i would like to thank sis zoya{MKS}FG for doing the notes for me this week.. it was most appreciated
Defending a Free Woman
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Ok, well it looks as if we have a full quota, and since the Senior Captain is not here this day I have been asked to fill his boots ~L~ As we are a little late, lets get this show on the road...The forum is now open...
Anyone for a topic?
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Ok regular rules are in place lets keep discussions not pertaining to the forum in whispers and all people may come and go at their leisure whilst the forum is in effect..
Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~L~ I find it hard to believe that there is no topics to discuss...So I will give one...
The topic is when a FW is defended against a another man, does that FW's life go into the hands of her defender?
Kayla~~~ ~snorting under the veils as I sit listening for comments~
Lemuel~~~ ~hearing the first topic~ Aye Captain. I believe that is what it says in the books.
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**sits quietly as she really can not add anything to this subject**~
SabreWolf~~~ according to the codes,yes,,smiles
Shadowglade~~~ I think that is something that can be decided by the Man depending on why He was having to defend the Lady in the first place.. For example if She was acting like a slave and He is honor bound to protect Her then if anyOne should kolar Her it should be Him.
galah{RA}~~~ but you was a FW ja`dain, was you protected by One as a FW or was you enslaved by Him?
Mandi~~~ Would that depend upon the relationship that exists between the FW and Her defender. Family members would defend Their FW from outsiders, and the laws protect FW against being taken.
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Aye Lemuel, in the books and within the Codes of the Warriors is if a warrior defends a FW with His life, then that FW is then under his power. He can either let her go, or He may kolar Her...
I know many place differ online, but would this only be true for the Warrior Caste?
SabreWolf~~~ I would defend a Woman with My life,,agreeing with her or not in the matter,,smiles,,but then I feel She'd be beholding in some manner of my choosing
jacia{GS}~~~ listening intently
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Well, galah...when FC'd to Master DarkLord...ja's neck stayed bare...and with Master MuadDib...let's just say it was a willing face stripping...so can't really say. It was never defending ja...just putting her in her place.
Mandi~~~ ~~smiles~~ But aren't those bound by the Code of the Warriors a select, proud few?
galah{RA}~~~ laws protect FW? family might protect their young females, but an adult FW? a girl only ponders this question
SabreWolf~~~ Mandi ,,You sure?according to the books if I defend her,,technically,,if it pleases Me I own her
talender{GS}~~~ ~listens quietly~
Shadowglade~~~ Aye Mandi those of the Warrior Caste *ss*
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding at the Captains' comments~ In "Tarnsman" I believe it says that any Man defending a woman with his life expects for his life to be his afterwards.
Mandi~~~ galah...within their Own cities from Ones who would practice chain luck captures.
That would be correct, Sabrewolf.
Kayla~~~ ~sitting back crossing My arms~
Bolt Sarakai~~~ I think it goes into the the whole fabric of gorean culture. Women, the majority of Men feel, are slaves, even though they respect the FW she is but a woman who is not yet slave. If I defend a FW then regardless of My Caste I would assume to do what I would like with Her ~S~
Markos~~~ listening with keen interest to the discussion, knowing the 3rd scrolls say the same thing,
galah{RA}~~~ even a well protected Tatrix could be stolen and taken, she would belong to those that stole her....that would take much planning as she would be well protected, but it did happen in the books
Asellus~~~ *Moving inside, quietly settling next to Mandi as She listens to the topic and thoughts being spoken*
SabreWolf~~~ Gor is a Man's world,,always,,while We have honor,,and it'd be our choice to kolar her or not,but those same codes,,if a woman begs kolar,,we are obgliated to kolar or kill her,,
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Kayla, Lady, have You anything to offer on this topic? ~L~
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**nods in agreement with galah**~
galah{RA}~~~ it was brought up one day in slave discussion that there are many more FW on gor than there are slaves....galah found this surprising even with her many years on gor, for she thought that slaves outnumbered FW for sure, most the talk of the books is about slaves
galah{RA}~~~ that part of the Tatrix being stolen.....what this one left out, is that the Tatrix did not belong to those that protected her
Lemuel~~~ ~hearing galah~ Aye, there is a quote about the number of FW to slave and it is a very high ratio.
jacia{GS}~~~ sis galah...in the books, it says jaci can't remember where that the FW on Gor do outnumber the slaves....dunno why though
Shadowglade~~~ *smiling at the Captain* Be that as it may Brother.. In the books often it is stated that FW are treated with deference and with extreme respect.. Sometimes more than what one Warrior may accord to Another. I think that detail never made it on-line and that saddens Me.
Asellus~~~ Hmmm. *smiling, digesting the info*
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ “Are most Gorean women slaves?” she asked.
“No,” I said. “Indeed, statistically, in those parts of Gor with which I am familiar, very few. Commonly only one woman in, say, forty or fifty is a slave. This varies somewhat of course, from city to city. The major exception to these ratios is the city of Tharna, in which almost every woman is a slave.” I looked at her. “There are special historical reasons for that,” I said.
“But over a large population,” she said, “there would be literally thousands.”
“Of course,” I said.
Beasts of Gor, page 246
galah{RA}~~~ this one thinks the hard online thing to FW, different to the books and Master has tried pointing this out to many...is that many times FW of the books got very mouthy, those online think if a FW steps out of line once, being mouthy, that they can enslave her for doing so
Lemuel~~~ ~smiling at the FG as she posts the appropriate quote~
Bolt Sarakai~~~ I know why...If a civilization has too many slaves then that civilization will collapse from within... A slave can not bear a free person, and free people is what this culture is all about.
