Prices of things
Rollo the Ax~~~ Well.... should we get this show on the road ???? LOL.. I want to welcome everybody here tonight, and thank all for taking the time to come and take part.... same rules as always.... So .... does anyone have a topic they want to discuss ??????
Rollo the Ax~~~ Okay.... the first topic off the mark tonight is money on Gor.... it's value and how we need to try and keep things here more * realistic *....LOL.
Kyoto~~~ *Nodding* Aye, I have seen patrons pay with a gold... that's enough for the average man on Gor to live for months... isn't the conversion something like 3-5 thousand coppers to the gold depending on the minting?
cheela{HoWS}~~~ looking up to Master Kyoto and grinning impishly as che was a bargin at twice the price..
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ "Although it is not my policy to include Cabot's marginal notes, jottings, etc., which are often informal, and apparently written at different times, in the text of his accounts, I think it would not be amiss to hypothesize certain approximate equivalencies here. To be sure, much seems to depend on the city and the particular weights involved. For example, a 'double tarn' is twice the weight of a 'tarn.' It seems there are usually eight tarsk bits in a copper tarsk, and that these are the result of cutting a circular coin in half, and then the halves in half, and then each of these halves in half. An analogy would be the practice of cutting the round, flat Gorean loaves of sa-tarna bread into eight pieces. There are apparently something like one hundred copper tarsks in a silver tarsk in many cities. Similarly, something like ten silver tarsks would apparently be equivalent, depending on weights, etc., to one gold piece, say, a single 'tarn.' Accordingly, on this approach, the equivalents, very approximately, and probably only for certain cities, would be eight tarsk bits to a copper tarsk; one hundred copper tarsks to a silver tarsk; and ten silver tarsks to a gold piece, a single tarn. On this approach there would be, literally, 8,000 tarsk bits in a single gold piece. J.N.
Magicians of Gor, page 469
Ceredigawn Durst~~~ *Thinking* I think that We do for the most part, However I do remember a few times it getting out of hand.
Kyoto~~~ *Chuckling as I tousle her hair*
che, I would have paid 10 times what I paid for you...
Kyoto~~~ Aye, that's it, thank you jas...
cheela{HoWS}~~~ ~biting back a giggle as You muss her hair~
Yes Master, at such a price, why not go for a hundred times the original price?
~ listening to the weight scales and monetary amounts with interest
Kyoto~~~ Ok, sounds like a plan, che...
speaking of prices of slaves, what was the average price of a girl...?
jasma {GS~FG}~~~ but also.. in Explorers of Gor.. it says that ten tarsk bits make a copper tarsk..
One of the guardsmen opened her mouth, not gently, and retrieved the coin, a rather large one, a tarsk bit. Ten such coins make a copper tarsk. A hundred copper tarsks make a silver tarsk.
Explorers of Gor, page 54
arianna{HK}~~~ would that not depend on her status?
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL... What everybody needs to try and remember is that like all things, * value is realitive.....* what is worth the world to some may not be worth the powder and shot to blow it to hell for another....
Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Thinking that some girls were sold for almost nothing in the books I have read...then the really good red silks went for 1 or 2 gold sometimes, right?
Kyoto~~~ Well, it could be attributed to fluctuations in the economy... or further instances of J Norman's occasional inconsistencies...
Gornt~~~ price is negotiable isn't it?
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening to Master Kyoto~
with respect, Master.. that would depend upon the price of the market at the time.. as well as the quality of the slave.. this one believes.. Judy Thornton went for a few coppers.. but there were also instances were girls sold for 100 gold pieces..
-----
"I don't thinkshe's worth very much," I said.
"Oh, Master," cried Targo, swirling his robes in disbelief that I could have uttered such a thought. "I paid a hundred silver tarn disks for her myself!"
Behind Targo the grizzled man quickly held up his fingers, opening and closing them five times.
"I doubt," I said to Targo, "that she is worth more than fifty."
Targo seemed stunned. He looked at me with a new respect. Perhaps I had once been in the trade? Actually, fifty silver tarn disks was an extremely high price, and indicated the girl was probably of high caste as well as extremely beautiful. An ordinary girl, of low caste, comely but untrained, might, depending on the market, sell for as little as five or as many as thirty tarn disks.
