Present:
Sandman
Ramses
Tanthio§
Dak
Kazar
ShadowMaster
Bretval
Lita
FireStorm (Gabby)
snowrose
hey you
anna
flicka
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:35:13 pm CST
ok, if you have a topic, please whisper it to Me now
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:36:39 pm CST
our first topic:
Today's Topic
When Men Speak...
Quotes For This Week
"On the behavioral level, I called her attention to a variety of attitudes and modalities of deference, some as simple as kneeling and bowing the head.
"Be submissive and feminine," I had told her.
"Be a slave," she said.
"Yes," I said, "be a slave."
Another thing I told her was to listen.
That was because she was free woman.
One need not tell a slave that. The slave is in a collar. If she is inattentive, she may be lashed. Too, it is extremely important for her to listen to the master, for he is her master.
"It is not only we who wish to be listened to," I told her, "but men, as well."
And I did not tell her this but, commonly, aside from considerations of prudence, the slave wants to listen. Most slaves soon become loving slaves and it is one of the happinesses of the loving slave to have the master speak to her. And who is more important to her than her master?
We want the master to be kind and loving, but also to keep us under a strict, perfect discipline, even to the whip. We wish there to be no mistake about the matter that we are slaves, fully, not any doubt about to whom we belong.
That is how we will to have it.
And so it is with care and attention and pleasure, that we listen to the master. Too, of course, as we are only slaves, and animals we are grateful to be spoken to. In addition, of course, it may be easier for the slave to listen for she is seldom
allowed to speak, unless she has been given permission to do so. Subjected to this condition we are muchly aware of the authenticity and rigors of our bondage. Few things more impress upon us that we are slaves. We are animals and goods. What better to remind us of this than that we may not speak without permission?" -
Witness of Gor page 524
"How incredibly, and yet rationally and justifiably, I felt at his mercy. He was my master. He owned me. He could do whatever he wanted with me. He could trade me or sell me, or even slay me upon a whim, should he wish. I was absolutely his, his girl."
- Slave Girl of Gor - Page 108
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:37:01 pm CST
but wait
there is more ....
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:37:34 pm CST
"On Gor, the female slave, desiring her master, yet sometimes fearing to speak to him, frightened that she may be struck, has recourse upon occasion to certain devices, the meaning of which is generally established and culturally well understood. I shall mention two such devices. There is, first, the bondage knot. Most Gorean slave girls have long hair. The bondage knot is a simple looped knot tied in the girl's hair and worn at the side of her right cheek or before her right shoulder. The girl approaches the master naked and kneels, the bondage knot soft, curled, fallen at the side of her right cheek or before her right shoulder. Another device, common in Port Kar, is for the girl to kneel before the master and put her head down and lift her arms, offering him fruit, usually a larma, or a yellow Gorean peach, ripe and fresh."
- Tribesmen of Gor - Page 27
"And what Master may not understand," she said, "is that we wish to be choiceless.
We want our will to mean nothing." Cabot was silent.
"Our bondage is a way of life," she said. "We want to belong, to be owned, to kneel, to submit, to serve, wholly and helplessly. Our servitude, our submission, our categorical surrender, our helplessness, is important to us. We love being what we are. Our brands, our collars, are precious to us. Our bondage is our freedom, our servitude our liberty."
- Kur of Gor - Pages 386 - 387
"The men of Gor," she said, "are strong. They are not weak and divided against themselves. They are not tortured. They are integrated and coherent, and proud. They see themselves in the order of nature. They see females as females, as slaves, and themselves as men, as masters. If we do not please them they punish us, or slay us. We quickly learn our place in the order of things. Only where there are true men can there be true women."
- Rogue of Gor - Page 100
Questions
1) Free Men and Free Women are supposed to be heard and heeded. Do you demand this of slaves, whether you own them or not and why or why not?
2) Slaves, how do you feel about a Man's words? Does it matter if he is not your Owner? How about a Free Woman's words?