And that's true Shadowglade...The FW treated with much respect and deference...But they are only a Women after all...And yes I will treat a FW with respect, when she crosses the line then I may take another line of thought on the matter ~S~
Gornt~~~ Diversity better not ever come to Gor
Kayla~~~ I agree that it depends on the reason... If a Man comes in and is treating My home and then a Warrior comes in and protects Me from this Person... I owe Him My life?... I think not... I did not do anything to put My life in jeapordy... He is defending His Home not just a Woman.. and He pledged this when He pledged to GS... ~sitting back and being quiet once more~
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ But Master Shadowglade ~**speaks softly**~ FW who got out of line, even though perhaps tolerated for the time being, eventually all ended up in collars. Seems like Gorean men had very good memories.
So even though FW were treated with respect, it was only while she deferred to a degree to a FM...or so ja'dain percieved it anyways.
Markos~~~ looking and smiling to the ever talented jasma
Asellus~~~ *Nodding at Kayla agreeably*
Mandi~~~ Gornt, Gor is an entire world--and it takes all kinds to make a world. There are those who aspire to high ideals depicted in the novels.
Additionally, in online Gor, there will be persons at different levels of learning and skill.
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Yet Kayla, had it not been for the Warrior that is pledged coming in and defending You, You would probably be in a kolar or if You didn't submit, possibly dead... With online this law of Gor might have its grey areas, but in the books it is pretty clear
Markos~~~ knowing to Lady Kayla's words, is not the FW of the Tavern not of the Tavern and in so protecting Her, One Protects the Tavern,
Lemuel~~~ ~nodding to Kayla~ I agree that under those circumstances your life would not belong to your protector. As pledged patrons We must protect the tavern and its patrons
Gornt~~~ I was jesting, I will be quiet now
SabreWolf~~~ defending the tavern is not defending the F/W,,smile,and Our neutral policy and rules make little need to defend the tavern,,cause according to the GS rules,,3 council members have to be present for any bouts concerning honor or death,,
Bolt Sarakai~~~ So I pose the question, if one wasn't of this Home, and yet came in and saved a FW's neck from the kolar, what would happen then? Would it be up to the defender to do as He will?
Shadowglade~~~ I would agree that in the books that FW were often kolared by the end of the chapter but usually not until They had gone so far over the line that the Man kolaring Them had no other choice but to do so in order to make His point.
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**just sits quetly and listens**~
talender{GS}~~~ ~listens with interest learning alot from the discussion~
Asellus~~~ Ummm....*clearing Her throat carefully, thinking*....does it matter whether She asked for the Man's help? Would it be deemed entirely cowardly of Her to, say, runaway? Leave the tavern and the situation?
calia{Sabre}~~~ her eyes lowered ,listening and inhaling the wise words as ones head snuggles on Masters' thigh........
Mandi~~~ ~~listening intently for a response to Asellus' question~~
Markos~~~ interesting points being made
Kayla~~~ Hmmmm I would hope that the Council would take in to account that the Man was not of GS and the FW was... maybe the reasoning was bent say to the Man's perspective... It would depend I guess on the circumstances
SabreWolf~~~ I feel She'd want the situation that led up to this ended,,as in,,She picks her defender,the challenge has already be made by the offended(whatever reason),,then a time is set according to the GS rules for a spar,,in My opinion
galah{RA}~~~ as in online to Master Shadowglade, galah remembers Mistress Shield Maiden, it wasn't her first comment at being mouthy, or even her second time of being mouthy...but after many many times of keeping it up, She found a collar about her neck
Kayla~~~ Hey Guys ~smiling at those Men present~ I hope that no One pulls steel too quick to protect Me... I would rather run away to be kolarless another day *ss*
zoya{MKS}FG~~~ ~*~peeks up breifly taking a breath, trying to listen and absorb as she writes~*~
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling at Lady Kayla's remark~
Asellus~~~ *Tilting Her head at the mention of a former FW She was Friends with* She was mouthy? *trying to remember*
Shadowglade~~~ *raising an eyebrow at the FW then nodding to galah* indeed girl as it should be
Asellus~~~ My sentiments exactly, Kayla. *nodding*
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**laughs**~ Yes she was, Mistress...just like ja'dain was.
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~softly speaking~.. and even if at the time the Free Woman may not had been collared.. the Male still had a right to *reprimand* Her if She got out of line..
"Be silent, woman," said Genserix, angrily.
"I am a free woman," she said. "I may speak as I please."
"Do not seek to interfere in the affairs of men." said Genserix.
She faced the group, standing on the other side of the fire. Her feet were spread. On her feet were boots of fur. Her arms were crossed insolently upon her chest. "Are there men here?" she asked. "I wonder."
There was a rumble of angry sounds from the gathered warriors. But none did anything to discipline the girl. She was, of course, free. Free women, among the Alars, have high standing.
Mercenaries of Gor, page 54
----------
The same free woman.. a bit later along this passage:
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"Disgusting! Disgusting!" cried the free woman, Boabissia, in her leather and furs, having returned to the fire, and she rushed forward, a stout, thick, short, supple, single-bladed quirtlike whip in her hand. She began to lash Feiqa, who fell to her knees, howling with misery, a whipped slave. "We do not allow such as you in an Alar camp!" cried the free woman. Feiqa put her head down. Again the lash fell on her.
