Topics : What courtesies do new and regular visiting BDSM patrons and slave have, is there an extent to any of those allowances if any? Is there a time frame in which to expect them to embrace the structure of the Shores?
Ramses 19:53:44 pm CDT
ok, our first topic:
what courtesies do new and regular visiting BDSM patrons and slave have, is there an extent to any of those allowances if any? Is there a time frame in which to expect them to embrace the structure of the Shores?
Ramses 19:55:52 pm CDT
the overlap between BDSM and Gor has been a source of both friendship and controversy in all the years I have been here
Jarl Thorrn 19:56:47 pm CDT
which allowances, Ramses?
Loki 19:58:59 pm CDT
Aye, Ive observed the same, I wonder if its because of the commonality of poolside...
Ramses 19:59:12 pm CDT
I'm not sure what allowances should be made, LT
but I CAN say that there have been times denizens of the Dungeon have gotten upset at Goreans coming in and vice versa
{Ulrich's}shadow 19:59:29 pm CDT
not sure what an overlap really is, Gor and BDSM are worlds apart. If one wishes to play in BDSM girl would think they would find a site to do so, same with Gor.
Jarl Thorrn 20:01:29 pm CDT
as a master in both worlds since already some years i know about such differences happend, Ramses
I never asked for allowances in any of the places I always tried to adjust to the habits where i´m
showing My respect to the different places and peoples
And i know that this was expected by them
Did anything change in that basic behaviour?
Ramses 20:01:32 pm CDT
shadow, I agree that the differences are really more deep seated that whatever there might be in common
Loki 20:01:42 pm CDT
Aye, in other sites I haven't seen so much of a complication, that's why I threw the poolside in the mix
Ramses 20:02:27 pm CDT
ultimately, LT, I think that's what has to happen
each realm has it own rules and expected modes of behaviour
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:04:10 pm CDT
if girl was to go in the DM she would follow the rules of the BDSM world (which is not her thing so.. ) so unsure what allowances should be given here? ~soft shrug to her shoulder~
Jarl Thorrn 20:05:42 pm CDT
i remember once there has been a big discussion in the DM room about tolerating Gorean speech in DM
that discussion caused a lot of trouble and ended with many of the GS people not coming to DM anymore, something which goes on till today though the "inhabitants" of DM are nearly all new people now
i would like more GS people coming back to DM when there is not much going on in GS
Wwe are from related worlds and should accept each other and tolerate each other - respecting differences
Ramses 20:06:14 pm CDT
I think both groups are perhaps more "strong-willed" Loki? so more chance for conflict?
Ramses 20:06:26 pm CDT
nodding, I agree shadow
on both counts
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:07:23 pm CDT
maybe related as in they is a dominate and a submissive, but Jarl truly it stops right about there.
Loki 20:07:38 pm CDT
I'm not so sure about that Captain, In other Gorean sites I've visited it was rare that you seen any type of mixing of the two very different groups
aurora{Ulrich} 20:08:29 pm CDT
but its more than differences
its the life itself
and it is different worlds completely
Jarl Thorrn 20:08:49 pm CDT
shadow
i judged the relation from the view of a "normal" vanilla chat place
*S*
Loki 20:10:11 pm CDT
I agree aurora, so why the mixing of culture, goreans in the DM, and the DM here? why brings each to the others place, and keeping with there own traditions?
aurora{Ulrich} 20:15:43 pm CDT
and what shadow just said is a major difference
in bdsm a contract is drawn up between a Dom/sub
a Gorean slave has NO say
Jarl Thorrn 20:15:49 pm CDT
i agree, aurora
it was done by Goreans to take their language and habits to DM
of cause there are important principle differences in the two worlds but they are still closer to each other than to most other chat worlds and so I think Wwe are a kind of natural allies
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:17:05 pm CDT
oh Jarl, trust a girl the DM have brought there ways here in the past too
Jarl Thorrn 20:21:09 pm CDT
shadow
i´m sure they did
the have no other choice till they learned about Gor cause Gor is a set of rules, language and defined lifestyle according to the books
Nobody can know about that without a time of learning
Loki 20:23:01 pm CDT
aurora..you said unacceptable for gor to be spoken in the DM, but didn't say anything about bdsm spoken here, which sorta equates with the topic in hand, so I was asking if you felt if bdsm talk was acceptable here...