3) When in rp and the room is busy, how do you decide who to pay most attention to?
If you have any quotes to share that pertain to this topic, please do!
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:38:07 pm CST
give everyone time to digest all that ...
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:39:31 pm CST
I am interested to hear the slaves' response to #3
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:42:12 pm CST
girl usually looks about, sees who is being, or has been served, and who has not...then, and she is not sure if she should say this, but she tends to offer service to a Free who does not own a slave...perhaps pay special attention
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:45:10 pm CST
snow, even if that slave is not present?
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:46:31 pm CST
and I fully expect that ANY slave win MY presence will heed Me as she would her Master
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:46:39 pm CST
Answering question 2. A Free Person is a Free Person, Their words are to be heeded, Their desires are to be fullfilled, Their needs are to be met, with cheerfulness, with alacrity and to the best of this slave's ability.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:46:48 pm CST
well yes Master...maybe if the Master's slave is not around much...it's a judgment call...~looks up through long feathery lashes~ she adores You all Master
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:48:50 pm CST
oh of course Master...she sort of goes by the chain of command...but when that is taken care of..she heeds every Free's wishes
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:48:56 pm CST
nodding to snow...
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:49:22 pm CST
flicka, spoken like a true slave ..
Lita, Physician 19:49:54 pm CST
It is my understanding that Free are to be served in order of precendence. First the slave's Owner, then the Senior Captain, then the other Captains, then Free Men Who are not Captains, then Free Women. Is that not correct?
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:50:23 pm CST
nods to Lita, that is correct
Lita, Physician 19:50:44 pm CST
Just as They are to be greeted in order of precedence.
Lita, Physician 19:51:22 pm CST
Sometimes,. though, it is hard for a girl to tell upon entering Who has been served and Who hasn't
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:51:25 pm CST
it is Mistress...she meant after that part had been attended to .. she worded it badly
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:52:09 pm CST
*laughs*
I can barely keep track Lita, when I am there in the room
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:52:10 pm CST
Answering question 3, If flicka's Jarl is there He naturally takes precedence over All. Failing that, like mistress snowrose, flicka looks to see who is being served, then flicka would offer service to the Captains first, followed by Any Master Who's personal slave is not in attendance, and finally ~little moue to the Free Women present~ to Free Women.
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:57:30 pm CST
thank You Master Ramses.
~low laugh~ You say You can hardly keep track even when You are in the room? Ah and that is one of the reasons among the far more obvious reasons, Master that You are not a slave. ~chuckling~ Our lives would not be worth a cent if we did not keep track, we are trained to be observant and part of our wishing to be pleasing is to make sure that we do keep track of what is happening.
A lazy slave is one who neglects a Master. And a slave might add, a whipped or even slain slave.
Ramses, Captain of GS 19:58:31 pm CST
*laughs*
I was wondering if you would come back with that response flicka
Dak 19:59:11 pm CST
just so everyone knows I invited heyYOu and anna both here tonight as MY guests
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:59:29 pm CST
Master Ramses how well You know flicka. ~laughing~
Lita, Physician 19:59:30 pm CST
Captain Ramses? Could You please explain about Gor to the Lady?
Lita, Physician 20:00:26 pm CST
Thank You, Master Dak. Then perhaps You cold explain Gor to the ladies?
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:01:14 pm CST
Lita, I am guessing that Dak has already done so
Dak 20:01:29 pm CST
I'm working on it, thought they might want to watch and listen, *smiles
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:01:50 pm CST
*grins*
with so few slaves here I believe that we are losing traction on our topic tonight
Lita, Physician 20:04:04 pm CST
I am interested in the slaves' responses to Question #2
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:04:44 pm CST
could Mistress repeat question 2 please
Lita, Physician 20:05:45 pm CST
2) Slaves, how do you feel about a Man's words? Does it matter if he is not your Owner?