Outlaw of Gor, page 193
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Kyoto ??? LOL... in the books girls went for as cheap as a few tarsk bits, and as much as a 1000 gold tarns ...So just what IS the value of a slave ????? LOL
Kyoto~~~ *Chuckling* I paid nothing for che... but I seem to remember that there was an auction in the Curulean where three properly prepared girls went for over 3000 tarns, correct?
cheela{HoWS}~~~ with respect Master, an untrained girl, new to her brand and collar may be sold in lots for a few tarsks, as the slavers ships would often flood the market with slave meat from earth or the taken girls from the raid on a city or village.. training a girl takes time and lessons, and can be done in larger pens again in lots, but an exceptional girl is like a thoroughbred and might go for more than the price of a war tarn.. much like (and forgive me Ladies for the portrayal) the dogs or pets of earth. some pups are given for free,,while others go for prices that would stagger the mind
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ and for Virginia, Phyllis, and Elizabeth..
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"It is bid," said the man, "by Samos, First Slaver of Port Kar, for the wenches now on the block three thousand pieces of gold."
Assassin of Gor, page 309
Ceredigawn Durst~~~ So who were the richest Men on Gor? I mean are there certain castes that shouldn't have a lot of money?
arianna{HK}~~~ ari feels it would also depend on the Master who owns the slave and how He is feeling that day....he can, if He don't really wanna sell the slave, ask an exorberant amount for her. after all she is His to sell for as much as He likes really
cheela{HoWS}~~~ ~laughing softly as she looks to Master Kyoto and nestles close to His side~ or priceless?
it is all in a Master or Mistress's view
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. I don't mean to look like I am trying to * stir up * everybody.... but the point I am trying to make is that worth or value is not always the same to everybody.... We, as 21st century, generally Western society persons, don't realize that life can be cheap....on Gor as well as here on earth..... to a rich man, money is nothing.... to a poor man, one coin may mean the difference between life and death....
Kyoto~~~ That is the exact quote I was looking for jas...
And a good point cheela... it depends on what the market is currently considering desirable.
Gornt~~~ well for VT price is really not a concern, but for reality's sake, One should not go overboard and give the girl a swelled head
arianna{HK}~~~ *nods in agreement with che* the more one pays the more they are likely to look after it, if it is given for free they are less likely to look after it (well that is the way with pets on earth)
Kyoto~~~ Not always ari... I have had a dog that I paid nothing for and valued 1000 times more than the dog I bought... and the same can be said for slaves.
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~looking up to Master Durst~..
this one.. with no disrespect intended.. would believe that perhaps those of the Peasant's Caste to not be as rich as some of the other Castes..
~nodding~.. a girl just remembered where to look, Master Kyoto..
arianna{HK}~~~ Money on cyberland is 'free' so it's kind of made into a bit of joke when a girl is sold for say 5000 pieces of gold. who will have 5000 peices of gold???
cheela{HoWS}~~~ Ahh air, che was given a puppy, it cost her nothing at all save in food and medicines, but that puppy was the most loved and worth more than her car when it was hurt and needed the surgeons attention, che sold her transprtation to save the dog..
does this mean the pup had no worth?
arianna{HK}~~~ well that dog was very lucky to find You Master Kyoto, from what ari has seen those who are given pets, or cars, do not look after them as much as those who have worked hard to earn the money to buy them.
Phen~~~ *Laughs* Ceredigawn I can tell You that a Physician doesn't earn very much at all for His profession...
arianna{HK}~~~ no it doesn't che, was merely making an example of what ari has seen - ari's had most of her pets given to her and loved them as though they cost millions of dollars, it all depends on the owner *s*
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening~.. and also.. Players didn't really make that much money, unless in tournament and they had won.. if this one remembers correctly..
Kyoto~~~ It also depends on the person and their relative maturity level, I know for a fact that when I was 20, I didn't have as much respect for what I was gifted with...