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:23:41 pm CDT
the basics are easily learned, GS has an extensive website thanks to Mistress Laroona's hard work. If girl was wanting to hang in the DM or a BDSM site she would take the initiative to learn of the world.
Ramses 20:24:12 pm CDT
I'd expect those visiting to learn our rules immediately Loki
aurora{Ulrich} 20:24:21 pm CDT
nay Master Loki,
it goes against the structure set up in GS
Loki 20:25:59 pm CDT
I agree Captain, so why is there so much conflict? what's the major malfunction to put it in lemans terms...
I agree aurora~nods to the girl~
Jarl Thorrn 20:26:14 pm CDT
learn immediately?
that is a really short time to get accommodated
*chuckles*
Ramses 20:26:49 pm CDT
*L*
that's true LT, but really all one needs to do is observe quietly
Ramses 20:27:03 pm CDT
Loki, I really can't say why
Zaroud 20:27:05 pm CDT
As someone who is "new" here, I must say that these past few weeks have been a learning experience for Me, and has forced Me to go back to the books, and rediscover some things I have forgotten, so I think one should expect anyone visiting GS to learn the ways of the place, and abide by them. But one must also, to some extent forgive the mistakes they are undoubtedly to make
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:28:01 pm CDT
there's observation collars though girls never seen a Free in one ~laughs winking~
BUT yes, they should. First time girl stepped in GS she called a Captain Sir, she ran fast read and returned. The basics are not that hard, girl thinks..
Ramses 20:28:22 pm CDT
I think anyone here genuinely looking to learn would be accepted Zaroud
I know I was
but I also took the time to observe and learn, rather than coming in with My own notions
Zaroud 20:28:44 pm CDT
As for BDSM and Gor, in the former pain is desire, one desires pain. In Gor, there is no hundering for pain. That is the fundamental difference, from which all else follows.
Zaroud 20:29:35 pm CDT
of course, Ramses, and such ones who come in with their own notions, do not last, for they are either laughed out of GS or ignored, I believe
Ramses 20:30:33 pm CDT
nodding ..exactly Zaroud
but therein comes some of the conflict
Ulrich's}shadow 20:30:39 pm CDT
girl was reading yesterday and came across a passage that something about Gorean knowledge being something that is a continual learning ~thumps her head~ it was from the books but girl so mindless, oh well
Jarl Thorrn 20:30:48 pm CDT
all done quietly
tough rule, Ramses
nods to Zaroud
it takes a few weeks to learn the basics
It is not only about what you can read in books and on websites
to act properly in Gor needs practise and more than can be written and read as i think
for Me it is important if someone wishes to learn from flaws and wants to correct them, then i don´t have problems with faults and flaws, that includes with My own *grin*
aurora{Ulrich} 20:32:56 pm CDT
of course, learning from flaws and wanting to correct them
that's the difference in
one going to another ones home and not respecting the protocols in place
Zaroud 20:33:15 pm CDT
yes, Thorrn, You are exactly right. I have learnt a lot from being in GS in the month or so that I have been here.
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:37:28 pm CDT
girl has always found GS to be helpful to new Free and slaves that showed the desire to learn.
Loki 20:38:07 pm CDT
when I came here long ago, I was from a BDSM background, on My first day a Captain pulled Me aside, and corrected Me, at that point I realized what exactly needed to happen, a choice had to be made, in mentality when here in the shores......shame to say this Captain is no longer here, He was a little harsh, but, was wise as well...
aurora{Ulrich} 20:38:19 pm CDT
so if a girl may ask
what bdsm is being seen in our home?