How about a Free Woman's words?
ShadowM - I am a rock, unable to be knocked down. 20:08:02 pm CST
That, is an excellent question.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:09:35 pm CST
it matters muchly Mistress...This girl holds all Free in high esteem, including Free Women...she enjoys hearing the Free chat about Their views... It's one of her favorite things...her Master's word and orders come above all else, but she is ever eager to please all Free
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:12:16 pm CST
Mistress Lita, flicka has already addressed that question, but to recap, as far as flicka is concerned all Free Men are equal. Flicka loves her Jarl to bits, but she would interact and respect with no Free Man in any less of a way than she would interact and respect her Jarl, for she loves all Masters.
Free Women are a little more problematic. ~little smile~ It is the Gorean way for Free Women to not particularly like slaves, and often to treat them cruelly. Flicka will show Free Women respect and interact with them, but she will not love them as she loves all Masters and especially her Jarl.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:12:50 pm CST
*nods to flicka
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:14:38 pm CST
no flicka, it is not the same feeling with FW, but she has become very fond of the only One she knows well, Mistress Lita...totally different kind of fondness though
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:15:37 pm CST
~smiling at mistress snow~ aye flicka also. ~whispers wickedly~ could not imagine furring with the Mistress though.
Lita, Physician 20:15:50 pm CST
wEll flicka, the question was not so much about how slaves feel about Free Men and Free Women, but how they feel about Their words. I think it is referring to how much respect and obedience they give a Free Person's words, depending Who They are.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:15:56 pm CST
*chuckles
FireStorm 20:16:43 pm CST
If I might interject here, does it really matter what your feelings are for the Free Woman?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:18:09 pm CST
no Mistress FireSstorm, probably not...she was just replying to the question..she wouldn't normally offer that information
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:19:49 pm CST
Mistress FireStorm, You are correct, no it does not matter one iota.
Mistress Lita, true flicka was sidetracked, flicka heeds always the words of a Free Person, whether it be Master or Mistress, They hold the power of happiness over flicka. But even more than that, They are Free Persons and flicka is slave, They are to be respected and heeded and naturally obeyed.
Tanthio§ 20:25:56 pm CST
*takes a seat on My furs listening*
FireStorm 20:27:30 pm CST
Is it possible to repost the original questions as they have disappeared at the bottom of the forum? Much thanks
Lita, Physician 20:28:01 pm CST
Questions
1) Free Men and Free Women are supposed to be heard and heeded. Do you demand this of slaves, whether you own them or not and why or why not?
2) Slaves, how do you feel about a Man's words? Does it matter if he is not your Owner? How about a Free Woman's words?
3) When in rp and the room is busy, how do you decide who to pay most attention to?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:30:11 pm CST
may flicka address the first question, with a question of her own?
What Master or Mistress would tolerate a slave not heeding or obeying any lawful command They may give?
FireStorm 20:31:41 pm CST
One who is perhaps unsure of their station .......
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:32:12 pm CST
None that this girl knows flicka
Tanthio§ 20:32:39 pm CST
That would depend on their level of training flicka
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:33:15 pm CST
none that I am aware of flicka ... none
Dak 20:33:47 pm CST
strangely, flicka I have been told to just put up with whatever
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:33:54 pm CST
Tanthios, I;d never tolerate regardless of training that would only come to bear regarding punishment
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:34:40 pm CST
~nods~ Mistress FireStorm, and "aye there's the rub"
For we slaves in many ways it is easy, do as you are told, smile, be obedient, be willing and always happy.
But for a Free Person it must be much harder. Flicka does not know she has never been Free.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:35:36 pm CST
~listens to the Free Persons discussing what They know.~
Lita, Physician 20:36:04 pm CST
So what if the command the Free Person gives is for something that has been prohibited by one's M aster or MIstress. Then what?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:37:22 pm CST
then she politely and respectfully informs the Free of her Master's rules, and asks if she can be of any other service?