Kayla~~~ Does it matter anyway since it is not real money????... I can always bid more and be assured that I can meet the debt ~shrugs~
dove{Dak}~~~ it would appear to this slave as though the slaves have no worth within ourselves.
You are Masters You own the girls the slaves are here for the pleasure of the Masters Mistresses and tavern
Rollo the Ax~~~ That is the point, Gornt..... for ever one of us that tries to keep things close to * realistic * (according to the books ...LOL..) we will all see many that don't.... LOL..paying for a drink of paga with an egg sized ruby, or throwing gold tarns coins around like confettii....LOL..
Kyoto~~~ It is ultimately a statement of honour... perhaps when the next auction is held, the participants should "hand" the auctioneer thr amount they are willing to spend and then they can be assured of not going wild...
arianna{HK}~~~ what ari don't understand is how can a girl go for a copper tarsk when a bowl of blackwine is the same value? how does that work, surely a slave is worth more to the Master/Mistress than blackwine, blackwine cannot fetch things for the Master, it cannot clean things etc.
Ceredigawn Durst~~~ Well I'll say it like this...I thought of Myself as being rather wealthy as a builder...I was paid quite well for doing Bolt's piers, and Kasba's Villa...I am trying to figure out where I stand...
cheela{HoWS}~~~ Since the question was one of the monetary units of Gor and it's uses online, would it not simply be easier to post a units list on costs and go from there?
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ but in the reality of it, ari.. that doesn't matter.. a slave is an animal.. property.. and so as such unless One finds her of value.. she can be tossed out like the trash.. and if a Master don't have one that can do it.. there are others.. there are many Masters that couldn't afford to own a slave.. because it costs to take care of them.. if One was poor.. then He wouldn't be able to afford the price of perhaps even a girl that only sold for a few coppers..
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...Aye, Kayla... but down deep You will know that You have been made to compromise Your own good sense, to keep bidding well over the possible value of the item... so is the point to win what you were bidding on, or to keep the other person from winning ?????
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL.. Kyoto.... to * get around * that all I need do is show up with a wheel barrow full of gold coins, and I win !!!!! LOL...LOL.. a good idea, but it can still get out of hand.....
Gornt~~~ shouldn't a buyer try to appear nonchalant when bidding to keep from being run up then?
arianna{HK}~~~ *grins* or You could load up your Tarn baskets full of gold coins, maybe You have 3 tarns all with baskets full of gold. You are right Master Rollo, it gets out of hand, when is enough, enough?
Kayla~~~ To WIN Rollo the ultimate goal of every Gorean *S*... I would not attempt to buy unless I wanted it and with no limits who is to say that I am unreasonable or the One bidding against Me *S*
cheela{HoWS}~~~ and if a Master spent it all on BUYING the girl, what would he use to clothe his high priced slut?
~grinning and refilling Master Kyoto's wine bowl when He isn't looking~
Kyoto~~~ I suppose so, it goes back to personal honor, then.
arianna{HK}~~~ maybe if more than one person wants to buy a slave a silent auction is needed...that way prices don't get out of hand.
Dak~~~ it is the same with any auction, every one should set a limit in there own mind on what something is worth to them !
Gornt~~~ doesn't everything Kyoto?
Kyoto~~~ *Nodding* Aye Gornt, it should.
Gornt~~~ nothing che, nude slaves are the best slaves
cheela{HoWS}~~~ ~eyes twinkling~
Ahh but Master Gornt, isn't that much like buying a Mercedes and not being able to afford the tires?
Kyoto~~~ *Laughing* I agree totally Gornt... why hide what you own?
Gornt~~~ nope, driving the girl without clothes is a lot easier.
Kayla~~~ I have only been to one slave auction and there was no restraints and People getting mad ~shaking My head~ Coins and animals being tossed around...LOL... I saw no honor just the raw need to WIN by the participants... I don't even think the girl mattered after awhile... it would have been the same if it was a dried up hag...
Rollo the Ax~~~ Now, to go back a bit.... dove, I truly believe that every person NEEDS to have a clear view of their own self worth.... Free or slave, each person has worth... and that worth is not always shown in money.... but every slave still needs to realize that even if owned, they have a value.... the other part of the question may well be, does the Free that ownes her truly know her value....???