I leaped to the free woman and tore the whip from her hand, hurling it angrily to the side. She looked at me, wildly, in fury, not believing I had dared to interfere. "What right have you to interfere?" she demanded. "The right of a man who is not pleased with your behavior, female," I said. "Female!" she cried, in fury. "Yes," I said.
Her hand darted to the hilt of the dagger she wore at her belt. I regarded her evenly. She, frightened, quickly removed her hand from the hilt of the dagger, crying out in frustration, in rage. The she lifted her fists and, with the sides of them, together, struck towards me. "Oh!" she cried, in misery, in frustration. I had caught both her small wrists. She could not begin to free them. "Oh!" she cried in misery, in protest, as, inexorably, slowly, I forced her down. Then she was kneeling before me, her wrists in my grip. I turned her about and flung her to her belly, and then knelt across her thighs. I removed her dagger from its sheath. "No!" she cried. I then, with her own dagger, cut her clothing from her body.
"Binding fiber," I said, not even looking, just putting out my hand. Some was fetched, a length of some five feet, or so, and, in a moment, with one end of the fiber, with a few loops and a knot, her wrists crossed, her hands were secured behind her back. I had tied her tightly, utterly helplessly, as I might have a slave. "Help!" she cried out to the warriors. "Help!" But none stirred to render her assistance. I then reversed my position on her body, kneeling now facing her feet, across the small of her back. I pulled her ankles up, behind her body, at an angle of about fifty degrees, and crossed them. I then, with the free end of the binding fiber, extending back from her wrists, tied them together, tightly, fastening them to her wrists. "Please!" she cried to the warriors but none leapt to accord her succor. I then lifted her up, in effect kneeling her, and then bent her back, her head back in the dirt, that the warriors might assess the bow of her beauty.
Mercenaries of Gor, pages 61-62
galah{RA}~~~ hhuuummmmmmmm, if a Tatrix was stolen and then enslaved, then her city goes and finds her, claims her back, is she Tatrix again? if a FW is stolen from GS and enslaved elsewhere, her homes' Masters goes and finds her, she can come back as the FW she was?
Markos~~~ looking down to My zoya working so, very pleased with her,
SabreWolf~~~ so,,Yall tellin Me,,You'd rather not deal with it?,,I'm not saying it has to end in a Woman;s kolaring,,but it is an option,,payment could just as easly be friendship,,
talender{GS}~~~ ~likes those quotes jasma just shared~
Asellus~~~ *reading the quote* I can see the lesson in that one: Don't piss off and belittle the Free Men and then later call for Their help.
talender{GS}~~~ Not all FW who are enslaved are allowed back in GS as FW, it depends doesn't it?
SabreWolf~~~ it takes a Council vote tal,,
talender{GS}~~~ ~nods softly~ that is was tal thought Master
galah{RA}~~~ but tal, being enslaved by One from GS, or being stolen and enslaved by someone not of GS, there lies the problem, or is it a problem? my Master always says that GS lives by GS rules, but what if someone not of GS comes and does something?
calia{Sabre}~~~ ~*enlightened smile after reading~* thx mistress.....
Kayla~~~ Sabre *ss*... I am saying that If I need help I will ask but of One that I am pretty sure of the payment to be extracted... ~smiles~... I have been in bad places before and have had the protection of steel ~smiling at Shadowglade~ but I would rather die than be enslaved and it would be better the killing blow by One that I do not call Friend or Family ....
Mandi~~~ I hope such a situation never arises.
talender{GS}~~~ galah why should it be a problem? enslaved is enslaved regardless who did it or where it happened.
calia{Sabre}~~~ ~*worried gaze,looking to tal~* but to be taken from ones' home????
Kayla~~~ ~smiles~ then the capture I guess would have to be ruled on by the Captains of GS... ~smiles~ again I hope the Captains will favor the Person of GS and not Those from elsewhere unless the Woman was really extremly out of line *S*
SabreWolf~~~ they are subject to GS rules galah,,We have the right to override nonconsentual roleplay unless it's in accordance to the rules
I know Kayla,,smile,,and I'd have no real reason to enslave any of My Friends,,they'd have to really ask for it,
jacia{GS}~~~ listening intently
talender{GS}~~~ ~shrugs~ gor isn't fair calia, FW or slave all women are at risk at one time or another aren't they?
Shadowglade~~~ Well, From One, Who has enslaved a FW from GS in the past, when I was NOT of GS, I can also say that it really depends on if the FW wishes to appeal the situation by appealing to Her own ruling body....*shrugs* in the case of the Lady I kolared....She found that she enjoyed the life of a slave far better than the life of a FW, and is still a slave today...
Markos~~~ nodding to Sabre's words, I think Any Pledged Patron who did not Protect the Lady as part of the Tavern, is not a Warrior, what if She was of a city being attacked, and the Warriors defending it, are They expected to run through the streets and kolar any FW because they saved Her from being killed or enslaved,
Lemuel~~~ ~looking to Bolt~ I finally found the quote I was looking for in regards to the topic. It was in "Renegades" not "Tarnsman"
Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Looks to Lemuel~
Excellent, would You care to post it Mate?
Markos~~~ Lemuel, that is also in Priest Kings,
Lemuel~~~ ~nods to the Captain~ Aye, here it is.
