Present:
Original Sandman
Ramses
Dak
Bretval
Jondalar
Lita
shimmer
maddie-anne
ruby
zoya
aatira
snowrose
Dak 19:46:11 pm CDT
I have a topic, so will open the Forum, same rules, keep greetings and chit chat to whispers for the benefit of the scribe,
*smiles*,
Today's Topic
Choices, Honor, "Getting it"
Quotes For This Week
"But the Goreans have a saying, which came to me in the darkness, in the hall,
"Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live; they cannot tell you; they do not have tongues;
do not ask the wise man how to live, for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you;
if you would learn how to live, do not ask the question; its answer is not in the question but in the answer,
which is not in words; do not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so."
~ {Marauders of Gor - 9}
"It is seldom wise to impugn, or attempt to manipulate, the honour of a Gorean." ~ Players of gor
"Women, I suspected, even proud, beautiful, intelligent women like Elizabeth Cardwell, secretly wish their men to be strong, and upon occasion to prove it to them, commanding them as mere females, giving them no choice but to do precisely as he wishes."
- Assassins of Gor, p 177
"The Goreans claim that in each woman there is a free companion, proud and beautiful, worthy and noble, and in each, too, a slave girl. The companion seeks for her companion; the slave girl for her master. It is further said, that on the couch, the Gorean girl, whether slave or free, who has had the experience, who has tried all loves, begs for a master.
She wishes to belong completely to a man, withholding nothing, permitted to withhold nothing. And, of course, of all women, only a slave girl can truly belong to a man, only a slave girl can be truly his, in all ways, utterly, totally, completely, his, selflessly, at his mercy, his ecstatic slave, helpless and joyous in the total submission which she is given no choice but to yield."
- Hunters of Gor, p 122
"Choice" is a word often taken from the BSDM/"soi" side and implanted into the Gorean world."
"In one sense there is always choice here as many argue persuasively: ignore function, pay to be here, etc. And in that context I agree, but it seems to Me such choice is ALWAYS and "entry" issue and not an "in play" issue. I choose to enter Gor (or follow Someone here). I choose to enter a capture/kill room or not. AFTER that choice many "choices" end. It then I think becomes a matter of honor. There is nothing "dishonorable" about choosing not to enter Gor or a capture / kill room. But making choice an issue INSIDE such play IS."
- Lionheart of Old@soi
Questions
1) When you make a choice in your rp, how do you deal with unexpected consequences?
2) The honor is in the service not in whether it is a man or a woman a slave serves.
Agree or disagree and why?
3) Can you hang on to a choice you made too long just for the concept of honor?
Explain.
4) What is total submission?
Ramses 19:47:56 pm CDT
I think I'd need and example of unexpected consequence
Lita, Physician 19:54:04 pm CDT
Ramses. every choice we make in life can have unexpected consequences. Some of my friends, for example, went to a recent camping event in Mississippi. Most of them took bottled water to drinks. However many of them, though they drank bottled water, CHOSE to b rush their teeth with the water on site. Because of that choice, they became seriously ill, some to the point of being hospitalized. The tests run on those hospitalized is what revealed the micro-organixm causing the illness, and proved it was from the water, not bad food or something else. The unexpected consequences can also occur with choices we make on0-line as well.
ruby~{Randolph} 19:56:47 pm CDT
#4
imho...total submission..is slavehood vs submissive...one turns themselves over to the Master..there is no choice or negotiation...all decisions are made..thus in concept no worry..in other words a feeling of freedom is felt..at least for this slut
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 19:59:23 pm CDT
snowrose agrees with ruby. To her, a submissive is truly the one in control of the situation, but a slave opens herself completely, in all her vulnerability.
Lita, Physician 20:01:36 pm CDT
snowrose, the matter of choice and Honor applies to the Free as well. Unexpected things can happen in roleplay, and the Free have to make the CHOICE as to whether to honor the role-play and play it out, or choose NOT TO honor the role-play, and change characters, leave, or something else.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:03:07 pm CDT
Yes Mistress...she can understand that.
ruby~{Randolph} 20:03:26 pm CDT
indeed mistress snowrose..in a submissive relationship there a ~stop~ codes..not so in slavery..thus the submissive holds the control
ruby~{Randolph} 20:05:40 pm CDT
that said..to a slave..a submissive would be seen as a ~ shudders~… " princess"
Lita, Physician 20:06:12 pm CDT
A recent example I heard of, the High Jarl of a room was captured, and ransom was demanded. After the ransom was paid, the Jarl was killed. now he has a choice. Will he honor the role-play, or come back as himself. Will He come back as another character to the same room, and if so will He expect to have all the positions and honors and so on as He did before? And one of the slaves who was demanded as ransom by the other room chose to shelve her character rather than honor the role-play.
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:09:16 pm CDT
did nothing happen to the dishonorable Person who reneged on His word? she means if the killing was a result of dishonor, was it valid?
ruby~{Randolph} 20:12:05 pm CDT
at GS..girl has the understanding that the Council..has the final decision if the Death..Free or slave..correct?.. in essence the jury
Lita, Physician 20:12:13 pm CDT
I don't know, snow. I'm not up on the details, and the role-play may not be entirely finished yet.
