Present:
Thadron Dak
Kazar
Keeper
Lita
snowrose
lilith
hulya
ayala
bria
flicka
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:51:33 pm CST
I will post again...
Forum is open...
keep greetings and social chit chat to whispers to help the scribe
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:51:54 pm CST
One of our patrons has asked a personal question to all of you-- Why Gor? What is the best thing about being Gorean? and / or How has it assisted your life outside of Gor?
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 19:54:46 pm CST
Mmmm- For Me, it has changed My relationships with people for the better, and not just flicka. I find Myself being able to deal a given situation with greater ease and less stress. More Masterful if you want to use those terms.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:54:52 pm CST
please if being Gorean is more than an online role play to you... share
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 19:55:04 pm CST
~look around~ snow was very young, very shy and insecure..she feels she has grown up here in GS...she has gained confidence that has carried over into real life
best part...the freedom to be herself, express a part of her that she can't in r/t...not yet anyway
hulya{GS} 19:55:30 pm CST
For hulya the reason she choose Gor is that she felt it could be a place for her to belong, as for the best part of Gor, it let hulya basically reinvent herself and even try things she's scared of trying in real life
Lita, Physician 19:56:34 pm CST
Well, aside from the Free Sex and Nickle Paga, the positions and attitudes of Men and Women are similar to what they were when I was very young.
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:57:12 pm CST
Within Gorean Shores it has caused flicka to think before she speaks, to consider her actions, to be more contemplative. This overflows into life outside of Gorean Shores, because it becomes a habit to be that way. This has benefited this girl in her relationships with many other people. ~chuckling~ It also makes her Jarl very happy.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 19:57:20 pm CST
It has given Me more confidence as well snowrose. OOC - Although many, many people will tell you I had too much to start with!
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:57:43 pm CST
Nodding~ I agree with you Keeper... I feel more a sense of duty to not shirk from making decisions.. and for being accountable for all I do..
lilith {GS} 19:58:32 pm CST
for lilith she has always been a shy meek girl wanting to please others with no questions...she feels like she has been a slave (to a certain degree) for longer than her time here at the Shores...
ayala {GS} 19:58:50 pm CST
For ayala… it helps her to remind her of what she is and the type of slave which she wants to be… it also helps her with her rt training, giving her ideas and motivations to be the best slave that she can be.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 19:58:58 pm CST
Oh yes, almost forgot, it makes Me very, very 'happy'; if that is what you want to call it flicka.
flicka-slave of Keeper 19:58:59 pm CST
hulya, a girl thinks that you have it. It does let you try things you would be too scared to try in real life, at first.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 19:59:03 pm CST
somebody give Lita another paga ~laughs~
a reminder of times past.. ~nods~ well said, Lita
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:00:11 pm CST
Exactly Thadron, a more defined sense of what is right and wrong in the actions that you take. Yes exactly.
Lita, Physician 20:00:14 pm CST
Thank You, Thadron. And You may drink that paga for Me. I don't wish to end the evening wearing new neck jewelry. *chuckle*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:00:28 pm CST
actually I have dealt deeper into relationships as well.....
but agree with snowrose, you can express parts of yourself you are not ready to reveal to the general public... ~grins~
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:00:56 pm CST
in r/t gives one more confidence too succeed where otherwise one might fail no quit in gor
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:02:33 pm CST
~reading the differences between what it gives to Free Persons and slaves~
There is one thing in common, it gives us confidence to be. To be ourselves, to explore, to make decisions.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:02:35 pm CST
Looking at the post, noting that is seems to help everyone in the RT world. ~Grinning~ The past did have its positive aspects that are now sadly missing Lita. The past also provides some of us with a living, and holds many lessons.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:03:28 pm CST
that's a shameless plug, Keeper ~laughs~ well said
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:04:44 pm CST
Mistress this girl thinks it would suit You. A delicate, pretty collar of course. ~smiling~ Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:05:00 pm CST
Yes flicka, it enables us to what W/we are and what we want to be without many of societies petty rules.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:05:20 pm CST
Master Thadron, aye, He thinks Everyone should be made to take History lessons all of their lives.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:05:51 pm CST
there are plenty of collars ready for whomever might need one, Lita..~chuckles~
anyone else?...
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:05:52 pm CST
Yep Thadron, completely shameless, look what Gor has done to Me!
Dak 20:06:53 pm CST
One thing I learned from Gor, is the fact, that in order to be a Master, a person must learn to Master one's self !