On Earth, as I understand it, there are certain romantic notions about, for example, that heroes may expect to "win" damsels in distress, so to speak, by the performance of certain heroic behaviors, behaviors which, for example, might bode little good to dragons, evil wizards, wicked knights, and such. These damsels in distress, once rescued, are then expected to elatedly bestow their fervent affections on the blushing, bashful heroes, and so on. Needless to say, in real life, to the disappointment, and sometimes chagrin, of the blushing, bashful heroes, this denouement often fails to materialize.
Although such notions are not unknown on Gor, the average Gorean tends to be somewhat more practical and businesslike than the average hero of such stories, if we may believe the stories. For example, the damsel of Earth, if she found herself rescued on Gor, might not have to spend a great deal of time gravely considering whether or not to bestow herself on the rescuer. She might rather find her wrists, to her surprise, being chained behind her, her clothing being removed and a rope being put on her neck. She might then find herself hurrying along on foot, beside his mount, roped by the neck to his stirrup. If he finds her pleasing, he might keep her, at least for a time. If he does not, she will be soon sold.
Renegades of Gor, pages 99-100
jacia{GS}~~~ *smiles @ Master Lemuel's quote*
Lemuel~~~ ~hearing Markos~ I had a specific one in mind and could not recall where I had seen it. The one from "Renegades" is the one I was thinking of.
Lemuel~~~ ~looking to the Captain~ I did find the quote that Markos was refering to if you would like me to post that as well.
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Most certainly Lemuel, it will be good to have in the discussion notes ~S~
Lemuel~~~ ...to save a female's life is in effect to win title to it, for it is the option of a Gorean male to enslave any woman whose life he has saved, a right which is seldom denied even by the citizens of the girl's city or her family. Indeed, there have been cases in which a girl's brothers have had her clad as a slave, bound in slave bracelets, and handed over to her rescuer, in order that the honor of the family and her city not be besmirched.
p.161 "Priest-Kings of Gor"
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Excellent Lemuel, My thanks...
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Well ok it seem we have covered this topic well, and given our different points of veiw...In the books it is clear on this subject, online is a different altogether. All I can suggest is to the FW dont always expect the rules and protocols of Your Home to defend You in all situations. And if a matter does arise then the Council will deal with it...
Disney Gor
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Ok, how about we go to the next topic?
Mandi~~~ What is the best answer to guests who come in from the Tavern from elsewhere and make references to "Disney Gor."
Lemuel~~~ ~raising and eyebrow~ Disney Gor????
galah{RA}~~~ perhaps tell them that Mickey Mouse went that a way, why don't you go follow him heheheheheheheheheheee hehehehehehehee
jacia{GS}~~~ ohh jaci is very familiar with that term...before she came to GS, that was a common term where she came from.....she thinks it is an ignorant term and usually refers to Those who "downplay" Gor for lack of better words...
talender{GS}~~~ ~laughing at galah~
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**chuckles and nods at galah's comment**~
jacia{GS}~~~ LOL galah :)
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ jacia...there *are* some Disney Gor sites out there though....
jacia{GS}~~~ . ohhh trust jaci she knows that is why she left them :)
ah{RA}~~~ ooops, that would be for You to tell them Mistress Mandi, not galah, she couldn't tell them that as much as she would like toooo heheheheheheee
Mandi~~~ ~~laughs lightly at galah~~
Given FW status and the point I am in the learning curve, I have neither the skill nor the knowledge to come back at that one, though I do wonder why such Persons would even come over then
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Disney Gor can stand for those sites that don't closely follow the books, make up their own rules and such...I have seen some sites that allow women to be warriors and slaves are more like princesses than actual kajira
Shadowglade~~~ *snorting at galah's words, chuckling softly* Usually Lady, I would merely ignore someone speaking of such a thing in describing GS...*shrugs* because they obviously have never been to "Disney Gor"....I have travelled much in the past, and some sites are far more BDSM based, and gorean only in name....these some have called "Disney Gor" because they "play" at being Gorean, but have either little or no interest in learning about or from the books....
I would merely ignore someone calling My home such...*shrugs again*
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Oh, Master Bolt...you forgot the Gorean Vampires...and the Gorean fairies...~**snorts**~
Markos~~~ *LOL* @ galah's witty remark,
jacia{GS}~~~ agrees with Master Shadowglade wholeheartedly
Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~Laughs~ I guess I did ja, but then again I also left out the 8 foot axes and the larls as pets as well ~LOL~
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Mmmnnn...this is true, Master Bolt ~**laughs softly**~
jacia{GS}~~~ ~snortgrowl~ jaci has even seen some FW having children outside of Companionship !!
Markos~~~ *LOL* @ the conversation,
galah{RA}~~~ went to a site once that the slaves lazed about sipping on slave wine heheheheheheheheee heheheheheheheheee
Mandi~~~ On a bright note, I think that there will be good things happening in Gor as ALL of the books will be released as eBooks over the next two years. Plus two new ones.
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Or slaves being freed while being pregnant, jaci, to then be enslaved again once the child is born... ~**shakes head**~
Mandi~~~ Here, Kayla has to insist upon the slaves taking but a small dose of slave wine.