Zaroud 20:38:21 pm CDT
~nods to shadow in agreement~
I have found everyone most helpful
~smiles~
Zaroud 20:41:41 pm CDT
The problem with many sites is the impatience they have for newcomers. That is why GS differs, in my opinion.
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:43:07 pm CDT
a girl thinks that's how it should be to help keep us Gorean when we start bending the rules a little it becomes a little more and a little more and GS will lose its Gorean flavor that melts so well in a girls mouth..
Jarl Thorrn 20:47:32 pm CDT
so back to the question of the Slavemaster
should there be exten´sins to the allowances?
which time of adjusting is ok (just the sense, not the words)
can that really be defined?
aurora{Ulrich} 20:49:15 pm CDT
as far as aurora knows there is no time limit specified
on adjusting/learning the protocol
but slaves are encouraged to learn their lessons, advance in silks
and most do at a fairly good pace...zoya would know more about that now
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:50:42 pm CDT
there's a two week observation collar?
how much more time would one need that had the true desire?
its kinda like riding a bike, eye the basics and jump in, we all have learned from mistakes
Jarl Thorrn 20:51:42 pm CDT
but not all wear an observing collar, shadow
*strokes over My neck*
didn´t before pledging either *g*
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:54:25 pm CDT
~ eyeing the Jarls neck thinking it way too thick for steel anyway a laugh and a wink tossed to Him ~
there are pages for the Free on the website Master?
the basics are there, not much reading at all..
the rest You learn by experience, pick up a book and read it so You get he feel of the Gorean world..
Ulrich 20:55:40 pm CDT
There's not a time limit.
For slaves, the key is for that fire to spark, and for them to truly put forth the effort to learn. To do what is expected of them, and to not whine about what this one or that one is doing.
I think we are pretty good as a whole about helping Free that are new to this world get acclimated to our culture. But again to be truly accepted, one must make the effort.
If a new Free comes in, and someone politely tries to guide him to the rules, and the GS pages so they can see, but they stomp their foot and say "I'm Free, I do what I want", well they aren't going to last long.
Jarl Thorrn 20:56:47 pm CDT
whispers to shadow
that is what i did when i came in here as a guest years ago
read all the pages i found and listened to how things happened in here
... and asked slaves about what i didn´t know cause slaves usually know very well and like to help a Master *smiles*
Jarl Thorrn 20:58:15 pm CDT
nods and agrees so much with Ulrich
it depends most on the will to learn and to accept help and hints
{Ulrich's}shadow 20:59:08 pm CDT
* beams sitting up taller nodding to Jarl *
truly it is very true, a lot of slaves know far more than the Free because WE HAVE TO KNOW.. there is no end to training and many are walking kajira's of knowledge.. not shadow of course! but some are and others know a great deal.. what slave doesn't want to help a handsome Master out?
Ulrich 21:01:32 pm CDT
Nobody has anything else on their mind?
Jarl Thorrn 21:02:04 pm CDT
nods to shadow
a slave HAS to learn - a Master CAn learn
and i admit some do not so well with this like slaves do
~s~
~zoya~{GS~FG} 21:03:31 pm CDT
yes, our lives kinda depend on us learning all we can ~*~nods~*~
aurora{Ulrich} 21:03:48 pm CDT
nay aurora disagrees
Masters have to learn here
all Free have to learn
not can
Jarl Thorrn 21:04:47 pm CDT
aurora
you are right
but there is no one to control that they do , so the outcome is they CAN learn
Ulrich 21:07:08 pm CDT
aurora It's true. In order for a Free to survive, and be accepted here, they do have to learn.
However, Thorrn's point was, Free are not driven by the same requirements as a slave. Their desire to learn must come totally from within.
For a slave, she must desire to learn for it to set in, but she is driven more by wanting to please the Free.
Ulrich 21:05:12 pm CDT
~looking over the crowd~ Well the time is about up, and no one seems to have any further comments questions.
I will call the forum to a close.
My apologies for being late. Thank you all for coming and your participation.
Thanks to narin{GS} for scribing