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:06:59 pm CST
~Chuckling~
Methinks that Lita may decline your kind offer Thadron.
Lita, Physician 20:07:40 pm CST
Alas, Keeper, the past should provide us with lessons. However, as Winston Churchhill said, “Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
lilith {GS} 20:08:01 pm CST
*chuckles quietly*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:08:29 pm CST
~nods in agreement~ you can't just call yourself Master and expect to be obeyed... Master Oneself, first... that's something for us to think about all the time
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:08:32 pm CST
~looks to Master Dak and nods~
From Shakespeare:
This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man.
hulya{GS} 20:08:43 pm CST
Very true Mistress
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:08:52 pm CST
Yes Dak that is how it has help Me in relationships.
Lita, Physician 20:08:55 pm CST
And it seems most of us fail to learn from History
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:10:12 pm CST
Lita, one of My favorite quotes. ~Grinning~
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:11:07 pm CST
I think that topic is finished....
the second topic is look at one of the lower castes... Merchant
I will first post the quotes provided...
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:11:42 pm CST
The Slavers, incidentally, are of the Merchant Caste, though, in virtue of their merchandise and practices, their robes are different. Yet, if one of them were to seek Caste Sanctuary, he would surely seek it from Slavers, and not from common Merchants. Many Slavers think of themselves as an independent caste. Gorean law, however, does not so regard them. The average Gorean thinks of them simply as Slavers, but, if questioned, would unhesitantly rank them with the Merchants.
Assassin of Gor, Page 208
The Merchants have, in the last few years, on certain trade routes, between Ar and Ko-ro-ba, and between Tor and Ar, established palisaded compounds, defensible stockades. These, where they exist, tend to be placed approximately a day's caravan march apart. Sometimes, of course, and indeed, most often, the caravan must camp in the open. Still, these hostels, where they are to be found, are welcome, both to common merchants and to slavers, and even to travelers. Various cities, through their own Merchant Castes, lease land for these stockades and, for their fees, keep their garrisons, usually men of their own cities, supplied. The stockades are governed under Merchant Law, legislated and revised, and upheld, at the Sardar Fairs.
Captive of Gor, Page 219
"I am a merchant," said Mintar, "and it is in my code to see that I am paid." I set myself to sell my life dearly. Oddly enough, my only fear was what would happen to the girl. "Kazrak of Port Kar," said Mintar, "do you agree to surrender the balance of your hiring price to Tarl of Bristol if he takes your place in my service?" "Yes," responded Kazrak. "He has done me honor and is my sword brother." Mintar seemed satisfied. He looked at me. "Tarl of Bristol," he said, "do you take service with Mintar, of the Merchant Caste?" "If I do not?" I asked. "Then I shall order my men to kill you," sighed Mintar, "and we shall both suffer a loss." "Oh, Ubar of Merchants," I said, "I would not willingly see your profits jeopardized." Mintar relaxed on the cushions and seemed pleased. I realized, to my amusement, that he had been afraid that some particle of his investment might have been sacrificed. He would have had a man killed rather than risk the loss of a tenth of a tarn disk, so well he knew the codes of his caste.
Tarnsman of Gor, Page 121
"The fairs incidentally are governed by Merchant Law and supported by booth rents and taxes levied on the items exchanged. The commercial facilities of these fairs, from money changing to general banking, are the finest I know of on Gor, save those in Ar's Street of Coins, and letters of credit are accepted and loans negotiated, though often at usurious rates, with what seems reckless indifference. Yet perhaps this is not so puzzling, for the Gorean cities will, within their own walls, enforce the Merchant Law when pertinent, even against their own citizens. If they did not, of course, the fairs would be closed to the citizens of that city."
Priest-Kings of Gor, Page 10
"I am an honest merchant," said Mintar, "and I would not cheat you, but you do well to handle your own affairs."
Tarnsman of Gor, Page 123
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:15:28 pm CST
Questions
1)What is reasonable when it comes to Merchant power and roleplay? 2)Merchant Law is one of the most powerful set of Laws in all Gor. Why? 3)Merchants are more than just shopkeepers and they have great influence in cities. How do/should city governments deal with Merchants? 4)Do Merchants fight? Explain. 5)Have a favourite quote about the Merchant Caste to share?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:18:27 pm CST
Merchant Law governs all commerce does it not?