Tanthio§ 20:37:34 pm CST
So a girl that's been in Gor for a week should get the same treatment as a seasoned slut? Maybe 10 years ago but this day and age were lucky to have them sick around. Just My opinion.
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:38:12 pm CST
Tanthio§ aye
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:38:12 pm CST
then the slave obeys her Master's wishes if she displeases the Free, then He or She can take it up with the slave's Master or Mistress
Dak 20:38:44 pm CST
that is supposedly the reason GS has a slave manual so Masters know what to expect from slaves, but lately, it doesn't seem that way,
Tanthio§ 20:38:59 pm CST
So a girl that's been in Gor for a week should get the same treatment as a seasoned slut? Maybe 10 years ago but this day and age were lucky to have them stick around. Just My opinion.
Ramses, Captain of GS 20:39:02 pm CST
Tanthios, I specifically said she would be treated according to her training but the issue would not just "slide"
Bretval, Merchant 20:39:22 pm CST
They don't, Tanthios
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:39:50 pm CST
Mistress as flicka said, "lawful command" that was to encompass anything prohibited by her Jarl, but also would hold true for GS slaves, the rules for them are fully spelt out in the manuals.
And Mistress, with a smile to mistress snowrose and a nod to her absent Jarl, that is where a slave's training and experience come into play, in being able to explain to a Master or Mistress the how and the why a slave cannot comply with a certain command. Do it in a way that is filled with respect and an in no way attempts to diminish the Free Person.
Dak 20:40:21 pm CST
no, I don't think that is the idea, either, Tanthios , allowance are made for new slaves learning
Tanthio§ 20:41:09 pm CST
Nods to Ramses & Bretval
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:42:19 pm CST
she thinks more slaves leave because they are not made to obey..true slaves need that firmness...crave it...dilettantes will leave in any case
Tanthio§ 20:42:30 pm CST
Nods to Dak, then I Agree with the none flicka.
FireStorm 20:43:33 pm CST
I've not yet have a girl feel the need to refuse, even politely, a command given. That must be a very difficult position to be in for the girl. Does this actually happen very often, or is this more a theoretical discussion?
Tanthio§ 20:43:44 pm CST
Well said snowrose
Dak 20:44:09 pm CST
but all slaves should serve and do positions to the level of their silks always regardless of restrictions !
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:44:16 pm CST
agrees wholeheartedly with mistress snowrose, flicka loves to feel the strictness of Masters, flicka grows when she is under a firm hand.
Tanthio§ 20:45:12 pm CST
Discussion purpose FireStorm
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:45:37 pm CST
no Mistress FireStorm...In her experience, it is almost always a Visitor who is unfamiliar with Gor in general
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 20:46:18 pm CST
smiling at FireStorm,, it has happenned in my time here,, and more than one Free has been banned for asking of the slaves things that are against our rules
Bretval, Merchant 20:46:55 pm CST
so a Master's restrictions are to be ignored, Dak? Then there are no rules and anything goes
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:47:04 pm CST
~flushes a little~ Mistress FireStorm, flicka is restricted by her Jarl from furring with Any Masters Who are not pledged to Gorean Shores.
If a visiting Master requested that service from flicka she would have to refuse Him, it has happened, and flicka is still serving that Master.
Dak 20:47:45 pm CST
hell no, but His slave should serve to the level of their silks !
Dak 20:49:13 pm CST
why have red or yellow silk slaves serving like a white silk !
FireStorm 20:49:51 pm CST
Well put flicka - a bit different from what I'd ask of a girl, so quite understandable. In my opinion, if the Free that makes such a request does not have the integrity to honor that restriction, they are not worthy of being called Gorean.
