in my humble opinion our troubles have an continue to stem from one issue-- this is a chat site. people come here to chat,, if there is no one here to chat with they don't see any point in staying. I can tell you in the past there have been slow times when people complained about "No Captains are here-- that is the source of all of our ill's".. and then I sat here checking every 10 or 15 minutes for hours with no one coming in
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:20:11 pm CDT further some have left in the past due toi various and sundry conflicts best not resurected
prissy(MV) 21:20:35 pm CDT
there was a concept here that slave was a slave and that was it...
it was rare for the Captains to sit down with the slaves and speak with them... prissy means really really speak with them... a Master guides.. He teaches... and though He does not allow Himself to engage in the squabbles of slaves... He attempts to find out what is causing the behavior of the slave... He does not turn His back on her... *looks to her hands... *... prissy was gone for a very long time... and she returned as a visitor... why did she return?... hope.. she found flicka and maddie anne... *smiles gently, looking up.. *
she was not met with drama.. she was met with kindness and sparkling eyes...
Dak 21:21:30 pm CDT
I have spent days here waiting for someone to come in and no one came ! I figured I had BO!! *smiles*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:21:47 pm CDT
People being in and chatting (in a gorean way) is wjat must be going on in here to make this place alive.
prissy(MV) 21:22:26 pm CDT
priss has a new Home that is dear to her heart... and she hopes with all her heart that she is able to always return to visit here...
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:24:13 pm CDT
smiling and I appreciate your comments prissy GS is a Home that has had folks leave and come back to over time
Keeper of flicka 21:24:32 pm CDT
Yes Sandman, the Captain are the Leaders, it is easier for people to blame the leader rather than get off their collective butts and do something about it.
One of the things I did not want to do is have it descend into squabble about Captains.
If it is not right, do not rely on others to fix it for You.
ruby~{Randolph} 21:25:15 pm CDT
girl admits to long discussions with Captain Sandman and former Captain Ramses, about returning to GS..they were most helpful..and girl was most grateful
then girl met her Jarl..thus her decisions were gratefully no longer her own
prissy(MV) 21:26:00 pm CDT
*she smiled softly to Captain Sandman*
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:26:18 pm CDT
as for one of the other issues discussed in many past forum's -- "the need for more rp" .. that requires free to be here and each of us to make an effort to interact in that way
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:28:21 pm CDT
~spoken very very softly, knowing she is going a little against what her Jarl has just said~
flicka thinks that the Captains could be a little faster in making decisions.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:28:24 pm CDT
Thank you for sharing, prissy. You are welcome any time
prissy(MV) 21:28:32 pm CDT
well.. that's all priss had to say about that.. *smiles gently*.. she holds no grudges.. she is in a good place in her heart now...
prissy(MV) 21:28:54 pm CDT
lol flicka
peanut{Lita} 21:29:21 pm CDT
smiles...thats great prissy
Keeper of flicka 21:29:32 pm CDT
Finally getting a chance to read back over past posts.
Mmm, some words of wisdom from prissy
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:29:53 pm CDT
prissy, from the first time that flicka greeted you, she has been proud to have a friend in a fellow Gorean slave.
prissy(MV) 21:30:16 pm CDT
*she smiled softly back to peanut*
prissy(MV) 21:30:56 pm CDT
*she blushed hearing flicka, *
Keeper of flicka 21:32:33 pm CDT
Technically you are not going against what I was thinking flicka.
The Captains provide Leadership.
I put administration in a different 'box'.
As you know, I am a RT Leader.
Not such a magnificent administrator, unless pushed!
(As you are aware, more than most!)
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:32:38 pm CDT
prissy, thanks for sharing and you know you are welcome to be in again.
Juts one thing i´d like to ask. I understood your story as a misbehaving Man diappoitning the expectations and loyality of a slave. That was not well done and a Master should handle a slave better but that is the fault of a single person.
How is this related to a structural behaviour or habit in GS?
prissy(MV) 21:32:53 pm CDT
*she squeezed flicka's hand and smiled*
and so is priss
Keeper of flicka 21:33:43 pm CDT
~Nodding, agreeing with Thorrn.~
prissy(MV) 21:34:43 pm CDT
*thinks about His question with deep thought, looking up at Him with a tender gaze*
nothing and everything Jarl Thorrn... it is what You take from it...
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:35:25 pm CDT
Ah Administration, perhaps the Captains need a good secretary slave. ~chuckling, then going all gooey at remembrance of the film The Secretary~
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:35:28 pm CDT
perhaps so flicka
Keeper of flicka 21:35:33 pm CDT
Unless, someone has something further to add I will declare this Forum closed.
Thank You everyone for your constructive comments.
I will post a thank you on the corks later.
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:36:11 pm CDT
laughing I am sure your Jarl will remind you Gor isn't BDSM based on your comment about The Secretary
prissy(MV) 21:36:13 pm CDT
LOL flicka! a favorite movie of prissy's!
ruby~{Randolph} 21:36:14 pm CDT
smiles to prissy .. plays Devils Advocate perhaps, there was disappointment on both sides
Keeper of flicka 21:36:28 pm CDT
~laughing~
Mmm
W/we might watch that tonight flicka.
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:36:41 pm CDT
well done Keeper.....thank you for leading and to flicka for scribing
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 21:36:43 pm CDT
Thank you for leading, Keeper... flicka, thanks for scribing...
prissy(MV) 21:37:06 pm CDT
*blue eyes lift and she smiles sadly to ruby*
yes.. perhaps there was... this one is not excusing her actions from the past...
peanut{Lita} 21:37:17 pm CDT
thank You Jarl for leading...its been informative and thought provoking
thanks flicka...winks
Dak 21:37:33 pm CDT
Thanks Keeper for leading, and flicka for scribing !
Keeper of flicka 21:37:42 pm CDT
I know Sandman, but don't deny Me some entertainment!
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:37:52 pm CDT
My Jarl may flicka as an addendum to the Forum, post the words of Master Tanthio§, Master Randolph, Master Hunter,Jarl Thorrn and mistress snowrose at the beginning of the forum notes when she posts it to the web page?
prissy(MV) 21:37:59 pm CDT
she thanks You Captains for allowing this one to be here.. thank You Jarl Keeper.. as always, it's a pleasure to engage with You all
*smiles deeply*
Jarl Thorrn - Captain 21:38:35 pm CDT
Thank You Keeper for making up the special topics for tonights Forum and for leading it
Thank you for scribing flicka
*huggsss*
Keeper of flicka 21:38:54 pm CDT
Yes flicka, truly W/we have been together too long? I was just going to post that!
prissy(MV) 21:39:22 pm CDT
*grins watching Jarl Keeper and His flicka*
Bretval, Merchant 21:39:53 pm CDT
The movies was about control... Gor is totally about control... the essence is what matters
shimmer{GS}~t~ 21:40:29 pm CDT
thank you for leading Jarl Keeper
thank you for scribing flicka
Keeper of flicka 21:40:39 pm CDT
~Catching the kiss.~
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:40:39 pm CDT
~ooozing into the hug of Jarl Thorrn, wondering why He never gives Jarl Keeper a hug~
Keeper of flicka 21:41:05 pm CDT
Exactly Bretval.
Bretval, Merchant 21:41:54 pm CDT
My thanks Keeper and flicka
Keeper of flicka 21:42:31 pm CDT
~Looking at Thorrn~
I will settle for a big Jarlie handshake if that is fine with You Thorrn!
~laughing~
Keeper of flicka 21:44:51 pm CDT
Goodnight to All that are leaving.
And thank you so much for supporting the site and this Forum.