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**laughs as she hears galah**~ They had NOOOOOO clue as to what slavewine was, eh? ~**shudders at the thought of the sip root drink**~
Asellus~~ Ohhh. *groaning as ja'dain speaks* Yes, that's terrible!!
jacia{GS}~~~ agreeeeeeeeed jaja annoying !! *rolling eyes*
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Like that would happen...~**snorts and winks to Mistress Assellus**~ Yes, some slaves were freed to become FC's....but...*they were not freed merely during pregnancy*!!!!
Kayla~~~ Speaking of slavewine...~looking at jasma and galah~ tis past time...I hope all the girls are ready for double doses....~grinning~
galah{RA}~~~ double doses???? why should galah need it at all Mistress, NO One uses her anymore!!!!
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**clamps her teeth shut tight as she hears Mistress Kayla speak...silently gagging**~
jacia{GS}~~~ ~makes icky faces~
vika{M}~~~ ~vika holds her nose~ Double?~
Kayla~~~ ~smiling~... well past the first of the month girls... I had not forgotten... had you? ~smiling sweetly~
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ Forgotten isn't quite the right word, Mistress........
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ if the effects of slave wine last way over a month and sometimes it's indefinite.. then why do we have to take it monthly?
Kyoto~~~ *Pushing open the double green doors and pausing to try to catch up on the conversation.*
Eight foot axes and pet larls?
Lemuel~~~ ~hearing jasma's question~ To remind you you are a slave and that your breeding is up to the Master/Mistress.
Markos~~~ looking to Kayla, wondering how many of the girl's are now pregnant *LOL*
zoya{MKS}FG~~~ ~*~peeks up at Master,shaking her head begging for no double dose of slavewine, wrinkling lil nose~*~
Kayla~~~ ~smiling at the First Girl~ Did you not read My article last month dearest?.... it is by decree of the Captains to remind the girls of their slavery *ss*... and just to torture you too ~wicked smile~
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ yes Master Lemuel.. ~lowering eyes
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ aye Mistress Kayla.. a girl did read the article..
Markos~~~ nay zoya, you have plenty of chores without having to be pregnant as well, if the Lady says you need a double, so be it,
looking to leezra, you will as well girl
leezra{MKS}~~~ ~dark brown eyes lowered ~ yes Master
zoya{MKS}FG~~~ aye Master ~*~whispers, still writing tiressly~*~
Bolt Sarakai~~~ That's Disney Gor for you...
Reminding a slave of their place
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Is there another topic up for discussion?
Asellus~~~ *Shaking My head, turning towards Bolt in anticipation of another topic*
galah{RA}~~~ galah's subject she would like to bring up....does GS have the best of slaves on all of Gor, or are the GS Masters just so tolerant? galah honestly can't remember when a girl was last put to the post here, not even a cuff or a tug at the hair....
galah has spoken to some of the slaves recently, and without using names, some thinks it has changed here since the departure of the tough Masters like Master Kli Kodesh, and not changed for the better either...**soft sigh** sometimes this one thinks the "family" attitude as overpoured to deeply....for this one has seen FW and other Masters stand up to a stronger Master, saying that a girl need not be treated in that way
talender{GS}~~~ ~listens to galah's question~
galah{RA}~~~ a girl in GS could easily forget her slavery....it's sometimes hard to even get a swat on the ass **looks and giggles to Master Bolt Sarakai** well, except from a few
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Interesting topic galah...
My point of veiw is that we have excellent slaves here. Although, there is a lack discipline I see in some attitudes being displayed by kajirae here. I remember pulling up a certain slave the other day when she decided to look upon Me without My permission ~laughs~
calia{Sabre}~~~ nodding in agree with galah ~* calia needs the strong hand and mind to "overpower" her to feel the burn of her slavery...~* this girl savors a good "switch dance" ...*biting her lip*
Kyoto~~~ I agree galah, it's gotten to the point that I will just avoid the room. *shrugging* Getting tired of certain things going on and having others take a slave's side over a free persons.
talender{GS}~~~ ~nods listening to galah~
this one didn't even get the usual taste of whip when she was put in the GS collar.. is that not done in here anymore?
galah{RA}~~~ it's good to have "friends" and "family"...but when in GS, the girls are just slaves and should be treated as such, just a thought as this one tries to sort out herself and her own reasons for not coming to GS as much as she use tooo....sure the girls are taught to offer drink, and some FW complain about lazy slaves....what happened to a Free Person demanding a drink before a slave even offers? if a girl is in GS, she better be willing to serve
Kayla~~~ So you are saying galah that the slaves miss being beat?... that they think that they have done things that they should be beat for?... Should the girl then beg for her punishment?... is it bad to care for the slaves?.. to protect them and cherish them?...
galah{RA}~~~ yes tal, it's still done to a NEW slave, it's to make her feel her slavey, but they think an old slave knows that already so they don't require it
Bolt Sarakai~~~ I feel that if more people were to read the books they would understand that slave can be punished by any free. Sometimes a slave only has to be slightly displeasing to receive punishment. Even here in GS, we will allow a cuff or a kick, even tieing to the whipping post, by any free...Further punishments have to be given by the kajiraes Master.
BladeBane's ja`dain~~~ ~**agrees with galah**~
reseka{GS}~~~ shakes her head thinking just perhaps GS does have better than avarage slaves and there be no reason to beat them.....
vika{M}~~~ vika nods in agreement with galah's words.