Bretval, Merchant 20:50:11 pm CST
Ideally... but that is up to the Owner, Dak
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:50:12 pm CST
snowrose too may not kneel as a pleasure slave or serve in the furs with an unpledged Free Man, without her Master's prior approval
Tanthio§ 20:51:02 pm CST
Looks and nods to FireStorm
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:51:09 pm CST
Thank You for leading Master Ramses..she wishes You well
Dak 20:51:47 pm CST
well, when I came to GS 12 years ago, that was the rule, and about the only restriction Masters ever put on a slave was whether they were available for use !
Lita, Physician 20:54:06 pm CST
sorry , part of My post got eaten. So are you saying, Dak, that a Master cannot or should not have a red silk slave and then prohibit her from servig sexually? Even as a punishment?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:54:19 pm CST
that is snow's only restriction Master and only to the unpledged...she may not kneel with parted thighs because it seems to offer what she cannot at that time deliver
Dak 20:55:10 pm CST
no, they may restrict them from use, but they still serve to the silk level
Dak 20:56:36 pm CST
well, if they hadn't don way with the palms up and palms down that it would have been self explanatory
Lita, Physician 20:58:17 pm CST
Have we done away with the palms up, palms down?
Tanthio§ 20:58:32 pm CST
Well the few Owned only seem to come around when their Owners are online is what I've noticed
Dak 20:59:09 pm CST
oh yes, and it was a mistake, now you have them kneeling in tower !
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:00:08 pm CST
palms is something that will be addressed on the webpages as it is updated.. yellow or red silk GS slave must
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:00:09 pm CST
Master Dak, a girl is a little confused, please correct her if she is misunderstanding. A yellow silk girl is trained to serve sexually as is a red silk girl.
If flicka is reading You aright, You are saying that You do not restrict Your girls from serving to their silk levels?
But then You say that they may restrict them but still have them serve to their silk levels. May a girl ask how?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:00:29 pm CST
always be available...
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:01:33 pm CST
only white silk GS slaves kneel in tower Master Dak...they are in training and unavailable for use
Dak 21:02:29 pm CST
well, just becuz they are unable to serve sexually , doesn't mean they can't give a Master the delight of seeing her in all her sensual sexuality, and I think most Goreans are mature enough to appreciate that !
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:03:05 pm CST
~eyes lowered not looking at Master Tanthio§ ~ Master flicka is here a lot without her Jarl, as is mistress snowrose.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:03:18 pm CST
that has always been the rule for white silks since snowrose has been here Master
Bretval, Merchant 21:04:30 pm CST
Thanks, snow... I thought I must have missed a change or two... glad to see I did not
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:04:32 pm CST
oh Master Tanthios, snowrose is here far ore often without her Master...and He has offered her for use many times when He is here
Gabby 21:05:02 pm CST
I seem to have killed my chat window, and it won't let me log with my previous name. FireStorm returns.
I'm not entirely familiar with all the levels of silk. Would someone mind posting them?
Dak 21:05:41 pm CST
I am well aware of that, snow, but I think whether slves here are tavern owned or privately owned, they should serve to their silk level, Gorean Masters are not to be so jealous their slaves can't be free to serve to their silk levels !
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 21:07:11 pm CST
well that is a subject for only the Free to discuss Master Dak ...she will say no more
Dak 21:09:36 pm CST
it used t be a rule here !
Tanthio§ 21:09:42 pm CST
Looks to flicka. Yes girl I know you are as snowrose is as I know her Owners restrictions as well *s*
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:11:03 pm CST
~smiles at Master Tanthio§, having a deep warmness in her heart for Him~
Dak 21:17:18 pm CST
well, since it is late, I will call the forum to close, and than all for coming and joining in a lively debate, *smiles*
thanks flicka for scribing
flicka-slave of Keeper 21:18:24 pm CST
~laughing~ Thank You Master Dak.
Master Jackson, greetings and welcome to the forum which has now finished.
OriginalSandman_Builder/ Sr. Captain of GS 21:18:27 pm CST
thank you Dak and thank you flicka