Gornt~~~ for that Rollo it is in the perception, is a slave that cost 3000 gold more valuable than one costing a 1000, if the one costing a 1000 lights up One's life
Ceredigawn Durst~~~ That is exactly what Rollo means Gornt, Right Captain?
Dak~~~ I would say it is up to the slave to provide the means for Master to judge that in the pleasure she gives Him!
Gornt~~~ the trick is to bid one the one so Others do not know One's true feelings
dove{Dak}~~~ yes Master Rollo Ax this one agrees with You and it should give us slaves the desire to be very pleasing and to work harder so our Masters are pleased with us
arianna{HK}~~~ this is a very interesting topic btw *smiles*
Errand Knight~~~ *interested at the discussion of the slaves auction as he has not attended such on gor ..seem very different from vt bdsm auctions which are for amusement and merriment and so not usually involve a collar*
arianna{HK}~~~ aiii Master Gornt, it can be, for both Master and slave.
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ... A slave girl, one who truly serves men, has often much freedom. Since they have everything, and anything, they want from her, and she is complete slave, and they total master, there is no struggle between them; she, accordingly, in a strange way, is prized and treasured; how many women of Earth, I wonder, are prized and treasured by their men; one can prize and treasure, of course, only something which one owns; a free person can be respected, and even loved, but cannont stand to another in that unique relationship which is that of prize and treasure; to stand in that relationship a woman must be owned; ....
Slave Girl of Gor, page 361
Kayla~~~ EK it was very interesting but in a weird strange way... it was like to Me like bloodlust... the scent driving the People on to do incredibley stupid things... Oh did I mention I was bidding and being stupid as well??? ...LOL
Errand Knight~~~ Kayla: I understand the feel of what Youre trying to convey My Friend ....and can understand why that might be so, though I would not have expected it ..still would luv to observe Myself one day
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL... Gornt, I, Myself, have payed a few silver coins for a slave that I would not sell for a boat load of gold.... so yes, value is not a factor when it is personal...
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~voice lifting~
also.. not only were sales ever of the monetary kind.. Inmak of the Red Hunters bought two earth girls for pelts of animals in Beasts of Gor..
Gornt~~~ ~chuckling~ but Earth girls are easy
I just saw the movie
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~laughing softly from Master Gornt's words~
Earth girls are said to be natural slaves of Men, Master.. ~grinning and lowering eyes~
damiana{HoWS}~~~ dami believes that's because Earth girls are worth less then a slave, jasma...giving pelts and items rather than coinage was not uncommon on Gor
damiana{HoWS}~~~ dami should say, more than Gorean slaves
Gornt~~~ hmmmmmmmm, I better find a different hunting preserve the jas
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ no it wasn't damiana.. yet.. this one don't believe that it was only done with those that were barbarians.. it could be done to any piece of slave meat..
Gornt~~~ barter is the oldest form of commerce
Kayla~~~ remember that it was the three Earth barbarians that brought all the gold *S* So that is not true... it is training.... and emotional intanglement
Gornt~~~ Kayla, that is the rub, to keep emotions under wraps when bidding
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~looking to Master Gornt.. and chuckling softly~..
aye, Mistress Kayla..
cheela{HoWS}~~~ ~nodding so hard at Mistress Kayla's observation that curls flip into her eyes and are summerialy blow away again~
true Mistress, and it was a found German Shephard, one left tied to a tree to starve to death, that took top honors at the Westminster dog show, so it is not just the look or location, but the training and application of such training..
Dak~~~ in other words, pedigree and beauty, don't alway make the best slave !
Dak~~~ it would be more their training and desire to serve
Kayla~~~ So there is no answer???? Everyone should spend whatever if they feel passionately?