Shadowglade~~~ *looking to galah chuckling* Oh, I don't know little one, I remember one slave I Myself put to the post once for refusing to serve One...I have no problem doing so again if need be....or more if necessary as well....
calia{Sabre}~~~ softly she speaks~*
not wanting to be beat...but wanting to feel that scrutinizing gaze ~* feel the worry of being found pleasing.... calia is always busy when not in service ~*
finds many of her sisters lounging...~*shruggin..
unsure ,but would one have done this in her old (icky) home...she would have been whipped......
Asellus~~~ The Free must remember to adhere to all the individual restrictions for each kajira, though. That becomes taxing to keep up with.
elicia{KS}~~~ Master Bolt Sarakai,that cannot be true for some Master's state that Their slaves cannot be punished by Any,only one's Master or Mistress
Kyoto~~~ Kayla, slaves are property... plain and simple, they are not here to be coddled, they are here, in a paga tavern, to make money for the tavern. To be found pleasing to all who enter. If a tavern on Gor coddled it's slaves and didn't force them to work and be pleasing at all times, it would go broke from slave upkeep.
talender{GS}~~~ even an older slave needs that reminder at times galah.. might as well put this one out to pasture if she has Noone to keep the fire stoked or to punish her when she is displeasing and with tal's mouth surely she is not always pleasing.
Bolt Sarakai~~~ A slave is a valuable asset or commodity, but put in cotton wool and kept safe and warm??? ~Laughs~ I dont think so, they are but property and should be treated as such.
galah{RA}~~~ no slave wants to be beaten Mistress....how can this one make You understand, a girl cherishes being loved and cared for....perhaps the slaves here are so well trained and obedient that they don't require more....but Mistress, might be hard for You to understand, a slave needs the touch of a Master, even if it's a pat on the head, or the ass heheheheheheheee all the Masters here throw a girl on his shoulder to head to an alcove, and that's fine, even heeling behind him is fine, but sometimes a girl wants to be grabbed by her hair and dragged there heheheheeeee bet that sounds strange to You Mistress Kayla?
Asellus~~~ ....And I have seen numerous slaves being rather unproductive. *gazing about the room* But when once a girl was chastised, in r/t she didn't understand and the problem had to be ammended.
vika{M}~~~ That is so true tal...so true.......
reseka{GS}~~~ having run the gauntlet in GS from day 1 all this one can say is that beating, punishing, and demeaning a slave only deadens that slaves belly.....this is VT not RT
calia{Sabre}~~~ ~*shuddering reading Master Sarakai's words~* - listening intently.....
Gornt~~~ I believe in behavior modification using the crop when appropriate
jacia{GS}~~~ listening and learning :)
Kyoto~~~ Well, galah, isn't there a quote in one of the books where Tarl brought a slave home and she didn't feel comfortable until she was bound to the whipping post for her first whipping in her new home, per the traditions of Port Kar?
Bolt Sarakai~~~ elicia, no Masters restrictions will stop Me from cuffing or kicking a girl, she is but a slave, she is not equal to a Free, and thus will not get words to protect her if she is found displeasing. And believe, the Master, or Owner, I should say, will be informed and I will make the girl in question beg him for punishment, as this is only fitting for a slave.
galah{RA}~~~ this one knows many of the Masters are busy and don't have the time to alcove and that's all good tooo, but how many Masters here even think about reaching over when a girl serves him a drink and giving her a big ole Masters kiss, a deep forceful nearly cutting the lips kindda kiss? it use to be done much and now never
Gornt~~~ but I believe to just wail on one because One is a Master and the girl is just a slave is not right
elicia{KS}~~~ Master Bolt Sarakai wouldn't that be going against the slaves Master restrictions? what good are restrictions if they are not followed?
calia{Sabre}~~~ nodding as calia listens to galah~* how cherished a touch is by a Masters hand , a side~ways glance .... or a word of praise ...makes a girls belly brew with desire to try harder...at least for calia......
talender{GS}~~~ agrees with Master Bolt
Kayla~~~ ~blank staring eyes looking at galah~ that notion is totally foreign to Me,I agree that slaves are property, but do I not lovingly rub oil in My grandmother's antique loveseat? or wash and brush My dog's hair after I bathe him? One can still love even if it is property ~shrugs~ I can but only be Me
~turning to Kyoto~ I see Your point, but Some go out of their way to be extremely harsh, and that I feel is more BDSM than Gorean
Kyoto~~~ *Glancing at calia and then back to galah*
I wouldn't say never, galah, if the serve is pleasing, I've been known to bruise a girl's lips in a kiss before.
calia{Sabre}~~~ leaning close to whisper to elicia ~* calia's Master too has such restriction ~* however ..when calia was found displeasing by Master Sarakai last week ...you better believe her tush was crawling from slave class back into the tavern to beg..~* as she only lives if she is found pleasing by all Free......
zoya{MKS}FG~~~ tal, this one knows that all too well, she needs to be reminded and feel Master's strength over her ~*~looking up to Him~*~
Bolt Sarakai~~~ elicia, I say this, what good is having the Master on Gor in the first place if he doesn't follow the books? Some restrictions are pathetic. As a free individual in rt, you made the choice to be slave in online gor, when you enter a gorean chatroom, you had better expect to be treated as such. There will be no hiding behind restrictions that allow you to get away with being unslavelike..Simple I feel
galah{RA}~~~ even a restricted slave could not be restricted just for a kiss, could they? sexual restrictions mean just that, further sexual activity....this one has always been slave, always will be, but in GS she feels less like a slave than she ever has, another reason besides her health she gave up the FG position
Shadowglade~~~ *raising an eyebrow at galah* never?