Lita, Physician 20:12:43 pm CDT
yes, ruby
ruby~{Randolph} 20:18:15 pm CDT
if the Death is considered well-founded..then imagines They leave the Gor site and/ or find another..to just change a Name would not seem Honorable..in this ones eyes
Dak 20:20:07 pm CDT
I would assume, possibly, because they dishonored the ransom deal, that maybe he killing was not justified and life went on since it s roleplay !
Ramses 20:23:50 pm CDT
thank you Lita
I am not sure that the honorable course of action in your example is to honor the role play
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:24:24 pm CDT
she doesn't think that death would be deemed valid. In a fair fight to the death, yes, but not that
Lita, Physician 20:24:56 pm CDT
So anyway, those are some examples of the choices we make every day in role-play, and how much depends on honor, etc.
Ramses 20:25:01 pm CDT
I have to agree with snow
Lita, Physician 20:25:53 pm CDT
That's kind of my point, 'Ramses. Honor and Choices are not always easy.
Bretval, Merchant 20:26:20 pm CDT
Impossible to judge without all the details... but as it was presented I would agree with Dak ... why lose a good character over someone elses dishonor
ruby~{Randolph} 20:26:23 pm CDT
the Council, Ubar, Tatrix, etc..has the final word, if the death was credible..was that the case Mistress Lita?
Dak 20:27:12 pm CDT
unless that was a coup by other members of the Home, *smiles*
Lita, Physician 20:28:25 pm CDT
But the Ubar/High Jarl of which room, ruby? And as I said, this situation has not played out completely yet, so I don't know what will happen. Or if what does happen will be on the side of Honor.
ruby~{Randolph} 20:29:36 pm CDT
agrees mistress snowrose..perhaps the best solution..exile with no bread or salt..thus banished
Lita, Physician 20:29:45 pm CDT
No, two separate Homes, Dak
Dak 20:30:33 pm CDT
yes, but memebrs of the Jarl's home may have set that up to rid themselves of the Jarl
ruby~{Randolph} 20:32:01 pm CDT
Mistress Lita
girl is unfamiliar with Jag/soi
Lita, Physician 20:32:08 pm CDT
I suppose that's possible, Dak, though He has had that room and been High Jarl there for 15 years. Even so, again, the matter of Honor arises there.
Lita, Physician 20:33:11 pm CDT
ruby, the discussion topic came from JAG But the example I am giving is from another site entirely. A site where my nephew goes.
Bretval, Merchant 20:33:39 pm CDT
As I said... cannot judge without all the facts... and personally I don't care about other Homes... only My own
Dak 20:33:50 pm CDT
aye, but as we have seen in the books not everything was done according to Honor, *smiles*
ruby~{Randolph} 20:34:28 pm CDT
Master Dak
a mutiny..so to speak??
Dak 20:35:16 pm CDT
sure, ruby
Lita, Physician 20:36:25 pm CDT
True, Bretval. However,. it doesn't hurt to think about things like that, in case something similar might come up. One never knows. And yes, Dak, not everything in the books was done by honor, but behaving honorably was the general goal. And where people in the books behaved without honor, they usually came to no good end.
Dak 20:37:37 pm CDT
well, I guess that remains to be seen in this situation !
Lita, Physician 20:39:03 pm CDT
And Bretval, while we rarely deal with folks from other Homes here at GS, that does not mean we would never have to, and it doesn't hurt to consider that.
Lita, Physician 20:39:30 pm CDT
True, Dak
Bretval, Merchant 20:44:10 pm CDT
True, Lita *s* I remember when you were killed by a stranger... but My honor is the same VT or RT so I do not spend a lot of time worrying about it
Lita, Physician 20:46:35 pm CDT
True Bretval. However, there is a difference between worrying about something unnecessarily, and wise planning ahead for possibilities. For example, I work, for the Red Cross, and while we do not want to have people agonizing constantly over what to do in case of fire, flood, tornado, blizzard, etc. We do try to encourage them to make up preparedness kits just in case.
Jon 20:46:58 pm CDT
Taking My seat and reading and listening!
Jon 20:49:50 pm CDT
If I might ask..Has Captain Sandman been in this eve?
Dak 20:50:45 pm CDT
aye, He was here earlier and had to leave becuz of an RTI !
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 20:50:54 pm CDT
Yes Master Jondalar, but a r/t issue took Him away
Jon 20:51:05 pm CDT
nodding. Thank you Dak!
Bretval, Merchant 20:51:24 pm CDT
I agree with that Lita... but I am still alive because I try to think ahead ... and react correctly when surprised
Jon 20:52:19 pm CDT
Bretval..I think the same My Friend!
Lita, Physician 20:54:29 pm CDT
Alas, it is time for Me to go. Got a hectic day tomorrow.
Dak 21:08:16 pm CDT
well, if there is nothing else on this topic, I will close the Forum this evening
ruby~{Randolph} 21:09:41 pm CDT
thank You Master Dak for leading
misress snowrose for scribing
Dak 21:10:30 pm CDT
the forum is closed, I thank all for attending and participating.
thanks snowrose for scribing !
snowrose{JTr}'s pleasure~GS~fg 21:10:35 pm CDT
snowrose thanks You leading Master Dak..
And thanks Mistress Lita for the interesting topic