Protocols on Death
Lemuel~~~ ~looking to the water-clock in the corner...~
Let's go ahead and get started with the forum...slaves need not beg entrance or exit during the forum, please keep greetings and off topic chat in whispers, etc., etc.
Any topics? Please send them to Me in a whisper.
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Alright, first topic...
What are the protocols on death (ie when a slave or Free is killed) and what are the issues with reinventing a Gorean character after O/one is killed?
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: I gather that in a death fight between Free, the kill has to be witnessed and sanctioned..how does that happen?
Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ The rules will vary from site to site, but for Gorean Shores any killing that takes place in the Tavern must be witnessed (a c&p from more than one person preferably) and voted on by the Council.
Lemuel~~~ This would apply to Free Patrons and Tavern slaves mostly. Personally owned slaves is another matter...
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: and if a person is killed and Council accepts the killing obviously that persona is finished with ..is a person then free to return as another ..or is One expected to leave the site?
Paedur~~~ I think if it is a "Death" match, even in V/T, then which ever role player loses, that character is dead, and shoul dnot come back to life.
But it doesn't mean the loser can not make a new chacter and continue to role play.
Now a slave who loses her head, well now that I think is another issue.
Lemuel~~~ ~nods at the comments~ The general feeling is that "Dead is Dead"...especially if the person in question *knew* the rules. If it is someone new to Gor exceptions *might* be made...
Paedur~~~ Like any role playing game, One must get to know their character intimately, and so You hate to lose One when they are killed or die.
But it gives You the chance to try something new.
The only issue I have with the "Death" match is if someone is being an ass over it.
But then whoever accepts that kind of fight well might need to be cleansed from the DNA pool. LOL
Lemuel~~~ ...and they can always create a new persona, hopefully learning from their mistakes.
Paedur~~~ Chuckles, now Lemuel, just because You don't know the law doesn't mean you will get away with breaking the law. LOL
Errand Knight~~~ so hypothetically...I make an improper approach to jasma .....you challange Me and kill me ..council agree ts a fair kill ..and EK is finished with in GS. Is EK alive alsewhere on gor? Is Fred the new Physican welcome in GS?
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~looking up from the pieces of rence paper as she hears Master Knight's question.. ~
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles at Paedur's comment~ Aye, the DNA pool could use a bit of chlorine every now and then...~G~
Paedur~~~ Smiles at Errand Knight's example, but knows both He and Lemuel would not be so inclined.
But does undertands that THAT situation can arise.
But also wonders if One is in a Gorean Home, they should have some sense, some clue, some respect.
Paedur~~~ Hydrochloric Acid Lemuel. *wink* LOL
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ That would be up to other sites...and to the individuals. We would inform allied sites of a death and they would deal with it as they choose. Some in Goean Shores would ignore a dead person, even if they came in under another name, others might welcome them. ~shrugs~ The *official* policy is that "Dead is Dead" and any that entered willingly into a death match should honour the outcome.
Errand Knight~~~ Paedur: just an example ...I ceased being a hng some time ago ..so jasma's pretty bum is safe from My hands out of respect to Lemuel
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: is to be clear ..EK is dead on gor and Fred the Physician is not an option ..so once killed, no more gor?
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~wiggling sweet bottom teasingly against heels~
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ No more Gorean Shores...we have no control over other sites.
Errand Knight~~~ so lets say I was challenged by a Red Caste..whilst We are all expected to be able to defend our home a Physician would be no match for a woarrior in general ..I cant very well refuse a challenge even to the death even if the reasons are spurious ..means Im stuffed if that were to occur..accepting of course that it is an unlikely event
Lemuel~~~ And for the kajirae...the same rules apply. They are considered *Dead* in Gorean Shores if their killing was voted to be justified. Again, we have no jusridiction over personally owned slaves or other sites.
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Actually, You *could* refuse a challenge, E.K. As a Physician no one would expect You to be a match for a Warrior and You have the option of refusing. Only another Warrior would be obliged to accept a challenge from a Warrior.
Errand Knight~~~ Lemuel: thanks for the info ..I think Im clearer on what the protocols are
Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ One of the benefits of *not* being a Warrior...and if You do accept You get to choose the weapons...so, bandages at 50 paces? ~winks~
Errand Knight~~~ *laffin*
still we are all expected to have some proficiency so as to defend our home if required ..guess thats part of the reasoning for sparring contests bewteen non Warriors
Kayla~~~ But of course you would be labeled a coward any way *ss*
Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ Yes, My own opinion is that every Man should be able to defend Himself, His family and His property...though that isn't really found in the books...~S~
Kayla~~~ ~smiles~ Expectations for HNG's are different than for regular folks My Bother...LOL
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckles~ Aye, but a coward that would live to learn from their mistakes. ~G~ Hard to learn when you're dead.
Errand Knight~~~ besides if I was badly injured Kayla would have to tend to Me
*swoons as My eyes roll up to the three moons*
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~chuckling softly as she listens~
Children on Gor
Lemuel~~~ ~looks about~ Anything to add to this topic? Or should we move on to Paedur's question about children?