Markos~~~ thinking of the whipping I gave zoya just the other night in this very Tavern for being displeasing, and I would do it again, looking to leezra, you could be next girl *LOL*
Lemuel~~~ ~listening to the different points of view~
Kyoto~~~ Agreed Kayla, ultimately, on-line Gor, whether we like it or not, is a different kind of BDSM, but, we don't look for pain sluts here, nor do we expect a man to come here with the intent of dominating a slave through force. There is a power exchange between a slave and Master/Mistress. One of trust, because the life of a slave is deeper, the desire much stronger than that of a mere sub.
calia{Sabre}~~~ licking her lips*~ winkin at galah ...
whispering...calia gets kisses *winkin at her*
reseka{GS}~~~ knowing that slaves are a dime a dozen to most, this one knows of many good and hard working slaves that have been run from GS for never having had a good word said to then or a kind thing done to them, and only being punished as a way of any attention was ever shown them, this one feels it is more a Master problem than anything she feels this has become a cyber room more that anything she has read of Gor, Gor is more than cybering and more than beating
Asellus~~~ Then, couldn't you, as a slave, beg for a kiss, galah? Can't you utilize the larma like I have so often heard??
talender{GS}~~~ ~smiles softly to zoya~
it is not easy to find that strength, least not for tal. takes a certain kind of Man to truly overpower her will. which doesn't make for such a good slave alot of times. hehehehe
Mandi~~~ Aye, reseka, there is a lot more to Gor...a whole range of experiences.
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ The whipping had convinced her that she was under discipline. This understanding, of course, goes far beyond the mere pain of a particular episode. The whipping in itself, though of considerable moment, is significant when compared to the lesson it teaches. It teaches the girl that she is at his mercy, and is owned, truly. This fulfills something very deep in the female. This is the lesson of the leather. This is not to deny, of course, that a woman who is fully conscious of her imbonded condition, does not fear the whip. She does, for she knows what it can, and will, do to her if she is not pleasing. The only woman who does not fear the whip is she who has not felt it.
Rogue of Gor Pp 131
galah{RA}~~~ yes calia, galah agrees with you, just a certain glance, a tender touch even, so many lil things can make a girls' belly burn to serve and please....but that is not being done here in GS lately, and it's sad....we serve and get the customary "thank you slave, your serve was pleasing, you're released to serve others now" it's like tellin your pet dog to go lay down and not bother you? but there's still nothing like having a strong hand grab a girls locks and kissing her with only the kiss of a true Master can
Lemuel~~~ ~listening to galah's words and thinking back to a certain kiss...~
calia{Sabre}~~~ knowing that sinking feeling when one is told she is pleasing ~ but swooshed away.....*nodding to galah*
only makes the Masterly kisses,touseled curls or words of praise by Those that do , mean ever more.........
galah{RA}~~~ heheheheheeeeee ohhhh yes Mistress Asellus, galah could indeed beg for a kiss, if any of the Masters would let a girl within ten feet of Them hehehehehehehehee
gor is indeed more than cybering and beating reseka, but alcoving/furring and being whipped are ALSO a part of Gor that seems as GS is forgetting about, to this ones' thinking anyway, perhaps this one just ain't seein the punishments and such cause she ain't here as much as she use to be
Gornt~~~ I always reward a slave who has pleased Me with an especially sensuous or elaborate serve
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Most of Us Free are not here to punish slaves, but it must always be remembered that perhaps the best way to remind a girl of her place, other than a dressing down, is the plain and simple cuff. And if I find a girl pleasing enough, I will take from her a slave kiss...Or swat her arse ~laughs as I look to galah~
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to galah... surreptitiously glancing to Master Lemuel.. keeping eyes downcast.. smiling in rememberance of a kiss after a serve~
Shadowglade~~~ I don't know galah, I find a slave who bemoans her place constantly less attractive...*shrugs* Why should I kiss a girl who does not please Me? I am Master...am I not? then is it not also My right to decide I do not wish a girl? is it also not My place to choose to totally ignore a girl if I so choose? Does this make Me a weak Master? or One who merely has other things I would rather be doing?
I appreciate a slave who remembers she is slave, and know's that whatever should happen to her is subject to My will...and I know slaves have needs, and in the books often begged to be used when their need was great...*shrugs* I have never seen that done in online Gor....
vika{M}~~~ vika feels that it is much more than cybering as well...however, a Master is the Master...and what the Free says goes...PERIOD...no lip or back talk...it just is......and in fact there was cuffing, kicking, the use of the switch, and loving and tender moments...BUT the one thing the slave knew....she was slave............the whip was felt and she did not wish it again.
Kyoto~~~ *Standing and walking to galah, pulling her to her feet by her hair and kissing her, showing her in the ferocity of the kiss that I am not afraid to come close. Breaking the kiss and looking at her...*
Is that waht you were looking for?