Dak 20:19:31 pm CST
usually Merchants were amongst the wealthiest in the city
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:20:06 pm CST
what besides the Merchant Law governs how a merchant conducts himself
hulya{GS} 20:20:59 pm CST
girl has no clue
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:21:50 pm CST
We know that JN took a lot of 'inspiration' from the past, the Merchants on Gor remind Me a lot of the Guilds in Medieval Europe.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:22:20 pm CST
Here is some description about Merchants to help answer some of these questions
They have developed and help enforce Merchant Law, the only common set of laws and agreements that existing among the Gorean cities. They also are responsible for arranging and administering the four great Sardar fairs. The Merchant Caste often wield great power through their financial resources. This power may be used to gain political power as well. Influence can be gained through more than simple bribery. The extension or refusal of credit can affect a city's High Council. It can also affect public opinion.
Low Castes do not possess a right to vote. Despite this disenfranchisement though does not mean the the opinions of the Low Castes are simply ignored. Of all the Low Castes, the Merchant Caste has the greatest influence on governmental matters, such as elections. Like on Earth, money can purchase power and influence on Gor. In addition, those seeking political office realize that the Low Castes need to be appeased or there can be serious trouble. Thus, such men will try to seek the favor of the Merchants and other Low Castes.
Merchant law is the only common law that often extends among many different cities. This permits commerce to exist much more easily on Gor. There are even Merchant magistrates who administer and enforce Merchant law. These magistrates belong to the Merchant Caste and not the Scribe Caste. They wear white robes, trimmed with gold and purple. Merchant law does not cover all aspects of commerce. For example, patents and copyrights only exist on a city level and do not extend to other cities. Thus, many manufacturers, writers, and other creators may keep their materials in code to prevent theft and copying.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:22:50 pm CST
On Gor, The Merchant class is well defined, One is a member of that caste or one isn't.
It reminds this girl of the guilds of the middle ages, where knowledge was power (knowing how to make a building, ie the Mason's guild) and forming a monopoly was power, as in the Merchant Caste on Gor. It makes for a linear society, but one where everyone knows their place.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:25:21 pm CST
The political influence is no surprise. The Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold can make the rules. So the golden Rule is the same in both cultures I assume?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:25:39 pm CST
if you haven't read Tarnsman of Gor, the description of the Merchant Mintar and his caravan is pretty good...
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:26:26 pm CST
Ok flicka; great minds think alike!
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:26:41 pm CST
you can have great armies, but armies have to eat... they have to be provisioned... merchants can wield power in this way too
Lita, Physician 20:27:58 pm CST
Thadron, I would say again, as with other Castes, Honor plays a large part.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:28:12 pm CST
Master Thadron that is true, without Provisioners Your army would be naked, hungry and trying to fight with sticks and stones.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:28:52 pm CST
is honor among merchants the same as honor among warriors on Gor?
~smiles to the Lady~ good point
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:29:48 pm CST
sounds like a slave army to me, flicka ~laughs~
Lita, Physician 20:30:22 pm CST
I would guess not entirely the same, Thadron, just as Gorean ideas of Honor are a bit different than earth's ideas of honor.
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:30:48 pm CST
~softly~ flicka would say yes Master Thadron, if honour is being loyal and true to Your caste.
People may think of Merchants as less worthy than a warrior, but each has a role to play in Society.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:30:56 pm CST
They provide things within a society that make it function, food, shelter, clothing, slaves etc. That gives them, as a group, enormous power. I think of them as the lubrication that makes society work.
hulya{GS} 20:32:31 pm CST
Bet a slave army would be most effective Master, specially naked *giggles*
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:33:08 pm CST
their greatest strategy would be diversion I suppose, hulya `laughs~
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:33:12 pm CST
I would imagine honour would be as each caste defines it. Just the same as the definition of honour would reflect the society that produced that definition.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:34:12 pm CST
Yes hulya, the opposing army would put away one sword and use another perhaps?
Lita, Physician 20:35:12 pm CST
hulya, if there were a slave army, most of them would be male slaves, so being naked would have little or no effect.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:35:19 pm CST
Yes, I know, that was appalling.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:35:51 pm CST
"I am a merchant," said Mintar, "and it is in my code to see that I am paid."
I agree Keeper, here Mintar describes how honor for a Merchant would involve not being cheated... so the honor for a caste is defined in their codes
Lita, Physician 20:36:18 pm CST
And there have been armies in history, composed entirely of Men, who DID fight naked.
hulya{GS} 20:37:52 pm CST
Oh, girl was thinking of an all female army Mistress
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:37:56 pm CST
True Mistress, but they still had to be fed and have weapons, and they did have blankets to sleep in.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:39:14 pm CST
why would they be naked...were they poor
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:39:34 pm CST
So honour for a merchant involves money of course and the way you conduct business. Just as honour for, say, a warrior would involve weaponry and the what you conduct your self in battle.