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ On to the next topic...(c&p'ing from earlier)
What about children in Gor?
I have yet to read anything at all.
How is that dealt with?
Errand Knight~~~ I gather children are more often than not consider to be the responsibility of the community
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~hearing the other topic being brought up~
Kayla~~~ They are mentioned throught the books but always as a by product... like a mention of a game or prevention of pregnacy...
Phen~~~ Children on Gor well asked that question months ago I could have just literally stated a few facts with quotes to back them up now as it has been so long I will ask assistance and speak on what I vagualy remember...Children are spoken of I think in Nomads or Tribes though it describes the differances between these and cities if I recall...
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ Well, I seem to remeber that children are cherished by Goreans...though there isn't much mention of them in the books. The onther one that comes to mind is that in some cities women are not allowed full participation in their Caste until they have had three children.
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ children were mentioned in a few of the books.. but even at a young age they didn't seem really *young*.. but mature.. mature enough to the fact that a girl believes, at one time, there was a slave that a 8 year old boy assessed.. ~looking to her Master.. hoping that's correct~
Paedur~~~ Listens.
Errand Knight~~~ certainly a FW wishing to be a Physician is required to have borne two children
Lemuel~~~ ~nods as jasma mentions another instance where children are mentioned~ Yes, I remember that one now too.
Phen~~~ If a child is Born to a Free they are Free if not then they a slave....However in Raiders what was her name she was slave and brought up as a free then enslaved all in the scheme of things to happen to Tarl Cabbot...
Errand Knight~~~ is a child borne of a slave ..such as a breeder girl ..a slave? or may its Free father train the chilkd for entry into His caste?
Phen~~~ Aye jasma not to mention another quote in the books of young boys taunting slave girls as they passed...
Kayla~~~
"Be careful of a tarn-goad," said the Older Tarl. "It is not for children." I took it from him, this time being careful to take it near the leather loop, which I fastened around my wrist
Tarnsman of Gor page: 50
The children of the Wagon peoples are taught the saddle of the kaiila before the can walk."
Nomads of Gor page: 17
they wish their children to be born not to an want equal but a superior; how could they respect a man who in stature and power was not more than themselves, the equal of a woman, a price; given the choice to bear the child of an equal, or a master, most woman would choose to bear the child of a master; woken long to bear the children of men superior to themselves;
Tribesmen of Gor page(s): 163-163
Caste membership of the children born of such a union is a function of the caste of the father."
Slave Girl of Gor page(s): 212-213
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~smiling happy she remembered that~
Scormus of Ar was a child of the slave, Sura and ~oh can't remember his name~.. but He.. (the father) was a Free Man and Scormus also was free.
Kayla~~~
In a family house, of course, girls are almost always modestly garbed. children of many houses might be startled if they could see the transformation which takes place in their pretty Didi or Lale, whom they know as their nurse, governess and playmate, when she is in their absence or after their bedtime, ordered to the chamber of one of the young masters, there to dance lasciviously before him, and then to be had, and as a slave.
Guardsman of Gor page(s): 105-109
Lemuel~~~ It's not perfectly clear from the books, but usually a child born to a slave is a slave...I imagine it's up to the owner though......in Tharna the slave is freed just before birthing the child, but sura (I think) in "Assassin" was never freed, yet her son Scormus is free...
Lemuel~~~ ~smiles at jasma~ Hup was Scormus' father.
Paedur~~~ Taking notes.
Need to do a bit more reading.
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~slapping forehead as her Master speaks the name that had slipped her mind~
thank You, Master..
Errand Knight~~~ so as some children clearly remain slaves and others are raised as free, it would seem a matter for the free to decide
Phen~~~ Also I do know they are breastfed and even longer on the plains...However we also have to remember this is a very forward culture where ppl live for hundreds of years woman do not have a limited time to produce shildren and there is medications such a slave wine to stop pregnancy...
Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ I would imagine that there are certain laws, or perhaps guidelines, that might vary from city to city.
Kayla~~~ It does seem to be rather at whim than reason
Lemuel~~~ For the most part, children are just background imagery in the Gor books. There's very little specific information about them...
Kyoto~~~ It's like that in many stories, I think it's understood that they exist, else there would be no more Goreans.
Besides, when most people read books like these, it's to escape from the real time world, which for many includes children.
Garawin~~~ *nodding as He listens to the talk* I agree - I believe that the children's status was determined by their Master - usually they became slaves but often a good kajira could be rewarded by letting her offspring be free
Phen~~~ Exactly Captain they are a very small part of the story that JN is telling...