*giving her an impish wink*
reseka{GS}~~~ galah GS has not forgotten furring nor has this one, and whipping is also part of Gor , but there is much more to Gor, and it seems the main focus in GS is slaves fighting over whose back hits the furs next, and the girls seem to forget the other parts such as working and conversations and caring for a Master/Mistress and their homes
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Well galah, your topic has been well noted. I for one have been growing fed up with the lack of discipline I see at times in here and have said to Myself, and let this be a warning to the slaves of GS, I expect absolute obedience from the kajira here. And a kajira, well, she should be pleasing at all times, as, her life depends upon it.
vika{M}~~~ vika disagrees...she sees slaves working and conversing...dancing and serving...not just furring......
galah{RA}~~~ well, all this one knows, is she keeps trying and trying to come home, she does her best to be pleasing, so she surely isn't looking for a whipping, in all this ones' years on gor, she has only been whipped twice she thinks, long long ago....so it's not the lack of being whipped that's a problem, it's just a general lack of attitude in the tavern that leaves galah feeling empty and her slavebelly a mere smoulder, fearing of it leaving completely as she cries behind her screen
calia{Sabre}~~~ hearing Master Sarakais' words ,her slender fingers curl ones' collar ~ feeling her throat swallow past the confine ..calia speaks.....aye Master.......
vika{M}~~~ Actually, her life does depend on it...*grins* Thinking of her warning from her Master....
talender{GS}~~~ ~nods agreeing with vika~
zoya{MKS}FG~~~ ~*~looks up to galah, knowing exactly how she feels, touching belly beginning feeling a fire rage again~*~
galah{RA}~~~ **she falls to the floor in a heap, rubs the back of one hand over her lips to collect the slobber there, licking it from her hand to relish every drop** thank You Master Kyoto, yes galah did need that hehehehehehehehehee now where was she? heheheheeee
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Ok, we have almost reached our two hour time limit...Has anyone got anything further to add before I call this forum to an end?
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ aye Master Sarakai
Bolt Sarakai~~~ ~looks to jas~ Then speak up first girl
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~shaking head~.. sorry Master Sarakai.. she's nothing else to speak of.. she was just saying aye to Your words about only absolute obedience shall be shown by the slaves of GS..
Bolt Sarakai~~~ Well I think we are all over now, so I will close the forum. I wish to thank all for turning up and offering their opinions...
reseka{GS}~~~ a girl thanks You for the Forum tonight Master Bolt
talender{GS}~~~ no Master Bolt, thank You for holding the forum tonight
Lemuel~~~ ~grinning~ My thanks Captain for an interesting forum.
calia{Sabre}~~~ thank You Master Sarakai for leading our discussion , as calia always leaves learned and enlightened ~*
i had found these quotes after the forum to support the topic spoke about
Sometimes a girl is whipped when she is first brought into a new house. It is regarded, in some cities, including Victoria as a way of making clear to her that the house in which she now finds herself is a house in which she is a slave. Rogue of Gor, page 129
"You whipped me well," she smiled, kneeling in the shallow stream, pouring water on her body. "You whip well," I commended her. "Thank you, Master," she said. The sexually responsive woman whips well. This is probably a function of the high degree of her skin sensitivity and the depth and vulnerability of her feelings, tier sensitivity and responsiveness make her peculiarly helpless under the lash. She who writhes best under the lash, so say the Goreans, writhes best in the furs. Savages of Gor, page 230
And now I have been put in whipping position! I am being introduced into a house, in which I am to be a slave. My mysterious master must, thus, be of Victoria, or of some other city in which are practiced the customs of the capture carry and initiatory whipping!" The point of these customs, of course, is clear. The girl knows that she is carried into the house as a helpless slave, and then, in the initiatory whipping, learns that it is a house in which she is under discipline. These are thought to be a salutary lessons for a new girl, when she is first introduced into a new house. To be sure, whether in Victoria or not, or in a city with comparable customs, new girls, in one way or another, are usually reminded, promptly and effectively, that their slavery is uncompromising and actual, and that they are fully at the disposition of their masters. Guardsman of Gor, pages 200-201
"I want him to whip me," she said. "Why?" I asked. "Because I love him," she said. Kajira of Gor, page 288
Some women desire occasionally, or at least once, to be whipped by the man they love. This has to do, it seems, with deep psychological feelings, feelings probably connected with the woman's desire to submit and fulfill her biological destiny, this perhaps being a manifestation, within the human species, of the dominance/submission ratios endemic in na- ture. This involves, of course, an intense sentient interaction with the lover. Intense emotions, sensations and feelings are involved. In this situation the woman, who desires to surrender and yield, understands that she is now at the mercy of the lover, and is helpless under his will. It gives her an opportunity, too, of course, to show the lover that she, in her love, and in the intensity of her feelings, offers herself up to him. Kajira of Gor
"Whip me!" I begged. "I love you! Teach me that you own me!" He took a step, further back. "I beg the lash, Master," I said. My heart was filled with joy and love. His face was expressionless. He did not speak. "Let me kneel before you," I said, "and beg to be beaten with a slave whip." He did not speak. "Whip me!" I begged. "I love you! I love you!" "Slave," he sneered. "Yes, Master," I said. "Natural slave," he said, angrily. "Yes, Master," I said. "I did not know you were a natural slave," be said. "You knew it before you bought me," I said. "You knew it from last night." "Yes," he said. "But still you bought me!" I said. "Yes," he said. "I love you!" I said. "You are a natural slave," he said. "Your love is Worthless." "It is, at any rate, real," I assured him. Kajira of Gor, page
A carry over topic
galah{RA}~~~ should a girl strive to be found pleasing because of her slavehood, or cause of the fear for her life? might be a good carry over subject?