Asellus~~~ *Jumping back in the furs slightly as Kayla's voice resounds against the tavern's walls. She chuckles* The SarDar Mountains are the limit apparently, Kayla.
arianna{HK}~~~ how can one limit cyber money Mistres Kayla? to ari it seems that always everyone is gonna spend whatever they like if they want somethign badly enough *smiles*
Kayla~~~ 1. Tarsk bit = $3.50
2. Copper Tarsk = $28.00
3. Silver Tarsk = $2,800.00
4. Gold Tarn = $28,000.00
5. Double Weight Tarn = $56,000.00
arianna{HK}~~~ BTW that was not a question, ari was agreeing with Mistress Kayla *L*
jasma{GS~FG}~~~ ~listening carefully~
this one still feels that each sale should be looked at upon an individual basis and according to the Buyers there as well as the girls sold.. not often did this one ever see where a girl new to the collar, went for an extreme amount, unless they had been a FW of high caste..
but this one could be wrong also..
Gornt~~~ isn't passion the point? if there is no passion why buy the wench in the first place
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Kayla...the answer to this question may well be just that..... each person must look within themselves to answer just what anything is truly worth.....
arianna{HK}~~~ *smiles at Master Gornt*
that is how ari sees it, if she dont want somethign in RT she won't buy it, but by God if a girl wants something badly enough she will do whatever she can so she can be assured of getting it
Gornt~~~ ahhhhhh the ways of woman, ari ~smiling~
Kayla~~~ Gornt.... to cook clean help in the shops... Lady's girls... just to name a few *S*
Rollo the Ax~~~ Kayla, I feel that I should voice My own opinion about that * value system *.... the amount of value was a very arbitrary thing....I mean, in RT a gold coin of 1 oz. is only worth around $300 .... that system used the price of a drink at a bar as its basis...
Gornt~~~ ahhhhhh yes M'lady One forgets the mundane
Asellus~~~ I suppose Us Free Women wouldn't understand, Kayla. *chuckling* That is why I've been so quiet. First of all, for the auction, unless some random element has been thrown in, it is most likely that the bidders have spoken with the girl and the girl has made a natural inclination towards One anyway, and so He vows to stop at nothing to have her. Secondly, who would really want to *hurt* someone's feelings in r/t for making and winning at a cheap bid of a mere few pieces of copper.
Gornt~~~ not if One wanted devoted service Asellus
Rollo the Ax~~~ LOL...LOL.. Well... folks, have we beat this topic to death ???? LOL.. Is there anyone that wants more discussion on it ????
Asellus~~~ So....You think it takes a large sum to ensure the girl serves devotedly like she should? Am I following You correctly, Gornt? *not sure*
Gornt~~~ Nay
Kayla~~~ Asellus... I would agree but in this case (I had some inside info) the One the girl favored was not there... 2 Others thought that it was They that the girl favored... and then throw in a nosey FreeWoman and a Few Others that were truely thought was an open auction and You have utter bedlam *S*
cheela{HoWS}~~~ ~if she had two copper tarsks she would add them to the pot, but as she is only a slave and not even worth that much...~
it can be a matter of honor or a matter of feelings and one does not always pattern the other. to put it bluntly, many will just drive up the cost to make their bought girl feel good, but cheela has never been sold for more than three copper tarsks.. and honestly it feels more real to her because of it..
arianna{HK}~~~ *giggles* sounds like You had fun though Mistress Kayla
Asellus~~~ Ohhhh! *eyes widening, laughing* So the girl had Them all strung on a leash? *chuckling*
dove{Dak}~~~ as usual Master Rollo You have conducted a very informative forum thank You rt calls this one she must leave farewell to all
Asellus~~~ ~ahem!~ *stifling the laughter* Better now....
Yes, cheela, understandable, of course. *nodding* Keeping it real would be better. *S*
Kayla~~~ LOL.. I had a blast though I think that Others did not find it so amusing *S*...
Gornt~~~ ~chuckling~ isn't that always the way Kayla?
Dak~~~ I thought the forum, most interesting, and amusing !
cheela{HoWS}~grinning to Master Rollo~
~then nodding to the Mistress with a grin~
But keeping it real in vt isn't always possible, there will always be fragile egos and over inflated egos..
arianna{HK}~~~ *grins* well Mistress Kayla, as long as You nejoyed Yourself *shrugs* that's all that matters!
Rollo the Ax~~~ Well, I believe that this weeks forum is over .....LOL... Thanks once again for coming and taking part, everyone.....