Lemuel~~~ ~nods~ John Norman will occasionally mention children playing and such to set the scene, but they very rarely (if ever) take center stage. It's left to our imagination to fill in the gaps. ~S~
Lemuel~~~
...in most Gorean cities, women, of one sort or another, care for and instruct the children in the crucial first years. —Marauders of Gor, page 30—
Lemuel~~~
The children of nomads, both male and female, until they are five or six years of age, wear no clothing. During the day they do not venture from the shade of the tents. At night, as the sun goes down, they emerge happily from the tents and romp and play. They are taught written Taharic by their mothers, who draw the characters in the sand, during the day, in the shade of the tents. Most of the nomads in this area were Tashid, which is a tribe vassal to the Aretai. It might be of interest to note that children of the nomads are suckled for some eighteen months, which is nearly twice the normal length of time for Earth infants, and half again the normal time for Gorean infants. These children, if it is significant, are almost uniformly secure in their families, sturdy, outspoken and self-reliant. Among the nomads, interestingly, an adult will always listen to a child. He is of the tribe. Another habit of nomads, or of nomad mothers, is to frequently bathe small children, even if it is only with a cloth and a cup of water. There is a very low infant mortality rate among nomads, in spite of their limited diet and harsh environment. Adults, on the other hand, may go months without washing. After a time one grows used to the layers of dirt and sweat which accumulate, and the smell, offensive at first, is no longer noticed.—Tribesmen of Gor, pages 170-171—
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ That's the longest quote about children I've been able to find...as everyone can see it mentions Phen's point about breast feeding...
Garawin~~~ *G* here's a toast to breastfeeding!!!!! *L*
Lemuel~~~ ~grins~ Aye, the milk comes in such wonderful containers...~EG~
Garawin~~~ *L* that they do Captain...that they do *chuckling*
Lemuel~~~
In some respects the Goreans are, perhaps, cruel. Yet they have never seen fit, through lies, to inflict suffering on children. They seem generally to me to be fond of children. Perhaps that is why they seldom hurt them. Even slave children, incidentally, are seldom abused or treated poorly, and are given much freedom, until they reach their young adulthood. It is then, of course, that they are taught that they are slaves. Men come, and the young male is tied and taken to the market. If the young slave is a female she may or may not be sent to a market. Many young slave maidens are raised almost as daughters in a home. It is often a startling and frightening day for such a girl when, one morning, she finds herself suddenly, unexpectedly, put in a collar and whipped, and made to begin to pay the price of her now-evident, now deliciously expressed slave beauty.Beasts of Gor, page 155
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~listening to her Master.. head nodding~
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling again~ And I think that's enough quotes...at least from Me. ~S~
Any other comments on Gorean children?
Phen~~~ Indoctrinated????Garawin did you know that some of those girls go mad?
kiki{GS}t~~~ um, if a slave girl is pregnant, and gives birth, dose she take care of the child here or dose she have to do that at another time, whatever time is proper??
Lemuel~~~ ~shaking head~ I think You may be confusing a quote from "Assassin", Phen...it never says that girls that knew they were slaves (no matter how they were treated) go mad...it only said that about girls that were raised without knowledge that they were actually slaves and that Men existed.
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling quietly~
Actually kiki, slaves rarely get to raise their own children. Usually when a slave is bred she is hooded so that no emotional attachment will form between her and the *stud*. And when it comes time to bear the child she is often hooded then and the child taken away to be raised by others.
kiki{GS}t~~~ ah, this one did not know that. Thank You Master Lemuel for telling her *smile and a nod*
Phen~~~ What about whats her name from Raiders if thats not a desturbed pice of meat I dont know what is*Smiling to the Captain* I know I have been away for ages but...
Lemuel~~~ ~chuckling~ You mean Telima, Phen? A little eccentric and vindictive yes, but not truly mad I'd say.
Lemuel~~~
On the other hand, considering the large number of slaves on Gor, only a small fraction are carefully bred; a larger fraction is bred, but more haphazardly, as when a given male of one private house is mated, for a price, with a given female of another house. Often in these matters, conducted under supervision, both slaves are hooded, in order that they not know who it is with whom they are forced to mate, lest they might, in their moment of union, in their common degradation, care for one another, or fall in love.—Assassin of Gor, page 110—
Phen~~~ Thats her name!!!*LOL* Depends on what you define mad as Captain*wink* But hey Gor is a Mans world...Thankyou for Your assitance...
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ ~thinking on that last quote.. ~
one can't imagine being hooded to be mated.. and yet.. she knows that's how it's done.. ~an odd feeling~
Garawin~~~ *shifting His weight as He listens further*
Garawin~~~ *L* sometimes you need a double hood!!! Just in case the first one rips!!
Lemuel~~~ ~S~ True, it would depend on the definition one uses...
And with that I'll call this forum to a close. I'd like to thank everyone that came and participatied for making it an interesting night. ~S~
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ thank You Master for allowing Your girl to be here and learn.
Garawin~~~ *smiling as He nods* Well I for one enjoyed this evening
Phen~~~ *S* Thankyou Captain for a pleasant evening...
Errand Knight~~~ thank You again Captain
jasma{LB}GSFG~~~ lot of quotes this one had forgot