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:39:44 pm CST
like an uprising?
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:40:00 pm CST
"Mintar relaxed on the cushions and seemed pleased. I realized, to my amusement, that he had been afraid that some particle of his investment might have been sacrificed. He would have had a man killed rather than risk the loss of a tenth of a tarn disk, so well he knew the codes of his caste."
Tarnsman of Gor pg 121
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:40:39 pm CST
The Scots covered themselves in blue dye and ran into battle naked, scared the hell out of the Romans!
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:41:26 pm CST
Mistress were You thinking of the Scots and the Picts, they often fought naked, they painted themselves blue in order to terrify their enemy.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:41:54 pm CST
are slavers Merchants?
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:42:09 pm CST
sheesh Jarl Keeper, are You a mind reader? ~laughing~
Lita, Physician 20:42:55 pm CST
hulya, there were a lot of male slaves on Gor, despite their belief it was better for a man to die than be enslaved. The rowers of the boats were male slaves, the workers in the salt mines were male slaves, and so on. As women on Gor were taught to be submissive to Men, both slaves and Free Women, it would have been extremely unlikely that anyone would have been able to muster a whole female army. Even in Tharna, which was ruled by women, the "fighters" were male.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:43:50 pm CST
Yes Kazar; That can be a problem with codifying rules etc. your can get caught up in minor problems that can become life and death, were a more Laissez-faire approach would avoid that conflict. Mind you Goreans don't seem to mind a bit of conflict!
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:45:04 pm CST
if anyone has anything else to discuss, whisper it to Me now...
Kazar~infamous pirate 20:45:05 pm CST
Keeper aye ~~ always conflict
Lita, Physician 20:45:48 pm CST
Roman historians recorded that the Gaesatae fought naked in the battles in the Po Valley in Italy in the Cisalpine War.
Julius Caesar records in his account of the Gallic War that the Gauls went into battle naked save for their weapons.
Sometimes the soldiers wore no clothing but were covered in war paint, a custom that allegedly gave the Picts their name.
The Celts that invaded Italy in the 4th Century BC fought naked, as did the Gaesati ... Because they had not enough armors for their armies.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:46:45 pm CST
The caste colors for the Merchant are Gold/White, and for the slaver are blue and yellow...
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:47:56 pm CST
Master Thadron, a girl is now confused, a girl thought that Slavers were members of the Merchant Caste. Is it that they are a sub class?
snowrose{JTr}~GS~fg 20:48:01 pm CST
Slavers are of the Merchant Caste..but wear different colors
flicka-slave of Keeper 20:49:03 pm CST
ah thank You mistress snowrose.
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:49:04 pm CST
Although Thadron, it sounds like the two Castes did co-operate a lot, more so I would imagine than other Castes, because in the end, they are both traders.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:49:07 pm CST
Slavers wear robes of blue and yellow. They also frequently shave their heads and are considered a subcaste of the Merchants.
The Slavers, incidentally, are of the Merchant caste, though, in virtue of their merchandise and practices, their robes are different....
---Assassin of Gor, 15:208
Samos wore the blue and yellow robes of the Slaver....
---Hunters of Gor, 1:7
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:49:20 pm CST
you are correct, snowrose and flicka
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:49:29 pm CST Ah, nodding.
Lita, Physician 20:49:43 pm CST
Thadron, regarding Slavers being of the Merchant Caste:
"The Slavers, incidentally, are of the Merchant Caste, though, in virtue of their merchandise and practices, their robes are different. Yet, if one of them were to seek Caste Sanctuary, he would surely seek it from Slavers, and not from common Merchants. Many Slavers think of themselves as an independent caste. Gorean law, however, does not so regard them. The average Gorean thinks of them simply as Slavers, but, if questioned, would unhesitantly rank them with the Merchants.
Assassin of Gor, Page 208"
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:50:25 pm CST
thank you Lita...
Keeper- The Keeper of flicka 20:50:43 pm CST
Still nodding.
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:51:21 pm CST
any further questions or comments about merchants?
Thadron - Captain/Slave Master 20:54:30 pm CST
I thank you all then for splendid discussions tonight. thanks to the scribe... BR> Forum is closed....